Do you think weeping is a necessary aspect of spiritual devotion?

Ecclesiastian · Apr 29, 2019

If you read the Old Testament, and at times the New Testament as well, you see a lot of weeping over the lost, over sin, etc. This is a subject I haven't heard commented on much from my own pastors, though my current pastor weeps much, but in listening to pastors online I've heard them treat being dispositioned to weep over sin as a sign of a healthy spiritual life. This has me a bit concerned.

I agree that it is a prevalent theme in Scripture, and that genuine weeping can aid in repentance, but is someone necessarily a weak Christian if they don't weep? What about those who have trouble conveying emotions and the like? Even for myself, I have only wept a select few times in my life, and it was after much, much, much build-up. And one of those times it wasn't even over something negative. When I commit a grievous sin, I sometimes want to cry, but I can't. Does this kind of thing reflect a hull breach in one's Christian faith, do you suppose?

Do you consider weeping to be a vital aspect of the spiritual walk?

SpiritSong · Apr 29, 2019

One time I had not weeped or sobbed in several years. I just could not cry at all. My pastor KNEW this! However, when I did finally weep and sob in church for about 20 minutes uncontrollably during a Wednesday evening service, when only staff of the church were there, even so, he kicked me out of that church for making a disturbance! I had been sobbing because my father had just died and though I had tried to bring him to Jesus, I was not sure if I had succeeded.

Everyone I have told this story to has been shocked! I was too. I did not regret leaving that church. I kicked off the dust from my feet and found another church that accepted me.

worshipjunkie · Apr 29, 2019

Ecclesiastian said:
If you read the Old Testament, and at times the New Testament as well, you see a lot of weeping over the lost, over sin, etc. This is a subject I haven't heard commented on much from my own pastors, though my current pastor weeps much, but in listening to pastors online I've heard them treat being dispositioned to weep over sin as a sign of a healthy spiritual life. This has me a bit concerned.

I agree that it is a prevalent theme in Scripture, and that genuine weeping can aid in repentance, but is someone necessarily a weak Christian if they don't weep? What about those who have trouble conveying emotions and the like? Even for myself, I have only wept a select few times in my life, and it was after much, much, much build-up. And one of those times it wasn't even over something negative. When I commit a grievous sin, I sometimes want to cry, but I can't. Does this kind of thing reflect a hull breach in one's Christian faith, do you suppose?

Do you consider weeping to be a vital aspect of the spiritual walk?

I hope not or I'm screwed. I've never been a person who cries easily over spiritual things, but the treatment for my depression has made it much worse; I barely cry over anything at all anymore. I miss that release but I don't miss the crippling depression, so it's a trade off I'm willing to make.

I think personality, upbringing, life situations, even medication can affect how easily you cry. Then there is others who can cry at the drop of a hat and it doesn't necessarily turn into any meaningful change in their life. Everyone is different in their makeup.

JCFantasy23 · May 2, 2019

Weeping was used to show grief and pain in the OT -- we know a person can be having as much emotion even if they aren't able to weep for whatever reason now. I don't think it's a requirement of spiritual devotion, but I do think we all will eventually come to the point of tears during prayer.

RDKirk · May 2, 2019

A large part of what we read about that in the OT is cultural...and still is for people in that region.

That said, there should be epiphanous moments in years of relationship with God that are powerful enough to evoke strong emotional response.

~Anastasia~ · May 2, 2019

There is often an association between tears and repentance. And repentance is vital.

But I don't think we can say a person could not possibly repent without tears? I don't know. They come for me. But I can't see anyone else's heart.

JCFantasy23 · May 7, 2019

~Anastasia~ said:
But I don't think we can say a person could not possibly repent without tears? I don't know. They come for me. But I can't see anyone else's heart.

I'm not sure why repentance would be surprising without tears. Tears don't mean genuineness or heartfelt emotion in all cases, and not everyone cries easily when it comes to their-selves. My tears come easily in grief or when I'm crying for other people's needs other than my own, but I feel plenty of emotion without crying and most of my prayer is done that way.

~Anastasia~ · May 7, 2019

JCFantasy23 said:
I'm not sure why repentance would be surprising without tears. Tears don't mean genuineness or heartfelt emotion in all cases, and not everyone cries easily when it comes to their-selves.

Well I might not have used the word "surprising" because it is common. But that was kind of my point.

JCFantasy23 · May 7, 2019

~Anastasia~ said:
Well I might not have used the word "surprising" because it is common. But that was kind of my point.

I was just editing to clarify.

I'm not sure what you mean on it not being common being your point. God wants us to come to Him with honesty. I see plenty of people cry where they aren't actually repenting - it's a popular form of manipulation for many. If a person doesn't cry when they repent, they shouldn't feel guilty if that is not natural for them to do - God wants the honesty first and foremost.

brinny · May 7, 2019

Tears are part of great sadness, tragedy, sorrow, inconsolable grief, heartbreak, and inexplicable pain, brokenness, and loss, even if they are unable to be expressed via actual tears. In that regard, we can relate to Jesus Christ Himself, when He wept.

Also in that regard, how can we NOT weep when the realization hits us, that we have grieved a Holy God and been such an abomination to Him, and how He, though we do not "deserve" it, He pours out His mercy, grace, and forgiveness onto us, along with giving us a "new heart", as our"heart of stone" is transformed?

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh." ~Ezek 36:26

~Anastasia~ · May 7, 2019

JCFantasy23 said:
I was just editing to clarify.

I'm not sure what you mean on it not being common being your point. God wants us to come to Him with honesty. I see plenty of people cry where they aren't actually repenting - it's a popular form of manipulation for many. If a person doesn't cry when they repent, they shouldn't feel guilty if that is not natural for them to do - God wants the honesty first and foremost.

Maybe it's a difference in our experiences.

I'm not sure what sort of background you have or what kind of Church you attend? I was once a part of a very weepy sort of congregations, and in that case, I would agree that you really have no idea what sort of actual feelings are behind the tears.

I think it was my mistake - I usually get notifications for TAW and anyway, I read it within the context of Orthodoxy. There is much talk about "tears and repentance" through history. And having had the kinds of encounters where we are encouraged to be aware of our sin so that we can turn from it, and in the face of a Holy God (Who it is heartbreaking to know that we grieve Him) ... well, it's just quite naturally all tied together in my mind. Not so much in a public context though, if that's what you're thinking. So maybe we are imagining different scenarios.

~Anastasia~ · May 7, 2019

Oh, and I meant that it is common for tears to accompany repentance. But not like they are the sole measure of true repentance - only God sees the heart. It is possible to repent without tears I suppose. Some people have even asked elders because they feared their repentance was not real without tears. But there are "tears" that happen inside as well.

But great repentance or ongoing repentance is very often associated with tears, even ongoing tears.

A Shield of Turquoise · May 30, 2019

A lot of ancient Christian spiritual writers talk about "the gift of tears." That's what it is- a gift from God. Think of it that way when it accompanies true compunction, as an expression of grace, and don't cling for it.

Augustus_33AD · Jun 19, 2019

Weeping is all fine and dandy but it doesn't mean much.

Blade · Jul 10, 2019

Tears can be one way of how God is working.. as in deliverance for one. I don't believe I have ever watched someone that is not crying for what ever reason as weak. There could be something there as to why.. or nothing at all. But weaker? Never.

For me.. since I was little.. always wanted to see through His eyes.. how He sees people. His heart on and on. I try to stop.. think about why I cry so easy and "compassion" comes back but. Just reading the bible.. parts.. I will start to cry. All my life.. I looked at things.. "what if it was me"... So its like I feel what they are feeling. I can watch a silly show and any touching parts.. My wife wanting to go see some movies..most.. Lol I wont go. I feel stupid.. I will cry. Its like I just tune in to them.. I feel..be it sad or joy.

Never really liked it at 1st.. but now.. I always pray.. after this life.. don't take this from me. And me? On the outside you would never guess I even cry.

bèlla · Jul 12, 2019

My tears are often the result of love, awe, and gratitude. I was never subject to excessive guilt or self-recrimination. I confess but I don’t wallow in shame or self-pity.

Aabbie James · Jul 16, 2019

Ecclesiastian said:
Do you consider weeping to be a vital aspect of the spiritual walk?

God's Word says there is a time to weep... a time to laugh, mourn, and dance... (Ecclesiastes 3:4)

Based on Scripture, I trust that whenever I'm moved to tears, the Holy Spirit of God is present as I embrace, in tears of joy, an old friend whom I haven't seen for a season; or grieve in sadness, over the loss of a dear loved one; or weep whenever I witness human tragedy.

We should also be comforted that (Revelation 21:4) "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."

Romans 8 has several passages about living in the Life in the Spirit, our "spiritual walk" as you say.

The Holy Spirit is our helper:

He is the go-between who takes us out of a place of slavery and fear and brings us into a place of adoption and acceptance.
He helps us to cry out to God as Father.
He testifies with our spirit that we are children of God.

When God gives the sinner a new heart of flesh, with that comes a greater love for others, a greater compassion for others, more love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. All of these, fruit of the Spirit, pour out of us, because we are in Christ, and He is in us.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 25, 2019

QUOTE="Ecclesiastian, post: 73901145, member: 417850"]If you read the Old Testament, and at times the New Testament as well, you see a lot of weeping over the lost, over sin, etc. This is a subject I haven't heard commented on much from my own pastors, though my current pastor weeps much, but in listening to pastors online I've heard them treat being dispositioned to weep over sin as a sign of a healthy spiritual life. This has me a bit concerned.

I agree that it is a prevalent theme in Scripture, and that genuine weeping can aid in repentance, but is someone necessarily a weak Christian if they don't weep? What about those who have trouble conveying emotions and the like? Even for myself, I have only wept a select few times in my life, and it was after much, much, much build-up. And one of those times it wasn't even over something negative. When I commit a grievous sin, I sometimes want to cry, but I can't. Does this kind of thing reflect a hull breach in one's Christian faith, do you suppose?

Do you consider weeping to be a vital aspect of the spiritual walk?[/QUOTE

I think there is a reason when someone should cry, or wants to cry, and can't or doesn't.

I think this is explained very simply throughout Scripture, but often perhaps not in the usual English versions. (A word study, or expanded Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek from the original might help a lot to see this).

Weeping audibly is required in life, and for life, according to what is written (more than a few times) somewhere in Scripture (it has been too long since I saw this to remember at this moment where it is in Scripture; a search in the Blue Letter Bible online might be useful, but I haven't checked it out for this yet. Hebrew Word Studies, and Greek Word Studies, in the past, showed quite a bit more than the plain English reveals.)

A similar analogy might be "blushing" - as the Creator says "My people have forgotten how to blush" (this is not a good thing! - it is His rebuke/ chastisement)

Do you think weeping is a necessary aspect of spiritual devotion?

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