Do you think it's Christian to own guns?

expos4ever · Nov 22, 2015

nomadictheist said:
Clearly, from the other items that taking a sword is combined with, it has nothing to do with Jesus' being "numbered with the transgressors."

Deleted own post.

Sheeple Shepherd · Nov 22, 2015

malvina said:
That's a bit rich Sheeple! especially as in ancient times (and some still now) old people used to go out in the desert - or in the snow - to die when they felt they were no more use to the world even in bible times (I will have to find quotes) but this was 'is' common practice for people that have 'had enough' and see they will become a burden to their families. Why would the Lord exclude them from heaven when they have given up their lives for others? and what about the heroes that die shielding someone from a bullet etc?

Proverbs 8:36
But those who fail to find me harm themselves; all who hate me love death."

What God says.........

So, no, I don't care.

expos4ever · Nov 22, 2015

nomadictheist said:
So here's the message in a paraphrased modern vernacular nutshell...

Jesus: "Remember how I sent you out before with no money or supplies. Did you ever lack anything you needed?"
Disciples: "We always had everything we needed."
Jesus: "Well this time get your wallet and your bags, and if you don't have a sword buy one. Because, as the prophecy says, I will soon be counted as a criminal."
Disciples: "We've got two swords here."
Jesus: "Ok.".

An interesting counterargument, but I suggest it is less plausible than what I am claiming.

This is the "best" counterargument I have encountered, so I would back off from my claim in my last post (I just deleted that post, by the way) that implied that you were "simply not taking Jesus at His word.

I need to take a little time to think how to express my response to your line of reasoning. I think my overall position is something like this: While your argument is indeed plausible, it is not as good as the one I have put forward in terms of making sense of the text.

But we'll see; I will get back to you on this.

malvina · Nov 22, 2015

Error

Sheeple Shepherd · Nov 22, 2015

A transgressor of pharisiacal law, what's the problem with that?

malvina · Nov 22, 2015

Error

malvina · Nov 22, 2015

Sheeple Shepherd said:
Proverbs 8:36
But those who fail to find me harm themselves; all who hate me love death."

What God says.........

So, no, I don't care.

That isn't committing suicide and I know someone else that laid down His Life for His friends...

Sheeple Shepherd · Nov 22, 2015

Oh boy.......

People who commit suicide do not know the Father/Creator.......do not strive for LIFE.......they prefer death.

They do not belong to him.

Jeeesh........

And someone who dies while saving someone else?????? what does that have to do with suicide or guns or.........?

Sheeple Shepherd · Nov 22, 2015

I'm outta here.

I got my guns........lots of them.

I'm GTG!!!!!!!!!!!

Round and round in circles with you people........

malvina · Nov 22, 2015

Sheeple Shepherd said:
Oh boy.......

People who commit suicide do not know the Father/Creator.......do not strive for LIFE.......they prefer death.

They do not belong to him.

Jeeesh........

And someone who dies while saving someone else?????? what does that have to do with suicide or guns or.........?

You're barking up the wrong tree Sheeple

South Bound · Nov 22, 2015

Sheeple Shepherd said:
Oh boy.......

People who commit suicide do not know the Father/Creator.......do not strive for LIFE.......they prefer death.

They do not belong to him.

May you receive more grace than you show here.

nomadictheist · Nov 22, 2015

expos4ever said:
Jesus does not agree with you:

6And He said to them, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.37For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, 'And He was numbered with transgressors'; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment."

This is a clear statement that, for whatever reason, the instructions He has just given function to set up fulfillment of the prophesy that Jesus be seen as a transgressor.

I do not know if it would be possible for Jesus to be more clear about this.

You ignored the entire post... the word for has many different meanings, if you haven't noticed.

Again, I point to the items that they are instructed to take:
(1) money belt
(2) bag
(3) sword

Now there are two possible interpretations of what follows:

The first "you need to take these things because the scriptures says I'll be numbered with the transgressors, so you must become transgressors by having money belts, bags, and swords."

Or second "you need to take this things because what the scriptures say about me being counted as a criminal are about to happen, and this time you'll need supplies for food and something to deter bandits and/or defend yourself with."

Considering the items that are mentioned, the second possible interpretation is the more clear and obvious. Last I checked, it wasn't a crime to carry a money belt or a bag in ancient Rome.

Another reason to take the second interpretation is that it clashes with His earlier command to "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" as well as His command to "observe all that they (the pharisees) tell you to do, because they sit in the seat of Moses..." Jesus would not instruct His disciples to sin.

Morning Star Royal · Nov 22, 2015

Allow me to offer a different perspective. I am one of the rare ones who has stood in the presence of Christ and the Light of the Father in paradise (April 12, 1981) – an election to leadership Paul is quoted as saying is one he can respect (2 Cor 12:2-5). The Royal Law, Love, of course is the beginning of wisdom. This must be engraved in every spirit and heart first and above all else. You cannot save, rescue, and choose co-creators without using every tool to engrave, nurture, and support this first. The book of Revelation points out a beast, a highly evil conglomeration of powers that in fact plagues the world(s) today. Christians, Jews, Muslims and even Atheists, because they do not worship Satan, are being exterminated in the most part invisibally and untraceabally. This is all in the beast's agenda. The opposition has its hands around futuristic weaponry and is quite adept at possession of both the soul and systems: religion, government, science, education, military, technology, industry, money and so on. Remember the words: "Many are called, few are chosen"? Sure, the chaff is discarded, the lukewarm are spit out, but it means that though you have been saved no matter what you did, God chooses leaders who are righteous and have measured up to the highest standards of love. Friends, love is not passive or apathetic nor does it obey laws and standards that tie its hands. What you are putting on the table here is like asking if it's OK to bring a six gun from the old west to a laser battle. So the answer is "I trust my chosen with EVERYTHING"!

malvina · Nov 22, 2015

Sheeple Shepherd said:
Oh boy.......

People who commit suicide do not know the Father/Creator.......do not strive for LIFE.......they prefer death.

They do not belong to him.

Jeeesh........

And someone who dies while saving someone else?????? what does that have to do with suicide or guns or.........?

So how do you distinguish between someone that gives their lives for others and those that die to put themselves out of misery? They still do it themselves...

Sheeple Shepherd · Nov 22, 2015

South Bound said:
May you receive more grace than you show here.

Grace is Favor.

It must be compassion that you are referring to.

Let's take two positions as to what the Word says-

Jeremiah 11
The Broken Covenant
…13"For your gods are as many as your cities, O Judah; and as many as the streets of Jerusalem are the altars you have set up to the shameful thing, altars to burn incense to Baal. 14"Therefore do not pray for this people, nor lift up a cry or prayer for them; for I will not listen when they call to Me because of their disaster.15"What right has My beloved in My house When she has done many vile deeds? Can the sacrificial flesh take away from you your disaster, So that you can rejoice?"…

Here the Father states that those who do not walk in Torah, we are not to pray for them.

Now, what does he say about my brother?

1 John 5:16
If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.

Now, most people are not my brother.

expos4ever · Nov 22, 2015

nomadictheist said:
You ignored the entire post...Jesus would not instruct His disciples to sin

I concede that my first response, now deleted, was written before I read your whole post. I still think my explanation is more likely correct and I hope to carefully explain why later.

malvina · Nov 22, 2015

Sheeple Shepherd said:
I'm outta here.

I got my guns........lots of them.

I'm GTG!!!!!!!!!!!

Round and round in circles with you people........

There are plenty of books on 'Limiting God' which is exactly what you are doing
Here's one ('Limiting God by David Wilkinson) it is not the one I read which I can't find I think it was by Oswald Chambers but not sure

Sheeple Shepherd · Nov 22, 2015

malvina said:
There are plenty of books on 'Limiting God' which is exactly what you are doing
Here's one ('Limiting God by David Wilkinson) it is not the one I read which I can't find I think it was by Oswald Chambers but not sure

Yeah.....>OK........LOL

God gave me two hands, two feet, and a brain.

He expects me to use them.

Whatever.

Sheeple Shepherd · Nov 22, 2015

malvina said:
There are plenty of books on 'Limiting God' which is exactly what you are doing
Here's one ('Limiting God by David Wilkinson) it is not the one I read which I can't find I think it was by Oswald Chambers but not sure

BTW, how many Frenchies did God protect from slaughter on the 13th?

What was it? 139 dead....something like that.
BTW, many were shot at a range of 8" to the skull........basically point blank......while begging for their lives.

How many?

malvina · Nov 22, 2015

Sheeple Shepherd said:
BTW, how many Frenchies did God protect from slaughter on the 13th?

What was it? 139 dead....something like that.
BTW, many were shot at a range of 8" to the skull........basically point blank......while begging for their lives.

How many?

What's that got to do with our conversation?

Do you think it's Christian to own guns?

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