Do You Support Capital Punishment?

.Iona. · Sep 9, 2011

Taking away the life of another - is murder. You can't sugar coat it, and try to justify it.
I never understand how you can say to one person "You have done wrong by killing, so to show you that it was wrong - we're going to kill you..."

Humans did not create life, they should not take it away.

Tuddrussell · Sep 9, 2011

Can you please use the word killing? Is that so hard? When execution is abolished, then you can call it murder. Until then it is perfectally legal killing, or homicide, or life-taking... It is not murder which is a legal term.

It refers to the unlawful killing of another human being without justification or excuse.

I understand you feel stongly about this, I respect that. People are dying, and it should be unacceptable. I wish the world was perfect, and that morality was simple... However linguistics is simple, and you are doing it wrong.

quatona · Sep 9, 2011

Noelle_Faith said:
I never understand how you can say to one person "You have done wrong by killing, so to show you that it was wrong - we're going to kill you..."

While I have problems understanding this myself, I´d like to point out that pretty much every form of punishment involves this paradox: Inflicting harm on someone which - were it not for punishment - would be considered a criminal offense (e.g. incarcarating someone, taking their money against there will).

chris4243 · Sep 9, 2011

Eudaimonist said:
Has everyone gone completely mental?

Where's mental? I don't even know where it is, how can I go there?

Yes, there is a chance of dying in jail. Compare that to being executed. What are your odds of survival then?

Might be better odds with the death sentence. At least they get a retrial. No retrial for life in prison. So what it comes down to, are your odds better in a retrial or rotting in prison for a few decades? Personally, retrial sounds more appealing.

mzungu · Sep 9, 2011

Tuddrussell said:
Can you please use the word killing? Is that so hard? When execution is abolished, then you can call it murder. Until then it is perfectally legal killing, or homicide, or life-taking... It is not murder which is a legal term.

It refers to the unlawful killing of another human being without justification or excuse.

I understand you feel stongly about this, I respect that. People are dying, and it should be unacceptable. I wish the world was perfect, and that morality was simple... However linguistics is simple, and you are doing it wrong.

If I accept what you say then all executions conducted in countries such as Iran, Afghanistan, China, etc. etc. which are legal are not murders? Hitler had hundreds of thousands of people executed LEGALLY and you have the Gall not to consider them murders?

mzungu · Sep 9, 2011

Kostya said:
You're in Greece. What business do you have in Iran or anywhere outside of Greece? Oh, and you didn't respond to my prior post.

You are in the wrong thread! We are discussing capital punishment and this is pertinent to all countries that apply it!

mzungu · Sep 9, 2011

Kostya said:
The fact that your country (Greece) is a country with a language, heritage and somewhat of a culture is through murder and mass murder. Fact. This fact applies to all presently existing territories with national borders, even the ones which received their territories from larger powers without violence.

But you on the other hand are telling me you want to live in a tribe and hunt for food while at a high risk of being attacked and killed by other tribes? Now that sounds absolutely 'progressive'!

You are making absolutely no sense! Does anyone know what he is talking about?????

Notedstrangeperson · Sep 9, 2011

Kostya said:
The fact that your country (Greece) is a country with a language, heritage and somewhat of a culture is through murder and mass murder. Fact.

Why are we bringing nationality into this? Yeah Greece has a history of violence - find me a country which doesn't.

Tuddrussell said:
Execution is KILLING, murder is necessarily illegal. If it is legal, it CANNOT be murder!

Being legal does not make something moral - the law at best is a reflection of what we already believe to be right or wrong. After all, it was once legal to own a slave and to rape your wife (although oddly it was illegal to rape a slave).

Eudaimonist · Sep 9, 2011

mzungu said:
Sorry but execution is murder albeit a legal one.

Execution is a legal killing, but you are dropping context. Killings (legal or illegal) are not some intrinsic evil. If that were true, a needful killing in self-defense would be immoral as well. Context matters!

Execution isn't necessarily the same thing as other killings morally. If you disagree, you can't just shout "murder" as if that's an argument. You are going to have to show precisely how a lawfully arrived at sentence of execution is immoral. The fact that it is a killing isn't sufficient to the task.

eudaimonia,

Mark

mzungu · Sep 9, 2011

Eudaimonist said:
Execution is a legal killing, but you are dropping context. Killings (legal or illegal) are not some intrinsic evil. If that were true, a needful killing in self-defense would be immoral as well. Context matters!

Execution isn't necessarily the same thing as other killings morally. If you disagree, you can't just shout "murder" as if that's an argument. You are going to have to show precisely how a lawfully arrived at sentence of execution is immoral. The fact that it is a killing isn't sufficient to the task.

eudaimonia,

Mark

Legality does not negate murder! If you are going to use semantics to justify murder then go ahead, but the purposeful killing of a human legally or otherwise is still MURDER!

You can candy wrap capital punishment any way you like; It does not change the fact that a country that condones and applies legal murder is a society in want of civilisation. The below are not "Murder" because they were conducted LEGALLY!

LEGALLY STONED TO DEATH:

Seen enough?

mzungu · Sep 9, 2011

Self defence when your life is directly at risk is killing but premeditated legal executions are MURDER!

Tuddrussell · Sep 9, 2011

MURDER DOES NOT MEAN BAD KILLING! It means illegal killing. It is noit a matter of morality, it is only a matter of legality.

Murder is not worse than killing in some way, it is just one of a few different types of illegal killing. I am not arguing that execution is not wrong, I am arguing that YOU are wrong. Murder is only murder if it is illegal, that does not make unjust killing any less barbaric, wrong, or immoral!

It just plain isn't murder. Just the same way that extorting money out of someone isn't theft, it is extortion.

In order for homicide to be murder it must be: Unlawful and have no justification or excuse.

Execution is lawful, at least in my country, and it has justification, however flimsy. No matter how wrong you feel it is, that does not make it illegal or unjustified.

ziggy29 · Sep 9, 2011

I used to support it but now find myself opposed. For one thing, it seems rather absurd to kill people in order to demonstrate that killing is wrong. Second of all, a society can commit no greater injustice to its citizens than to execute an innocent person. If even *one* innocent person is executed, IMO, that's too high a price to pay to keep capital punishment on the books.

Gracchus · Sep 9, 2011

mzungu said:
Legality does not negate murder! If you are going to use semantics to justify murder then go ahead, but the purposeful killing of a human legally or otherwise is still MURDER!

You can candy wrap capital punishment any way you like; It does not change the fact that a country that condones and applies legal murder is a society in want of civilisation. The below are not "Murder" because they were conducted LEGALLY!

[shocking pictures] ... [/shocking pictures]

Seen enough?

You are conflating two different standards. There is murder by legal standards, which is a matter of law. And there is murder by moral standards, which vary from person to person.

Is it murder to break into someones house and kill him to steal his 54" plasma TV? In most places that is legally murder. Is it murder to march into someone elses country as part of an army and kill people to steal their oil? In most places that is a legally acceptable form of homicide, and not murder at all.

Just so, abortion is not legally murder, but may be murder by the moral standards of some people. If you are outraged by legal killing, then don't engage in it, and don't lend it your support.

drstevej · Sep 9, 2011

Notedstrangeperson said:
I'm sure this topic has been talked to death already. Oh well.

Recently there has been talk in the UK about bringing back the death penalty. What's your stance?

A few questions to mull over:
Is capital punishment an effective deterrent?
Is it Christian to support the death penalty?
Does the method of execution matter?

Genesis 9:6. If you take the life of someone made in the image of God your life is to be taken.

Tuddrussell · Sep 9, 2011

Fair trade. You have to spend money to make money. Just make the death rowers kill themselves. Wouldn't take much convincing, and we could have gadiatorial matches.

Generate a lot of revenue, and clear up the prisons. No more executions, no one sullies their hands with blood, and the murderers get good and dead. Everyone wins!

Gracchus · Sep 9, 2011

Tuddrussell said:
Fair trade. You have to spend money to make money. Just make the death rowers kill themselves. Wouldn't take much convincing, and we could have gadiatorial matches.

Generate a lot of revenue, and clear up the prisons. No more executions, no one sullies their hands with blood, and the murderers get good and dead. Everyone wins!

Unless there is a drawback to exposing everyone to brutality. Nah! Watching brutality is good for you. Whereas, watching sex ...

Eudaimonist · Sep 10, 2011

mzungu said:
If you are going to use semantics to justify murder then go ahead, but the purposeful killing of a human legally or otherwise is still MURDER!

Murder is technically unlawful killing, but I'll assume here that you are using the word to mean something like unethical or unjust killing. I'm fine with that. I will use the term "murder" in that way in our discussion.

I'm not using semantics to justify murder, and I'm not trying to justify murder. I'm saying that one can't successful oppose capital punishment simply by claiming that it is murder. This drops context. One needs to ask why a particular instance of killing is wrong. An execution is not necessarily a wrong act of killing.

You can candy wrap capital punishment any way you like

Dude, I oppose capital punishment. I'm on your side!

It does not change the fact that a country that condones and applies legal murder is a society in want of civilisation.

This is not a fact. Or at least it isn't a self-evident fact based on calling executions "murder".

The below are not "Murder" because they were conducted LEGALLY!

I agree, but they wouldn't be murder if they were conducted ethically and justly.

Self defence when your life is directly at risk is killing but premeditated legal executions are MURDER!

You live in the birthplace of Western philosophy. Back that claim up with a philosophical argument. Don't just show that "premeditated legal executions" are in some way like murder. Show that they are either ethically wrong or unjust.

eudaimonia,

Mark

mzungu · Sep 10, 2011

Eudaimonist said:
You live in the birthplace of Western philosophy. Back that claim up with a philosophical argument. Don't just show that "premeditated legal executions" are in some way like murder. Show that they are either ethically wrong or unjust.

eudaimonia,

Mark

Who has the authority to judge who lives and who dies? If there is one then who gave him that authority?
IT is easy to cut the leg that hurts rather than put the effort in order shed light on the causes behind the pain!
Human rights shall not be infringed upon by the judiciary that aims to sweep crime under the rug by cutting the leg that hurts!
No matter how one tries to justify it; The premeditated and purposeful taking of a human life is wrong! Any society that applies capital punishment becomes insensitive to the loss of human life in general and is a society that is vengeful!
When societies loose their compassion towards those that have wronged them then those societies become nothing more than spectators to the blood lust of judicial murder!
To sum it all up: TWO WRONGS DO NOT A RIGHT MAKE!

Do You Support Capital Punishment?

Do you support capital punishment?

Yes

No

Unsure

I love Jesus!

The Dreamer of the Darkness

"God"? What do you mean??

Advocate of Truth

INVICTUS

INVICTUS

INVICTUS

Well-Known Member

I believe in life before death!

INVICTUS

INVICTUS

The Dreamer of the Darkness

Junior Member

Senior Veteran

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."

The Dreamer of the Darkness

Senior Veteran

I believe in life before death!

INVICTUS

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency