Do you have to get baptized in water?

£amb · Dec 13, 2005

BOJAX said:
?

Now I would of loved to have been baptised in milk chocolate...

jochanaan · Dec 13, 2005

I wouldn't say you have to, but it's probably best to be immersed. Baptism flows (no pun intended--no, really! ) from the Jewish cleansing ritual that requires total immersion. (And total nudity, BTW. ) And Paul points out the symbolism of being "buried" in water, that would be lost in a mere sprinkling.

BOJAX · Dec 13, 2005

I guess what I meant to ask was do we have to be baptised period. I said water because when we are saved we are baptized in the Holy Spirit.

tommiegrant · Dec 13, 2005

No, it does not effect your salvation however it is a step of obeitence Jesus says that we should do this as a sign to the world of what as happened in our hearts. Think of it like this man fell because of disobietence to God so God had to fix it with His own blood, so when we come to Jesus as Lord and Savior then we should respond to His grace with an act of obietence. Hope this helps. In Christ Tom

ebia · Dec 13, 2005

BOJAX said:
?

Isn't that the wrong question?

Shouldn't the question be "Should we get baptised?" rather than "Do we have to"?

BOJAX · Dec 13, 2005

ebia said:
Isn't that the wrong question?

Shouldn't the question be "Should we get baptised?" rather than "Do we have to"?

Right.
Of course we don't have to do anything. God gave us free will.

Therefore, should we be baptized (in water)?

AngelusSax · Dec 13, 2005

And Paul points out the symbolism of being "buried" in water, that would be lost in a mere sprinkling.

When I see someone raise their cupped hands over a person and sprinkle water on them, or a cup of some kind to pour on them, I don't lose one iota of the symbolism. It's not the how that gives symbolism to me, or to pretty much anyone who doesn't do total immersion (that I know of), but it's the act of baptism itself, regardless of method.

Of course, if I had my 'druthers, I'druther been baptized in hershey's chocolate syrup....

Natman · Dec 14, 2005

The ACT of baptism is nothing more than an outward sign of an inward change and a demonstration of our first act of obedience to Jesus Christ our Lord. It is to proclaim to others that you are now dead to your old self, risen to new life and cleansed by the blood of Jesus on the cross.

It doesn't really matter if you are sprinlled, soaked or immersed, although, IMHO, immersion baptism offers the greatest amount of symbolism through the burial (complete submersion), resurection (comming out of the water) and cleansing (having the water come into complete contact with the body). This is also the manner in which Jesus Himself was baptised.

According to Jewish and early Chrisian traditions, baptisms (mikveh's) were done with the person being baptised completely naked, not even allowing a hair ribbon to come between the cleansing waters and any part of the body.

hannabl · Dec 14, 2005

Baptism is required, though God can save those who are not baptised... since he is, in fact, God.

Baptism is not merely symbolic, it needs to be done in water and in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Baptism cleanses us, it is salvific - it washes away our sins (which is why at on time people who became Christians waited until they were dying to get baptised.)

But of course this does not mean that all that are baptised are automatically saved, even if they chose to turn away from God.

I've heard about someone baptising in sand, since there was no water around, but it was declared non-valid.

/hannabl

BOJAX · Dec 14, 2005

thank you for the insight!

Natman · Dec 14, 2005

hannabl said:
Baptism is required, though God can save those who are not baptised... since he is, in fact, God.

Baptism is not merely symbolic, it needs to be done in water and in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Baptism cleanses us, it is salvific - it washes away our sins (which is why at on time people who became Christians waited until they were dying to get baptised.)

What about the thief on the cross to whom Jesus said "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." or any number of people that make death-bed conversions without the benefit of baptism?

What about those "saints" that died before Christ's advent and His commission to baptism, that were looking forward to the coming Messiah?

We are SAVED by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, and not by works (including baptism) that any man should boast, but unto good works for the glory of God.

AngelusSax · Dec 14, 2005

What about the thief on the cross to whom Jesus said "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." or any number of people that make death-bed conversions without the benefit of baptism?

What about those "saints" that died before Christ's advent and His commission to baptism, that were looking forward to the coming Messiah?

Well now, in baptism we are united with the death and resurrection of Christ. This would not be so until after the resurrection, which of course happened after that advent and after that incident on the cross.

hannabl · Dec 14, 2005

Natman said:
What about the thief on the cross to whom Jesus said "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." or any number of people that make death-bed conversions without the benefit of baptism?

What about those "saints" that died before Christ's advent and His commission to baptism, that were looking forward to the coming Messiah?

We are SAVED by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, and not by works (including baptism) that any man should boast, but unto good works for the glory of God.

Technically, the thief on the cross died before Jesus. He died before Jesus rose again. He died when during the Old Covenant. So he did not require baptism.

And, there is such a thing as Baptism of Desire, when a regular one cannot be performed e.g. trough lack of knowledge. Also, there is the Baptism of Blood, when someone is martyred before being baptised.

Water baptism is the norm, ans it is required, it is not merely symbolic.

But God is not bound by it. What's in your heart is what is most important, as God sees and knows everything.

And, yes, we are saved by grace.

We are not saved by faith alone, nor by faith and works. We are saved by grace, through faith and works...

/hannabl

jochanaan · Dec 14, 2005

hannabl said:
Technically, the thief on the cross died before Jesus. He died before Jesus rose again. He died when during the Old Covenant. So he did not require baptism...

So what about every whom John the Baptist and Jesus' disciples baptized before Jesus' death and resurrection? Were they "old covenant" people?

AngelusSax · Dec 14, 2005

So what about every whom John the Baptist and Jesus' disciples baptized before Jesus' death and resurrection? Were they "old covenant" people?

John is quite clear that his baptism and the baptism of the one whom he witnessed for were two different baptisms.

hannabl · Dec 14, 2005

jochanaan said:
So what about every whom John the Baptist and Jesus' disciples baptized before Jesus' death and resurrection? Were they "old covenant" people?

Yes.
[BIBLE] Matthew 3:11 "I indeed baptise you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier thanI, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptise you with the Holy Spirit and fire" [/BIBLE]

jochanaan · Dec 14, 2005

You know, you're right. I just remembered Acts 19, in which Paul and his traveling companions find a bunch of believers that knew only John's baptism, so that Paul had to teach them the full truth about the Holy Spirit.

Well, we can discuss this till the Second Coming and not find an answer that will satisfy everyone, so I'll lay off the provocative comments.

chrisslort · Dec 15, 2005

Yes of course. You have to. There is no other way. It must be done.

Stinker · Dec 15, 2005

Jesus baptized His immediate disciples (in His name or His authority) who in turn baptized even more disciples than John the Baptist! (Jn.3:22,26) (Jn.4:1,22)

This water baptism is also the one recorded later in Mt.28:19 which is known as the Great Commision.

Do you have to get baptized in water?

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