do you have to agree with the book of concord to join an els or lcms church? (more)

[flowermama]

To join an LCMS or ELS church, do you have to agree fully with the Book of Concord?

DH and I are somewhere inbetween Lutheran and Reformed Baptist. *rolleyes* Actually, we left a Reformed Baptist church, are attending an ELS church and taking a class with the pastor, and are becoming more and more Lutheran, but I'm afraid that we'll probably never agree fully with the Book of Concord. Because of that we are thinking that we might fit better at an LCMS church that we visited. We love both churches, though (both the LCMS church we visited and the ELS church we have been attending and taking a class with the pastor).

The LCMS church will let us take communion even if we don't join the church. The ELS church won't.

I think perhaps we are more Lutheran than not, yet not completely Lutheran, and we are not sure what to do. We only would want to be part of a conservative Lutheran church, though... one that believes in the inerrancy and infallibility of the Bible.

Do you have any helpful thoughts you could share with us? And if you have any questions, feel free to ask! TIA!

 

[Lupinus]

You don't go on to mention just what the problems wou have with the Book of Concord are. What would those problems be if I may ask? It would be a lot easier for us here to help you if we knew those problems you were having.

 

[dinkime]

i am wondering the same thing, what area of the book of concord do you have questions/issues/etc with? that may help us with how to help you with what to do...or help with explaining parts, etc

 

[synger]

We had similar questions for a long time. My husband comes from a Baptist background, and I was Presbyterian. Needless to say, we had some serious doctrinal differences with BoC at first. *grins*

Your pastor will be your best reference as you learn and study. This forum is also VERY useful. We've got some extremely knowledgeable Lutherans here.

 

[DaRev]

I'm surprised that the LCMS will commune you as a Reformed Baptist. That not only goes against the LCMS teaching of the Sacrament, but it goes against Scripture as well.

And to answer your question...

The Book of Concord is the true exposition of the Scriptural teachings of the Church. The BoC is not some additional set of doctrines, but is in fact what the Scriptures teach us on a number of issues. Of course, the BoC is not exhaustive as far as Scriptural teaching, but everything in the BoC is thoroughly Scriptural.

In the Rite of Confirmation in the Lutheran Church (and also the Rite of receiving new members), you would be asked to confess "the doctrine of the Evangelical Lutheran Church, drawn from the Scriptures, as learned from the Small Catechism." By confessing to the doctrines of Scripture, you would also be confessing to the Book of Concord since the BoC is the doctrine of Scripture.

As others here have said, it would serve better to know what specific questions you have.

 

[flowermama]

I'm surprised that the LCMS will commune you as a Reformed Baptist. That not only goes against the LCMS teaching of the Sacrament,

I was surprised they let us, since from reading on the LCMS website, I know it's not official policy.

We have visited two LCMS churches. The first church we visited earlier this year right around the time we left the Reformed Baptist church. When we visited we were offered communion at there (but we declined knowing we at that time did not believe in Real Presence).

At the LCMS church we visited more recently, while others were going up for the Lord's Supper, I went to the foyer and asked a man (who had briefly come in during the welcoming time to talk with my DH) if we could take communion. I hoped it might be okay since we believe in Real Presence now. When he responded I can't remember how he worded it, but I think basically he was asking me if we were Christians, and that since we were we could take communion. I was very surprised, and when I went back to my husband I tried to urge him to ask the usher to make sure. I wanted to take it so badly, though, since we hadn't since we left the Reformed Baptist church and at that church I'm afraid I didn't really care for communion all that much... not really understanding the importance of it.

We found out later, btw, that the man I asked if we could take communion was that church's Outreach Minister.

The Book of Concord is the true exposition of the Scriptural teachings of the Church. The BoC is not some additional set of doctrines, but is in fact what the Scriptures teach us on a number of issues. Of course, the BoC is not exhaustive as far as Scriptural teaching, but everything in the BoC is thoroughly Scriptural.

I understand what you are saying and respect it. One of my main problems is that I've never agreed fully with any set of doctrines as outlined in any confession -- I think that Baptists often tend to be very individual in their doctrine. Anyway, so the idea of saying that something written by man (and please know I don't mean that to be disrespectful) is completely true -- I just don't know how I can do that.

Right now we have gone through a workbook with our pastor at the ELS church, and it's been wonderful. Next we are going to be talking about Baptism. He gave us a book to read. He won't be there next week, so we have to wait an extra week before discussing that section.

I am really, really struggling with the idea of baptismal regeneration. I am really struggling with the idea baptism is God's work in us.

It's such a completely different way of thinking than I was ever taught in all my 17 years of attending Baptist schools, that I don't know how I will ever understand it. I am trying really, really hard.

I could go on and "talk your ear off" but I'll stop.

In the Rite of Confirmation in the Lutheran Church (and also the Rite of receiving new members), you would be asked to confess "the doctrine of the Evangelical Lutheran Church, drawn from the Scriptures, as learned from the Small Catechism." By confessing to the doctrines of Scripture, you would also be confessing to the Book of Concord since the BoC is the doctrine of Scripture.

That's really helpful to know! Thank you!

Synger, that's neat to hear that you came from a Presbyterian background and that your dh came from a Baptist background. I'm glad you can understand some of what we are going through. That's encouraging!

Thank you, everyone!

 

[WildStrawberry]

No real words of help here but I wanted to say hi! And welcome!

Kae

 

[DaRev]

I was surprised they let us, since from reading on the LCMS website, I know it's not official policy.

We have visited two LCMS churches. The first church we visited earlier this year right around the time we left the Reformed Baptist church. When we visited we were offered communion at there (but we declined knowing we at that time did not believe in Real Presence).

At the LCMS church we visited more recently, while others were going up for the Lord's Supper, I went to the foyer and asked a man (who had briefly come in during the welcoming time to talk with my DH) if we could take communion. I hoped it might be okay since we believe in Real Presence now. When he responded I can't remember how he worded it, but I think basically he was asking me if we were Christians, and that since we were we could take communion. I was very surprised, and when I went back to my husband I tried to urge him to ask the usher to make sure. I wanted to take it so badly, though, since we hadn't since we left the Reformed Baptist church and at that church I'm afraid I didn't really care for communion all that much... not really understanding the importance of it.

We found out later, btw, that the man I asked if we could take communion was that church's Outreach Minister.

While I personally would have discussed such things with you in a bit more detail prior to communion, I am pleased to hear that you understand what the Sacrament is. I myself have communed non-members and visitors after such discussions. But I also encourage them to consider joining the church if they wish to continue to come and receive.

I understand what you are saying and respect it. One of my main problems is that I've never agreed fully with any set of doctrines as outlined in any confession -- I think that Baptists often tend to be very individual in their doctrine. Anyway, so the idea of saying that something written by man (and please know I don't mean that to be disrespectful) is completely true -- I just don't know how I can do that.

While the BoC is written by men and therefore we cannot and do not refer to it as "inerrant", it is thoroughly Scriptural in what it teaches us. Every doctrine of the Lutheran Church is based upon Scripture alone. That is what we call the "Formal Principle", Sola Scriptura. While we can rely on the Confessions to explain what we teach and hold, even those have Scriptural backing to explain them.

Right now we have gone through a workbook with our pastor at the ELS church, and it's been wonderful. Next we are going to be talking about Baptism. He gave us a book to read. He won't be there next week, so we have to wait an extra week before discussing that section.

I am really, really struggling with the idea of baptismal regeneration. I am really struggling with the idea baptism is God's work in us.

It's such a completely different way of thinking than I was ever taught in all my 17 years of attending Baptist schools, that I don't know how I will ever understand it. I am trying really, really hard.

I could go on and "talk your ear off" but I'll stop.

Take your time with this. Ask the pastor every question you have about it. He should be more than willing and patient to explain the Lutheran position on this Sacrament.

 

[dinkime]

and the people here are also able to help! you seem to actually want to know and learn and grow, so that is a huge step in faith glad to see you here!!

 

[LilLamb219]

Hey guys, Flowermama and I are old friends from another board!!! Isn't that awesome? We haven't seen each other online in years though but it's great that she's here. I have many wonderful things to say about this lady! Gentle, compassionate, honest, graceful...etc...

So, everyone be nice or I'll come after you!

 

[DaRev]

Oooo... I'm scared...

http://www.tsteacher.com/Images/Smiley Face _Scared.jpg

 

[Jim47]

To join an LCMS or ELS church, do you have to agree fully with the Book of Concord?

DH and I are somewhere inbetween Lutheran and Reformed Baptist. *rolleyes* Actually, we left a Reformed Baptist church, are attending an ELS church and taking a class with the pastor, and are becoming more and more Lutheran, but I'm afraid that we'll probably never agree fully with the Book of Concord. Because of that we are thinking that we might fit better at an LCMS church that we visited. We love both churches, though (both the LCMS church we visited and the ELS church we have been attending and taking a class with the pastor).

The LCMS church will let us take communion even if we don't join the church. The ELS church won't.

I think perhaps we are more Lutheran than not, yet not completely Lutheran, and we are not sure what to do. We only would want to be part of a conservative Lutheran church, though... one that believes in the inerrancy and infallibility of the Bible.

Do you have any helpful thoughts you could share with us? And if you have any questions, feel free to ask! TIA!

Welcome to TCL Flowermama

To give inly a brief answer but one I feel is accurate, once you have been through your classes you will be what we call examined. This will help the Pastor to determine if he has covered everything in class well enough to explain about all the key doctrines. If he finds that you have questions or are not in complete agreement you will likley be goven yet further instruction so you better understand everything to your satisfaction.

To answer about being in agreement with all of the BoC, I've been a WELS Lutheran for 50 years and I still haven't read all of the BoC. We are studing it now in bible class, but I still prefer to spend my time reading scripture. There is nothing quite like God's word

 

[LilLamb219]

Oooo... I'm scared...

That's right! Fear Me

 

[QuiltAngel]

LilLamb,
You ruin all the fun!

Ok, we will keep the swings and hits in the pillow fight thread.

Welcome flowermama!!

 

[PreachersWife2004]

and just as a thought...ELS churches are in fellowship with WELS churches, so that if you find you can't attend the ELS church for some reason, you would be welcome to worship and commune at the WELS church, if there was one in your area.

Welcome. I'm sure that with a lot of patience and prayer, you will understand the doctrines more. I had a really tough time with the WELS' fellowship doctrine for the longest time, and then one day, it just came to me and it made sense. I'll be praying for your family, but in the meantime, God bless you!

 

[Studeclunker]

Me too...

LOL! Welcome, Flower. We're an argumentative lot, but we all mean well. As to the BOC, I'm in complete agreement with the Revrand on this one. In our own defense though, Lutherans have a very codified belief system. There aren't many unpleasant surprises (Unless of course, one is in an ELCA congregation) and the denomination largely, sticks close to scripture. Keep on with the classes. May our gracious Lord bring the light of understanding to you.

Oh, did I say Welcome?

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Choose the dark side...pick Missouri. We get better light sabers on this side.

 

[DaRev]

Choose the dark side...pick Missouri. We get better light sabers on this side.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Bwhahahahahaha. That is funny! Especially because I am a Star Wars junkie!

 

[flowermama]

Every doctrine of the Lutheran Church is based upon Scripture alone. That is what we call the "Formal Principle", Sola Scriptura.

One thing that is confusing to me is that Calvinists also believe in Sola Scriptura, don't they? I think some Lutherans explain it this way, though -- that Calvinists add to Scripture by use of reason. . . they try too hard to have everything fit just so. . . they try so hard to figure everything out so that it makes logical sense that they end up adding to Scripture in the process. I'm not sure if I'm remembering what I read right. Is that the right idea (of how some people view Calvinism)?

LilLamb219, you are so sweet! Thank you for your kind words. *blush* And thank you for watching out for me. *grin*

We love Star Wars. That's pretty funny. LOL

Jim47, that's really helpful to know. Thank you!

Thank you everyone for your help, kindness, and encouragement! I'm looking forward to learning more!