Do YOU follow Paul?

[eph3Nine]

Those who would follow the Lord today will have to follow Paul… by Pastor Doug Dodd​

Paul writes to the Corinthians and says: 1 Cor 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.



17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.


Do you know the ways of Paul? If you are in a denominational church I doubt very seriously that you do - otherwise you would not be there.




Do you follow Paul?



He is our (the Gentiles) apostle today, in the dispensation of the grace of God.






He writes in 1 Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.


If you would follow the Lord Jesus Christ you must follow Paul.


1 Cor 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.



The things Paul wrote were not the suggestions of the Lord. They are the commandments of the Lord.


1 Cor 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
Paul got his information directly from the risen Lord Jesus Christ. If you would follow Christ today you must follow Paul.


Phil 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.


18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Paul commands the Philippians to follow him that he was the ensample.


1 Th 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:



7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.

14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: 16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
The Thessalonians followed Paul and in doing so became ensamples to others.


Be careful to note in this verse the condition of the Jews! They have been set aside along with their program. One day they will be God's people again and will carry his message again. But not today.


Today in the dispensation of the grace of God, Paul is our apostle and pattern. I didn't say that - God said that!!

 

[Jerrysch]

Here is another teaching of "pastor Dodd"

" We acknowledge our pastor Doug Dodd as a great teacher and student of the Word of God (KJV Bible). We being from a diverse background of religion, tradition of men and denominations have come to an understanding of the Word of God and how it is presented by God dispensationally. That Paul is the apostle of the gentiles and all are considered gentiles in this present"age of grace" even the Jew."

http://www.floridagrace.com/whoweare.htm

 

[heymikey80]

Here is another teaching of "pastor Dodd"

" We acknowledge our pastor Doug Dodd as a great teacher and student of the Word of God (KJV Bible). We being from a diverse background of religion, tradition of men and denominations have come to an understanding of the Word of God and how it is presented by God dispensationally. That Paul is the apostle of the gentiles and all are considered gentiles in this present"age of grace" even the Jew."

http://www.floridagrace.com/whoweare.htm

Wow! So ... why are these guys attacking someone who says "A Jew is one inwardly" applies to Gentiles, if everyone's a Gentile?

 

[Jerrysch]

Those who would follow the Lord today will have to follow Paul… by Pastor Doug Dodd​

Paul writes to the Corinthians and says: 1 Cor 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.



17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

This is Paul's simple statement that they should follow his example. All good disciples need to follow the example of their disciple. As Christians we need to live up to the standard which our doctrine sets up for us. How many give fuel to the scoffers by setting a standard which they are unwilling to apply to their own life? Many would have this statement of Paul's indicate that Paul considered himself to be the only example for believers and that only his message was to be considered the good news which leads to salvation, yet that is not what he is saying at all. He is merely stating “follow my example”.

 

[Jerrysch]

Do you know the ways of Paul? If you are in a denominational church I doubt very seriously that you do - otherwise you would not be there.

This is indeed a rather sweeping statement, it implies that the speaker is familiar with all the doctrine of all the denominations and that none of them teach the ways of Paul. I think this is the “guilt by association” ploy. Here again “Paster Dodd” indicates that Paul considers himself to be the sole channel of; “that knowledge which leads to eternal life”, a concept which Paul did not share.

 

[Jerrysch]

Do you follow Paul?



He is our (the Gentiles) apostle today, in the dispensation of the grace of God.






He writes in 1 Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Here is an object lesson of the dangers of taking a verse of of its context and then building a doctrine upon it. Paster Dodd would have us believe that here Paul is suggesting that he was the first to obtain mercy. Many have used this misstatement to suggest that this is “conclusive proof” that Paul indeed was the first into the “church” (what they determine this term church to mean is beyond the scope of my comments here). The true meaning might be discovered by supplying the rest of the context in a translation which is consistent with the modern English language, not one which speaks in the vernacular of the 1600-1700 English speaker.


12 ¶ I thank him who has given me strength, Christ Jesus our Lord, because he judged me faithful, appointing me to his service,
13 though formerly I was a blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent. But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief,
14 and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
15 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.
16 But I received mercy for this reason, that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display his perfect patience as an example to those who were to believe in him for eternal life.
17 To the King of ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.




Indeed Paul considered himself to be the worst sinner on the face of the earth. This thought could have very well been fueled by his partaking in the murder of Stephen in the book of Acts. So then in verse 16 the “foremost” refers back to foremost in verse 15, indicating that the “foremost sinner” has received the “foremost mercy”.


Nowhere in this passage does Paul indicate that he is exclusively entrusted with the gospel message.

 

[Jerrysch]

If you would follow the Lord Jesus Christ you must follow Paul.


1 Cor 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.



The things Paul wrote were not the suggestions of the Lord. They are the commandments of the Lord.

Again Paul is speaking under the authority of his apostleship, yet he is not underminding the authority of those others who Jesus designated as apostles. Nor is he claiming that only he is authorized to preach the gospel to the Gentiles, nor does he indicate that his gospel is different that any other authorized Apostle of the Lord Jesus.

 

[Jerrysch]

Today in the dispensation of the grace of God, Paul is our apostle and pattern. I didn't say that - God said that!!

Actually he ("Pastor Dodd") did say it.... he would have us believe that Paul is our only example, the proof of this is in the phrase “...Paul is our apostle...” Well Peter was an apostle as well as the rest of the 12 + 1 other Spotless.


Clearly this article which has been presented to us here in hopes that we would acknowledge that Paul was the sole apostle to the gentiles, well it just doesn't “hold water”. Paul was telling his followers to follow his example, a statement we all must give to our followers in this day and age, but at the same time we must look back at our teaching and be sure that we measure up to what we teach, that we might not give fuel to those who brand Christians as hypocrites.



This arguement regarding a "sole Apostle to the Gentiles" is ver remonicient of the error reported by Paul in 1 Cor 1:11 For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you.
12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, "I am of Paul," and "I of Apollos," and "I of Cephas," and "I of Christ."
13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?


1Cor3:1 ¶ And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to babes in Christ.
2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
3 for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?
4 For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men?
5 ¶ What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one.
6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.
7 So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.
8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But let each man be careful how he builds upon it.


Don't follow Paul??? Paul is a servant, it is the Lord Jesus who we follow.

 

[JMWHALEN]

(bold is my emphasis)

Only one assertion by Jerrysch(not an argument, but merely an opinion/assertion, since an argument provides reasons for a conclusion)will be addressed:

"Don't follow Paul??? Paul is a servant, it is the Lord Jesus who we follow."
____________________________________________________________________________

A "yes" or "no" is requested.

Do you follow the Lord Jesus Christ as one under the Law? You do know, do you not, that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, up until the Lord Jesus Christ's death, is "law ground",i.e., it is a continuation of the "OT?

"Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not." Mt. 23:2,3/Galatians 1:4

=observe the law!

Do you do Mt. 5:29,30?

Or how about:
"And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them."

Shown yourself to a priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded lately?

Do you follow the Lord Jesus Christin circumcision(Luke 2:21)? Do you follow Him in going to the synagogue on the Sabbath day(Luke 4:16)?

Are you baptized to "fulfil all righteousness"?:

"And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness." Mt. 3:15

Baptism was part of the righteous requirements of the law-it was not optional. Baptism, contrary to what is commonly assumed and taught, was an "OT" ordinance.

Have you sold all your possesions? The Lord Jesus Christ commanded his disciples to:

Command given: Mt. 19:21' Mk. 10:21;Luke 12:33,18:22
Command obeyed: Mt. 19:27;Mk. 10:28;Luke 5:11, 18:28; Acts 2:44-45,4:32,34
Penalty for disobedience-death-Acts 5:1-11

Do you have "...all things common...": Acts 2:44, 4:32-34, 3:6

Do you offer animal sacrifices? The Lord Jesus Christ taught this. Do you tithe over 33%(the tithe was not just 10%) of your assets(the tithe was on all your assets, not just your income) to the Levitical priesthood? The Lord Jesus Christ taught this. Do you go to Jerusalem on the feast of Pentecost, Passover, and Tabernacles?(if you are a male, this is a requirement of the Law). The Lord Jesus Christ taught this. How about the 613 commandments of the law(not just 10-there were 613). Do you keep them all?The Lord Jesus Christ taught this. How many have you broken? The list goes on and on…………..

What about forgiving others? Failure to rightly divide the word of truth"(2 Tim. 2:15) results in confusing forgiveness in this current "dispensation of the grace of God"Eph. 3:2), with the forgiveness in the Tribulation addressed to Jews(Hebrews-Revelation). The Jews will be on "short accounts" with the LORD at this time.

This is a prime example of failure to "rightly divide the word of truth"(2 Tim. 2:15: comparing forgiveness prior to the cross, and prior to the setting aside of Israel(temporarily) in Acts, and prior to the "dispensation of the grace of God"(Eph. 3:2), the "dispensation of God"(Col. 1:25) committed to Paul from the risen, ascended, glorified Lord Jesus Christ from heaven( And this includes comparing forgiveness in this dispensation with that in the Tribulation). Compare:

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness(emphasis mine-past tense)of sins…" Col. 1:14

"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven(emphasis mine-past tense) you all trespasses…" Col. 2:13

"Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave(emphasis mine-past tense)you, so also do ye." Col. 3:13

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness(emphasis mine-past tense) of sins, according to the riches of his grace…" Eph. 1:7

"And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven(emphasis mine-past tense) you" Eph. 4:32.
=done deal

Compare this with the Lord Jesus Christ's dealing with Israel in "the gospels", which is a continuation of the Old Testament, until Calvary:

"Matt 6:14-15
14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 "But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

And others:
"So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses" Mt. 18:35.

"And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses."." Mk. 11:25,26.

"…forgive, and ye shall be forgiven." Luke 6:37
"...if he repent, forgive him" Luke 17:3

=conditional forgiveness=law, not grace. This is "law ground."

Are you "following Jesus" here?

Again, do you follow the Lord Jesus Christ as one under the Law?

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Mt. 5:17

"But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law..." Galatians 4


How are you doing on these:
-tithing approximately 33% of your net worth(not your income-the law demanded 33=% of your net worth)?(or perhaps you send in 33=% of all your net worth to TBN)
-Do you "...love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might...."(Deut 6:5, Mt. 22:37, Mark 12:30)?
- Or better yet, do you love me as yourself(Mt. 22:39, Mark 12:31)?
-Keep the Sabbath lately(Exodus 31:15, 35:2; Lev. 19:30)?
-Have you gone to any Gentiles lately(Mt. 10:5,6)?
-Have you obeyed the Lord Jesus Christ's "charge" to "...tell no man that he was the Christ"(Mt. 16:20)? After all, this was his command, and we certainly do not want to have a "seared concious....." in "failing to consent to Jesus' wholesome words"(your words).
-Condemned anyone recently(Luke 6:37)?
-Ever called someone a fool(Mt. 5:22)?
-Have you brought any gifts to the altar recently(Mt. 5:24)?
-Do you travel to Jerusalem 3 times a year to keep the feasts of Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles(Exodus 23:14)?


If you are not obeying all of this, you, like everyone else who self-righteously state that " it is the Lord Jesus who we follow.", do not, and cannot , fufill his commands, nor does the LORD God expect you to in this dispensation. . The truth is, all christians " divide" the Bible(but not always "rightly", including myself), and distinguish between God's different dealings with mankind under different dispensations. Most, for example, in the most obvious example, distinguish between the OT and the NT. I showed you the proper division with regards to the forgiveness issue, for example. Most just won't obey the command to divide with regards to this issue, and thus misunderstand the cross of cross and it's finality. By "rightly dividing the word of truth"(2 Tim. 2:15), we can understand the "supposed" contradictions in scripture, by understanding that their are divisions in the Holy Bible. Again, anyone with a simple understanding of the Holy Bible recognizes the division placed by God between the "Old Testament" and "New Testament". Those who deny that there are divisions, are either woefully ignorant(ignorant means 'lack of knowledge', not stupid), or intentionally dishonest.



The Lord Jesus Christ taught the Law, which most apparently just fail to realize. Again, do you do everything the Lord Jesus Christ said to do in Mt., Mark, Luke, and John? ="follow Jesus"?That is "law ground", and "kingdom ground", and is not applicable for doctrine to the Body of Christ in this dispensation of the grace of God. We are told by the Lord Jesus Christ, when he appeared to the apostle Paul from heaven, that through Paul comes our doctrine for the Body of Christ, including the command of right division.


The Lord Jesus Christ taught the law, and told all his followers to observe the law.. Those who continue to teach doctrine as outlined in Matthew-John, and Hebrews-Revelation, including the doctrine of forgiveness, for example, are mixing law with grace, and confusing the prophetic program, with the Lord Jesus Christ serving as "...a minister of the circumcision...."(Rom. 15:8), with the mystery program. The Lord Jesus Christ was a Jew among the Jews, confining his ministry to the nation of Israel, and announcing Himself as their King. Israel having rejected Him, He went back to glory, and when Israel continued in their rejection, He revealed through the apostle Paul His new program/"dispensation of the grace of God"(Eph. 3:2), so that now we do not follow Him in his eartly ministry of His humility, as the Messiah of Israel, but we follow Him as the glorified One at the LORD God's right hand, and the Head of the Body. The apostle Paul, through whom the truth of this age has been revealed, not once in any of his inspired writings refers to anything that "Jesus"(his name of humiliation) said or did while upon earth, except for the cross and the resurrection. In fact, we read:

"Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more." 2 Cor. 5:16
(Continued)

 

[JMWHALEN]

(continued)
As we follow the Lord Jesus Christ today, we are commanded to obey 1 Cor. 11:1: "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." Thus, we are follow the risen, ascended, glorified Lord Jesus Christ, not "Jesus" after the flesh, "...Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords"(1 Timothy 6:15).

Although we can learn many spiritual applications from "the gospels", and Hebrews-Rev, our doctrine by command(not optional) from the Lord Jesus Christ is given through Paul, "the apostle of the Gentles"(Romans 11:13). You must "rightly divide the word of truth"-this is a command, not a suggestion.

The inevitable consequences of failure to rightly divide is confusion, mixing law with grace, the commands given to Israel under the law with the doctrine given to the Body of Christ(which was a mystery not previously revealed until given to Paul by revelation-the Body of Christ did not exist prior to Paul) through Paul in this dispensation.

The great confusion among believers is failure to rightly divide the word of truth(2 Tim. 2:15), i.e., confusing the prophetic program, which has as its core the LORD God's dealing with unbelieving Israel and the unbelieving nations under the law and the "gospel of the kingdom", and in judgement and wrath, which was "spoken about since the world began"(Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21-24), from the mystery program as revealed to the apostle Paul, which "was kept secret, hidden(in God, not the OT scriptures) since the world began (Romans 16:25; Ephesians 3:5,9; Colossians 1:26):


Our command from the Lord Jesus Christ is to follow the doctrine espoused by Paul in Romans-Philemon, for these are the Lord Jesus Christ's words for today, and the Lord Jesus Christ has commanded us to follow this doctrine, for following Paul is following the Lord Jesus Christ:

"Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me." 1 Cor. 4:16
"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." 1 Cor. 11:1
" Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample." Philippians 3:17

Take Romans through Philemon out of Scripture, and you do not have Christian doctrine. NADA.

Repeating:

I am under no allusion-I am "no Paul", but I fully understand, and accept, that anyone who preaches the message of right division, as Paul did, will be criticized and found in the minority, and may even be labeled a "heretic". That is "part of the territory"-Paul suffered the same fate, and I should expect the same. No one stood with Paul, and all forsook him(2 Ti. 4:16). But popularity, or sincerity, does not determine the truth. Paul's foes thought he was teaching heresy(Acts 24:14), and all who would preach Jesus Christ "...according to the revelation of the mystery" will suffer the same fate. I say this not as a matter of eliciting sympathy, but as a matter of fact.


Those who fail to rightly divide this Bible, refusing/failing to recognize the distinctive apostleship of Paul, are attempting to overthrow the Pauline epistles, and consider them as mere "supplements", denying the unique ministry and gospel of Paul, which was given him by revelation. Those who do this(most "expositors")deny almost every major doctrine, which Paul states, was shown him concerning the body of Christ. They typically teach that all of the doctrines were in effect, before the revelation given to him, or known by others prior to him. They deny the Holy Spirit's statement through Paul, and are, in effect, calling Paul a liar.They think Paul was a glorified errand boy, a "flunky", for the apostles at Jerusalem. They say the 12 apostles already knew and taught what Paul said in "grade school English"(no need for "expositors"-just ability to read simple English) stated he received from the risen, ascended, and glorified Lord Jesus Christ by revelation from heaven(no person gave it to him or taught him it-Galatians 1:12 ff.):

1. The revelation of the gospel of the grace of God
2. The revelation of the mystery of the Body of Christ
3. The riches of the glory of the mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory
4. The revelation of the mystery of the gathering of the body of Christ(and those who promote the doctrine of the body being gathered after the "great tribulation" is built on failure to recognize that it is a mystery and not a prophesied event).
5. The revelation of the mystery of the fall of Israel

As mentioned, Paul understood that many would be "ignorant" of this. Paul's epistles, exclusively, teach these doctrines, which refer specifically to the Body of Christ, not Israel in the wilderness, Gentiles before the Law, Israel under the Law, or anyone during the Great Tribulation or the Millennial reign of Christ.

We are commanded to follow Paul today, not Peter, for following Paul is following the Lord Jesus Christ. The Body of Christ's prophet, or leader, is the apostle Paul, "...the apostle of the Gentiles...."(Romans 11:13). Just as Israel followed Moses, believers in this dispensation are commanded by the risen, ascended, and glorified Lord Jesus Christ to follow Paul: 1 Corinthians 4:16, 11:1; Philippians 3:17, 4:9; 1 Thessalonians 1:6; 2 Thessalonians 3:9; 1 Timothy 1:16. His writings are scripture, the inspired word of God(1 Thessalonians 2:13; Titus 1:3; 2 Peter 3:15,16), and are the Lord Jesus Christ's words and commands in this dispensation: Romans 15:18; 1 Corinthians 14:37; 2 Corinthians 13:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:2; 1 Timothy 6:3 . The Lord Jesus Christ appointed Paul as :

-our apostle(not Peter, nor "the 12"): Romans 11:13; 2 Corinthians 11:5; Galatians 2:8; 1 Timothy 2:7; 2 Timothy 1:11
-our pattern; 1 Timothy 1:16
-the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles in this dispensation: Romans 15:16; Ephesians 3:7,8; Colossians 1:23-25
-a preacher: 1 Timothy 2:7 2 Timothy 1:11; Titus 1:3;
- a teacher of the Gentiles: 1 Corinthians 4:17; 1 Timothy 2:7; 2 Timothy 1:11
- a prophet: 1 Corinthians 14:37
-the masterbuilder, having laid the foundation of the Body of Christ: 1 Corinthians 3:10
-a steward of the mysteries of God: 1 Corinthians 4:1
-the administrator, "steward", for the present dispensation of the grace of God: Ephesians 3:1-9
-authoritative: Titus 2:15; 2 Corinthians 13:10

Paul calls The LORD God to witness more often than any other biblical writer, and no other biblical writer spoke with an oath more than Paul: Romans 9:1; 2 Corinthians 1:18, 11:10,31; Galatians 1:20; Philippians 1:8; 1 Timothy 2:7

Despite what you have been taught by "tradition", the Lord Jesus Christ's "marching orders" for today are given through Paul(the mystery program), not Peter(the prophetic program). And the reason for the apostacy of the RCC(I am a former "Roman") and most of so-called "Christianity"? Following Peter instead of Paul, following the prophetic program, and knowing "Christ after the flesh"(2 Cor. 5:16-his earthly ministry, presented as King of the Jews), instead of the mystery program, and knowing him as "the head of the body", the risen, ascended, glorified Lord Jesus Christ from heaven as revealed to the apostle Paul, "the apostle of the Gentiles"(Romans 11:13).

Paul alone was chosen to be God's spokesman for this new dispensation. The other 12 Apostles knew nothing about this dispensation; they knew only what Paul taught them ,and that is why Paul said he went by revelation- by direct command of the risen, ascended, glorified Lord Jesus Christ of heaven, to Jerusalem to confer with the 12 Apostles, and to teach them what gospel he preached- Gal. 2:2. If the Jerusalem apostles had been preaching the same gospel, that would had not have been not only unnecessary, but insane! And thus, we have TBN and the rest of the apostates preaching the gospel of the kingdom.


Again:

Paul is the "apostle of the Gentiles"(Romans 11:13, Gal. 2:8), and thus your/our apostle.
Paul is "the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God"(Romans 15:16), which was committed to his trust(1 Tim. 1:11).
Paul is "an apostle...a teacher of the Gentiles...(1 Tim. 2:8).
Paul was "appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles"(2 Tim. 1:11).
Paul "laid the foundation" for the Body of Christ(1 Cor. 3:10).
Paul is a "minister of God according to the dispensation of God"(Col. 1:25).
Paul's writings are the Lord Jesus Christ's commandments today: Romans 15:18,
2 Cor. 13:3, 1 Cor. 14:37:
"If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord."

Repetion is learning-we are to follow Paul by direct orders from the Lord Jesus Christ-following Paul is following Christ:

"Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me." 1 Cor. 4:16
"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." 1 Cor. 11:1
"Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample." Philippians 3:17
"Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you." Philippians 4:9

Paul is our pattern:

"Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting." 1 Tim. 1:16

Paul received his authority from the risen, ascended, glorified Lord Jesus Christ from heaven by revelation, not from man: Acts 20:24; Romans 16:25;Gal. 1:11,12, 2:2; Eph. 3:3


You learn through repetition:

We are commanded to follow Paul today, not Peter, for following Paul is following the Lord Jesus Christ. The Body of Christ's prophet, or leader, is the apostle Paul, "...the apostle of the Gentiles...."(Romans 11:13). Just as Israel followed Moses, believers in this dispensation are commanded by the risen, ascended, and glorified Lord Jesus Christ to follow Paul: 1 Corinthians 4:16, 11:1; Philippians 3:17, 4:9; 1 Thessalonians 1:6; 2 Thessalonians 3:9; 1 Timothy 1:16. His writings are scripture, the inspired word of God(1 Thessalonians 2:13; Titus 1:3; 2 Peter 3:15,16), and are the Lord Jesus Christ's words and commands in this dispensation: Romans 15:18; 1 Corinthians 14:37; 2 Corinthians 13:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:2; 1 Timothy 6:3 . Again, since we learn through repetition,The Lord Jesus Christ appointed Paul as :

-our apostle(not Peter, nor "the 12"): Romans 11:13; 2 Corinthians 11:5; Galatians 2:8; 1 Timothy 2:7; 2 Timothy 1:11
-our pattern; 1 Timothy 1:16
-the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles in this dispensation: Romans 15:16; Ephesians 3:7,8; Colossians 1:23-25
-a preacher: 1 Timothy 2:7 2 Timothy 1:11; Titus 1:3;
- a teacher of the Gentiles: 1 Corinthians 4:17; 1 Timothy 2:7; 2 Timothy 1:11
- a prophet: 1 Corinthians 14:37
-the masterbuilder, having laid the foundation of the Body of Christ: 1 Corinthians 3:10
-a steward of the mysteries of God: 1 Corinthians 4:1
-the administrator, "steward", for the present dispensation of the grace of God: Ephesians 3:1-9
-authoritative: Titus 2:15; 2 Corinthians 13:10

Paul calls The LORD God to witness more often than any other biblical writer, and no other biblical writer spoke with an oath more than Paul: Romans 9:1; 2 Corinthians 1:18, 11:10,31; Galatians 1:20; Philippians 1:8; 1 Timothy 2:7


Even if you say you have kept the entire law, and "follow Jesus", you would still come up short(Romans 3:23). And remember:



Paul's gospel-"my gospel"(Romans 2:16, 16:25; 2 Tim. 2:8):

We are saved by the gospel of Christ Paul preached-1 Cor. 15:1-4
We are established by the "my gospel" Paul preached- Romans 16:25
And each believer will be JUDGED by it-Romans 2:16

In Christ,
John M. Whalen

 

[Jerrysch]

"Don't follow Paul??? Paul is a servant, it is the Lord Jesus who we follow."
____________________________________________________________________________

A "yes" or "no" is requested.

You did a good job taking all that I said out of context... If your read the Scriptures I presented the meaning should have been obvious. By the way... a yes or no is not requested. Only recognize what Paul was trying to say.

 

[Jerrysch]

(continued)

Although we can learn many spiritual applications from "the gospels", and Hebrews-Rev, our doctrine by command(not optional) from the Lord Jesus Christ is given through Paul, "the apostle of the Gentles"(Romans 11:13). You must "rightly divide the word of truth"-this is a command, not a suggestion.


In Christ,
John M. Whalen

This verse Rom 11:13 is one of many verses which some use to indicate that Paul was the exclusive Apostle to the Gentiles, I will admit that if yoou stick with the KJV you might have that misconseption. The truth of the matter is that the verse is rightly translated " 13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, Paul is indicating that he is an apostle not the only Apostle. If the Text had a "the" that is the definate article in it then the KJV would be correct in indicating "the apostle" yet when the Greek is consulted there is no definate article. (ho) strongs # 3558. Look for yourself the KJV has it wrong. But don't take my word for it look it up for yourself and present your Greek text to show why it should be rendered the apostle rather than an apostle.

 

[JMWHALEN]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMWHALEN

"Don't follow Paul??? Paul is a servant, it is the Lord Jesus who we follow."
____________________________________________________________________________

A "yes" or "no" is requested.




"You did a good job taking all that I said out of context... If your read the Scriptures I presented the meaning should have been obvious. By the way... a yes or no is not requested. Only recognize what Paul was trying to say."

__________________________

The standard "you are taking all that I said out of context" argument is provided.

I quoted your own words: "it is the Lord Jesus who we follow." This is your on record argument, in simple, "5th grade English"-no "context" needs to be provided(and I noticed you provided none), nor is an "MBA from heaven" needed to understand what you speak.. I then "reasoned" with you "out of the scriptures"(Acts 17:2), citing verse after verse that following Paul is "following Jesus" in this dispensation, that Paul's words/commands are the Lord Jesus Christ's words/commands in this dispensation, that the Lord Jesus Christ was "...a minister of the circumcision ..."(the Israelites, Romans 15:8), while Paul is the minister of the Gentlies, the apostle of the Gentiles, and thus your minister and apostle........., and asked you, yes or no, whether you "follow Jesus" in his earthly ministry. You said nothing(because you do not, nor do I, nor does anyone else).

Therefore, since you did not answer my simple question of "yes or no", as it is written(spiritual application):

"... Neither do I tell you..." Mark 11:33

This verse Rom 11:13 is one of many verses which some use to indicate that Paul was the exclusive Apostle to the Gentiles, I will admit that if yoou stick with the KJV you might have that misconseption. The truth of the matter is that the verse is rightly translated " 13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, Paul is indicating that he is an apostle not the only Apostle. If the Text had a "the" that is the definate article in it then the KJV would be correct in indicating "the apostle" yet when the Greek is consulted there is no definate article. (ho) strongs # 3558. Look for yourself the KJV has it wrong. But don't take my word for it look it up for yourself and present your Greek text to show why it should be rendered the apostle rather than an apostle.

_______
The old:

- "this verse in the KJV is in error, it does not fit my doctrine, so I will correct it, or I am sure a can find aanother version that has the 'correct rendering' that fits my doctrine."
-ignore the weight of evidence provided by other verses which contradict what I have been taught.

Thus, I will let you "be ignorant"(Paul uses this "good" biblical word over and over. It simply means 'without knowledge", not stupid).

In Christ,
John M. Whalen

 

[Jerrysch]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMWHALEN file:///C:/DOCUME~1/JOHNWH~1/LOCALS~1/TEMP/showthread.php?p=26949612#post26949612
_______
The old:

- "this verse in the KJV is in error, it does not fit my doctrine, so I will correct it, or I am sure a can find aanother version that has the 'correct rendering' that fits my doctrine."
-ignore the weight of evidence provided by other verses which contradict what I have been taught.

Thus, I will let you "be ignorant"(Paul uses this "good" biblical word over and over. It simply means 'without knowledge", not stupid).

In Christ,
John M. Whalen

It is you who is employing this ploy... In that the Greek text does not support the rendering of the KJV. Now I am not the smartest person in the world, but, I do believe that the original Greek text predates the KJV and for that reason (among others) it must be considered of more authority than a translation. Unless you are presenting the consept that the KJV is more authoritativethan the original Greek text.

 

[JMWHALEN]

It is you who is employing this ploy... In that the Greek text does not support the rendering of the KJV. Now I am not the smartest person in the world, but, I do believe that the original Greek text predates the KJV and for that reason (among others) it must be considered of more authority than a translation. Unless you are presenting the consept that the KJV is more authoritativethan the original Greek text.

__
1. The old "I have become an expert in 'the Greek' by consulting with a Strong's Concordance......" game.So, you are an expert in "the Greek"? Do you speak it?Which "the Greek" is that? Koine? I know no Greek, I know no Greeks, I know no one who speaks Koine(or any other "the Greek"), and most people, including myself, couldn't get a job washing dishes/cashiering at A Greek restaurant. Perhaps you could provide your credentials as compared to, say, the KJB translators? Is that not "reasonable"(Is. 1:18). After all, you are "arguing"/proposing to "correct" the KJB with "the Greek"(which does not exist-see below)


2.There is no such thing as "the original Greek text"-it does not exist. There are over 5000+ Greek manuscripts, which do not agree with each other-hence, over 200+ versions in the last 100 years. Again, you do not have "the" original Greek text. And "the originals" do not exist-they crumbled to dust 2000 years ago.

I would recommend you discard this "I am an expert in 'the Greek', 'the Hebrew'.......". I formerly embraced this game, because it is a "boost to the flesh"(i.e., pride). I, at one time, also played this game, and acted like I was such an expert, and it gave me that "adenalin/ego" boost. I came to realize that I did not have a clue as to what some alleged(non existing) "the Greek" said, much less understand it, but I sure was able to "act"(showin' off) like I did. I have a novel idea: quit trying to "help God out" in preserving his word by your "expertise" in "correcting""the Greek", or "the original Greek text", both of which do not exist, and learn the beautiful lanuage of the KJB English.

Let me guess-you read an article on "the original Greek text"? You do not have "the original Greek text" in your possession, do you? I know-I used to say the same so-called "scholarly, expert" statements to try to impress others, until I realized that the LORD God does not need any "expert" in "helping him out" in communicating/preserving His word in English(and certainly not from any "two bit" "the greek" "experts" like you and me).

I am done here on this thread. The pride of man "corrects" the Holy Bible, instead of the Holy Bible correcting him/her="I have my doctrine, and therefore will find a verse/version that fits my doctrine."

In Christ,
John M. Whalen

 

[Jerrysch]

__
1. The old "I have become an expert in 'the Greek' by consulting with a Strong's Concordance......" game.So, you are an expert in "the Greek"?
In Christ,
John M. Whalen

These are your words not mine. It does not , however, take an expert to determine if a noun has the definate article with it or not, by the way your concordance will not tell you the significance of the definate article.

 

[Jerrysch]

__



2.There is no such thing as "the original Greek text"-it does not exist. There are over 5000+ Greek manuscripts, which do not agree with each other-hence, over 200+ versions in the last 100 years. Again, you do not have "the" original Greek text. And "the originals" do not exist-they crumbled to dust 2000 years ago.



In Christ,
John M. Whalen

Well at least you got one thing correct in your post. I did make an error in stating Original Greek text, thery do not exist any longer, they did at one time but not now. Yet with the number of copies we can be very sure that the original text is well represented by the copyies we now possess.

 

[Jerrysch]

__



2.There is no such thing as "the original Greek text"-it does not exist. There are over 5000+ Greek manuscripts, which do not agree with each other-hence, over 200+ versions in the last 100 years. Again, you do not have "the" original Greek text. And "the originals" do not exist-they crumbled to dust 2000 years ago.



In Christ,
John M. Whalen

Well at least you got one thing correct in your post. I did make an error in stating Original Greek text, thery do not exist any longer, they did at one time but not now. Yet with the number of copies we can be very sure that the original text is well represented by the copies we now possess.

 

[Jerrysch]

__


I would recommend you discard this "I am an expert in 'the Greek', 'the Hebrew'.......". I formerly embraced this game, because it is a "boost to the flesh"(i.e., pride).
In Christ,
John M. Whalen

I never sugested that I am an experet in anyything. You must have made that conclusion on your own. You do seem to think that it takes some sort of supernatural empowerment to understand any language other than ones mother tongue, and that if anyone suggests a minute point of linguistics that they are claiming to be an expert and for that reason are to be shuned.

 

[Jerrysch]

__


Let me guess-you read an article on "the original Greek text"? You do not have "the original Greek text" in your possession, do you? I know-I used to say the same so-called "scholarly, expert" statements to try to impress others, until I realized that the LORD God does not need any "expert" in "helping him out" in communicating/preserving His word in English(and certainly not from any "two bit" "the greek" "experts" like you and me).



In Christ,
John M. Whalen

If you are reading the Bible in English, you are reading a translation, that translation was done by a man, not by God , if yoou are reading the KJV you have an extra step in translating it from 1611 English to modern English. You are then two steps away from the text which God inspired.

For the record, I am not an expert trying to help God out if that is what you are concluding frm my posts, you have misread them.