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Do you believe in time?

darkwoof

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Time is merely a measurement of moments passing from the beginning and end of an event (such as an activity or the life of a being). It isn't a creation. It applies only to created beings like us because we ahve a beginning and end. It does not apply to God because He is eternal and infinte.

It's applicability (if there is such a word) or reality is dependant on the subject which it is applied to, an is thus varient.

So in a way, it's like saying time doesn't really exist as a separate essense. Like science, it is merely an explaination to things that apply to us.
 
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Originally posted by s0uljah
Is time real? Is it just an illusion, or in other words, the human perception of cause and effect?

What do you think?

I believe the God is outside of time, and that everything that "will" happen "already" has happened, from his perspective. It is relative to God.

This is an interesting philosophical discussion, tracing all the way back to Plato and Heraclitus. What is the distinction between "being" and "becoming"?

One could argue that time is illusory, and only a construct of our mind trying to connect related events.

I've seen metaphysical arguments that every conceivable configuration of the universe that could logically exist DOES exist, but they rely on an anthropic principle to explain time.

Because the passage of time is one of the metaphysical assumptions we make as part of our rationality, I think that the question is ultimately unanswerable.

As Conan the Barbarian once said: "I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me."
 
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Oliver

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Originally posted by Ray K

As Conan the Barbarian once said: "I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me."

LOL... I never thought that this film could be used as a reference in a philosophical debate.
But I must admit that in this context, it is indeed appropriate! I'm impressed :clap: :clap: :bow:
 
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Originally posted by s0uljah
Cool, you win points for that quote Ray. :)

When did he say that? Was it in a book? I don't remember that in the movies?

It was in "Queen of the Black Coast". Conan speaks on his views of the Gods, the afterlife, and the importance of living in the "here and now".

The full quote is very insightful. Robert E. Howard is one of my favorite writers of fiction.
 
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ThienAn

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Originally posted by s0uljah
I believe the God is outside of time, and that everything that "will" happen "already" has happened, from his perspective. It is relative to God.

I believe this is true.

Time is for us humans I suppose you can say.
 
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Originally posted by s0uljah

I believe the God is outside of time, and that everything that "will" happen "already" has happened, from his perspective. It is relative to God.

IMO this is probably very close to being true, if not entirely true. The way I see the comparison is as if God is 3-dimensional and he has created us as 2-dimensional creatures living on a piece of paper. As 2-D people, we can't quite grasp what it's like to be 3-D. But just because it's hard for us to imagine what things are like from God's perspective doesn't limit His perspective. We end up making errors in our judgement simply because our perception is so limited (and He warns us repeatedly, by the way, that His ways are so far above our ways that it is a mistake to lean on our own understanding). For example, God could wrap the paper into a tube and poke His finger through the tube. Since His finger would intersect the paper in 2 places, we would perceive it as God being in 2 places at once, even though the reality is nothing like our perception.

IMO that's sort of what it's like with respect to our limitations regarding time and many other perspectives.
 
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franklin

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Originally posted by s0uljah
Is time real? Is it just an illusion, or in other words, the human perception of cause and effect?
What do you think?
I believe the God is outside of time, and that everything that "will" happen "already" has happened, from his perspective. It is relative to God.

s0uljah, Hiyadoin, very thought provoking post.... That brings the question to mind, can God tell time? Why does Peter say 1000 years is as one day to God? Is God telling Peter that 1000 years is a literal one thousand years or is this to have a symbolic meaning of completeness? When God communicates time to man, He reasons with His creation in a way that man can understand Him. But in the scripture, God spoke to MAN! The time statements about the kingdom's establishment were made to MAN! The time statements in the Bible were spoken to man to encourage or to warn man. If God did not mean TIME when he used time words, what did he mean?
 
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ThienAn

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Originally posted by Ray K
Are you a Calvinist? Do you believe that the future is already determined?

The only thing I am is a christian. The future from our point of view has not been determined, because God did say that He did not make the future known to man(don't remember the biblical address of this). He said something to this effect, so don't quote me word for word on this one. Our future has not been determined from our point of view because, clearly, we cannot and have not made any futuristic decisions of our lives.

But from God's point of view, I believe that everything has already came to pass simply because God is not within the constraint of time.

Everything that I wrote above is something that I believe. With the intelligence & knowledge that God has given me, this is what I have come to understand. Whether what I believe is true or not, God will reveal to me and teach me whenever the time comes. But as of now, this is how I understand it.
 
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Blessed-one

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why does a year have to be 12 months? why can't it be 24 months?
why does 4 weeks consist of a month?
what marks time really, in human perception? human events, what we deem to be significant, such as, the passage of seasons.
God marks time differently, our limit understandings can only fathom guesses.
 
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Ben johnson

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Time is very real. But it is a separate dimension, depending on how you define your reference. It may be that from "hyper-space" a mere physical rotation will present time to us as a physical dimension---as easy to cross, in either direction, as it is to cross the street.

I also believe God exists outside of time. I suspect that time itself did not exist before creation (nor did any of the other spatial dimensions). In other words, time is only an aspect of the local universe.

We can affect physical dimensions, and we can affect time. Time is subject to gravitational influence (in the form Gm&#248/c&#178r), and is also subject to velocity (following the [1-v&#178/c&#178][sup]&#189[/sup] operand). To really "make-your-hair-hurt", consider a photon, a single "particle-of-LIGHT", relative to us. Time dilation from velocity is: T' = T&#186 [1-v&#178/c&#178][sup]&#189[/sup]; so that, LIM (T') as v => c, is ZERO. Now, consider the photon, which is moving AT the speed of light (relative to us), so its time, by definition, IS zero. Can you define time for the photon? Its time is zero (if you could teleport yourself onto the surface of the photon, all of eternity in the Universe would pass in a single instant), yet it exists from moment to moment. Does the definition have any meaning?

(No no, I'm askin' YOU, I have no idea!!! :D )
I'm a Calvin & Hobbesist
There are two strips that are my favorite. Calvin pointing at the road: "Life is like this road, Hobbes. I say, 'GO FOR THE GUSTO, get all you can get---'cause you never know when you'll step out into the road and get RUN OVER BY A SEMI!' What do YOU say, Hobbes?"

"Look DOWN THE ROAD!" :D

And then, Hobbes chin-on-hands on the back of the chair, Calvin is watching TV. "Why can't my life be like this sitcom, Hobbes? Why can't I have intelligent people dropping by spontaneously and peppering my day with clever witticisms?"

Hobbes: "Why don't you know any gorgeous babes?"

Calvin: "I've GOT to get my life some WRITERS!"

THAT one hung on the wall outside of my office cube for a while...

;)
 
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Originally posted by Ben johnson
Now, consider the photon, which is moving AT the speed of light (relative to us), so its time, by definition, IS zero.

That was always a good stumper to use on people.

If Sirius is 8 light-years away and you could travel at the speed of light to get there, how long would it take you?

8 years? No.

It would be instantaneous... for you. Eight years for an observer.

Of course, it's all impossible anyway because mass increases as velocity approaches c.
 
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