If you believe in a more zwinglian sacramental theology like we do as baptists then no, Mass dose nothing in the big scheme of things. If you believe in a more High Lutherian/Anglican/Catholic sacramental theology then submitting oneself to church authority and partaking of the sacraments if suppose to carry God's covenental grace to the believer without the need for works as long as you show up for Mass.
Hi SV,
You point out exactly my argument. I have come to understand and see that men always go from right to wrong.
God started with Adam and very shortly men were so deprived that God destroyed it all and started over.
God started with Noah and very shortly men were building things to honor themselves and not God.
God started with Abraham and by the time his descendants were brought out of Egypt, they too, thought they were honoring some god in building the golden calf. Nearly every one of the prophets of God spends a goodly amount of their efforts in rebuking Israel for their unfaithfulness and stiff-necked wrongfulness and by the time Jesus arrived we were hearing God himself call most of those who were responsible for understanding what it was that God wanted 'white washed sepulchers' and 'full of dead men's bones'.
I really can't find any evidence that man has changed, and from reading Paul's many prophecies of how things are going to get worse and worse as we progress to the end, I'm pretty confident that Paul shared this understanding. Then when I read the letters that the Lord himself caused to be written through the pen of John to the first churches, I see that it is happening again. Of every one of the seven letters only one seems to be reasonably clear of any condemnation for some wrong practice. So, 6 out of 7 churches that were existing in the day that John wrote these letters had already headed off in the wrong direction. They had already started from good and somewhere taken the wrong turn and were headed to wickedness. Friend, that was 2,000 years ago and I honestly can't find any evidence that the churches in question were particularly mindful to heed their leader's warning and set themselves aright. So, now here we are 2,000 years removed and those same practices have continued and only gotten much, much worse because it is the nature of man to do such a thing.
So now, here we are discussing the mass and it's application and your comment points out that it's all about what the individual believes. Friend, it has never been, is not now, nor ever will be about what men believe as to what it means to love God and to serve Him, but about what God has said; what God has instituted as the way to return to Him; what God sees as acceptable practices to honor, love and worship Him.
So, I look through the Scriptures. They are God's instructions to us. Jesus speaks of sharing communion with one another and that when we do so we should be particularly mindful and thankful of him and what he has done that we might know God's promise of eternal life. But it is never, anywhere I can find, commanded as a part of our practice that gains anyone eternal life.
However, over the first few centuries, men, represented as a church, have made the rule, of and by themselves, that the mass is an integral part of our coming salvation. I don't agree. Yes, I'm all for sharing in communion with other believers from time to time, but not as any part of my whole salvation package, but merely for what Jesus said it was. A time for deep contemplation of what the Lord has done for us. When I take the fruit of the vine, I am gratefully reminded that it represents for me the blood that my Lord, my Savior, my beloved and dear brother shed that I might have eternal life. When I take the bread, it is a solemn reminder to me that only by the selfless act of my Lord laying down his body for mine, I might gain eternal life. It brings upon me a thankfulness and joy that my Lord was so loving and selfless and also sorrow that because of my wickedness it had to be so. It renews in me my commitment to persevere, in love for that one who gave his life for me, to the end.
For me, and it is what I understand in the Scriptures, that is what the act of communion with the Lord is all about: Communion with the Lord.
I don't want to be like Israel. I don't want to find in the end that my stoic and steadfast perseverance to maintain manmade rituals, traditions, practices and understandings has been just as unpleasing before my Creator as those same things were for Israel.
God cries out to them through the writings of Isaiah. "What are your many sacrifices to me? I am wearied by your constant sacrifices of the blood of bulls and goats and rams." Those who were set in charge over Israel to teach them what it was and what was required to make their way back to God had established for Israel this set of practices that if one would just keep them, they would please their God. It seems painfully obvious to me that Isaiah is writing to them and to us that that isn't so. It seems crystal clear to me that when Jesus railed against the Pharisees, Scribes and teachers of the law that this very practice of adopting some man-made ritual or tradition that they had understood and explained and taught the people was what God wanted of them was totally lacking in truth. Jesus even points out to them an example of this very practice. Pointing out how they have made the law to honor one's parents corrupt by telling the people that they should give their money to the temple rather than take care of their parents.
"Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering." Let's dissect that sentence just a bit. First, Jesus is calling these people that he is talking to 'experts in the law'. This is exactly what those who hold themselves up in the higher echelons of the fellowships in question think of themselves. That they are the 'experts in the law' and they spend a goodly amount of effort, even calling down condemnation and curses of anathema, against any, like myself, who would stand up and deny them that title.
Then he says that they have 'taken away the key to knowledge'. The very people that we are taught to look to for guidance and wisdom concerning the things of God have actually taken away that key to knowledge. Now, let me ask you: What do you think that 'key' is?
Then he tells them that they are lost and are really nothing more than a major stumbling block for anyone else who might be searching for the way of eternal life. I know this will probably bring plenty of condemnation upon myself, and as I wrote to MM I'm glad this was posted on this board and not the GT or certain other denominational boards, but I look at the practices, teachings, traditions and rules of some of these supposedly 'orthodox' or 'catholic' based fellowships and these errors are exactly what I see being repeated.
I find that this is the greatest problem with the organizations that practice the mass. They have established a hierarchy of leadership and demand unquestioned obedience to the earthly commander over and above and often in place of the true commander. I don't want to be like them!
BTW, I reread your post and so I don't want to be misunderstood that I might be attempting to condemn your post. No! I'm in full support of what you have written, but do want to make clear that the issue here is that we need to be very careful that what we believe and practice is what God wants us to believe and practice and not some group of men who have put their collective heads together over the centuries and made all kinds of 'new rules' that they might understand need to be followed.
And because they are the ones in charge they wield this power trip that says, "Well, if you don't follow what we teach you, then you're condemned." As I understand the many woes that Jesus spoke against the Pharisees, teachers and scribes of the law, that was what he was against also.
If a man is born again, then he has the indwelling Holy Spirit and has the 'key' that gives understanding of the Scriptures within himself. No outside earthly counselor needed.
God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
God bless my friend!
