Frogster said:
I absolutely did, and will again.
There is one law giver.
There is one law.
There are many covenants.
So can you answer my questions now?
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Frogster said:You still did not answer me, or others. Please follow thread order, was the law one?
First Paul commission was to the gentiles first. Acts 9My Bible states that it was Paul's custom to go to "the Jew first". (Romans 1:16) Paul's burden after conversion was to preach Christ. He was burdened for his own people, the Jews. So he went where the Jews were to preach Christ to them.
Acts 13:5 And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.
Acts 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. (Notice, Paul did not do the "reading of the law and the prophets")
Acts 13:16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.
Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Acts 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Acts 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. (Paul preached the Gospel, not the law)
Acts 17:15 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Acts 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
Acts 17:4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.
Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
Acts 18:5 And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ.
Why proclaim it abolished then? Or you mean that all the ten except sabbath?It seems to me that you think Frogster is confessing that the law isn't good and holy. I would very much say that isn't his position at all. Neither is it my position.
Not an attack, a statement of fact. It applies just as much to me as it does to you or any other mortal. No human can keep the whole law, therefore any human telling others they must do so while they, themselves do not, is hypocrisy....and yet right there at the end. There is the personal attack. If you want to call me a hypocrite, use the right word. I am a big boy. I have driven down this road before.
Actually, I do know that, and there's nothing false about the fact that no one but Jesus could keep the whole law perfectly. No, I'm not about to put any human being on the same level as Jesus. I would rather avoid idolatry if I can.Nevertheless you really do not know that. So your judgment is premature. Secondly you judge me by a false standard of human tradition.
Just their Temple/Sanctuary/Priesthood ordinances were ablolished.Why proclaim it abolished then? Or you mean that all the ten except sabbath?
No, you never told anyone to be perfect in so many words. You don't have to. It is Scripture which states, concerning law-keeping, that unless you're doing it perfectly, you're not doing it at all. In other words, God doesn't recognize a command-keeper unless that person is doing it perfectly from birth till death. Therefore, any human being saying they keep the commandments by any worthwhile standard (God's standard) is mistaken. In reality, they don't keep them at all, because they can't. The whole thing's moot anyway, since the law has been abolished according to Paul.Your assuming something that is just blatantly untrue. I never told you to be perfect. That was someone else.
Which command is that? I'm not pushing command-keeping, so why would I be worried about a specific command? Or were you addressing someone else?I think it's funny that you worry in this post about a specific command. You broke that one anyway by your own judgement. Right? So why focus on that one?
chaela said:I would rather avoid idolatry if I can.
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chaela said:No, you never told anyone to be perfect in so many words. You don't have to. It is Scripture which states, concerning law-keeping, that unless you're doing it perfectly, you're not doing it at all.
Simply because all things are now lawful doesn't necessarily mean all things are beneficial (1 Cor 10:23; 1 Cor 6:12).This is a clear reference to the second commandment. What happened to akuna ma tata?
That's not exactly true.
1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 2:4
4 Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
1 John 3:6
6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.
I absolutely did, and will again.
There is one law giver.
There is one law.
There are many covenants.
So can you answer my questions now?
You seem to thing that the law is the means of salvation or that I am saying so. I have made it clear as did Jesus that we keep the 10It seems to me that you think Frogster is confessing that the law isn't good and holy. I would very much say that isn't his position at all. Neither is it my position.
How come collecting money denote Sunday observance?Since when is worshipping or going to an assembly on the sabbath constitute sabbath observance? The Jews were only required to assemble for worship 3 times a year according to the law. The synagogue didn't come into being until the Babylonian captivity I think. According to the sabbath that God gave Israel in Ex 19:26 they weren't even to leave their house.
You seem to thing that the law is the means of salvation or that I am saying so. I have made it clear as did Jesus that we keep the 10
commandments because we love Him and are saved.
James showed that for the 10 commandments. You who oppose the sabbath extend it to all laws to secure a basic for your arguments. James only mentions tenants of the 10 commandments as his examples.The law is a single undivisible unit as shown by James 2:10, 11. Note I didn't use Paul to make the point. Frogster didn't say anything about circumcision being part of the sabbath. He referred to the whole law concept stated in James where Paul uses circumcision in the same manner.
Do you have a refrigerator?You seem to thing that the law is the means of salvation or that I am saying so. I have made it clear as did Jesus that we keep the 10
commandments because we love Him and are saved.
Firstly money can be collected without a church service may not even be money, food and clothes. Secondly If it is collected at a gathering or a service it does not mean they did not observe the sabbath before. As you know we meet in church gatherings more than once a week and SDA's meet on Sabbath and Sundays.One of the interesting things is that Paul always went to the synagogue first and it is a well known fact that gentiles also attended the synagogue. So the statement really points to the fact that the Jews weren't particulare interested in what Paul had to say. Infact they even tried to kill him on more than one occassion.
Touching on the I Cor 16 issue - does it make sense to come to church to place an offering in the church treasury when one was there the day before? I think that is completely un reasonable. They don't do something that silly at any church I ever went to. My SDA neighbor doesn't do it either. The verse doesn't imply at home. If that is what Paul meant why didn't he say to do it at home. Further evidence is the phrase "that there be no clooection when I come." It can't be that Pauls is stating take up a collection so there won't be one. If it is at there house when Paul comes there must be a collection take up which Paul wants to avoid. Treasury is a commercial opposed to a domestic word.
Are you saying that we are reconciled to God by the abolishing of the ten Commandments?Ummmm..the law was one..CONTEXT..the next verse shows by this abolishment, we were reconciled to God. It was not just some minor ordinances, that had to be gone to reconcile us to God, the chapter opens in 1 and 5, we were DEAD in trespasses, under wrath known violations, so you must go by the context, and the definitions provided by the context, it is ralking much more than ordinances.
Were we dead in ceremonial ordinance trepaspasses?
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christby grace you have been saved
Reaconciled TO GOD>>by this abolishment. Read 2 Cor 5:19, God was reconciling, not counting trepasses any more, same wordage, more than just some ordinances.
15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.
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