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Speaking of the carnal mind. Here is Paul begging or beseeching us be holy and to be transformed by the renewing of our mind.
Ro 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Ro 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
No, I do not pay tithes. I am not required to tithe for several reasons.
I am not taking away from the Word at all.
The rest of the story from the "law keepers" version of the Scriptures:
Are you "transformed" by the "keeping of the OT law?
Third the law was added because of sin and has expired because the Seed came - Gal 3:19
Delivered from the law condemnation, not from the law obligation.Fourth we're delivered from the law - Rom 7:6.
Fifth we're told to throw the law out - Gal 4:30.
Sixth truth and grace came by Jesus Christ and not the law - Jn 1:17.
Only if they walk after the Spirit, and not after the flesh.Seventh the Christian isn't under condemnation - Rom 8:1.
Eight The law I subscribe to is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus - Rom 8:2
.Ninth the Spirit does what the law could never do - Rom 8:3
Tenth Jesus said that the righteousness of the law won't qualify you for eternal life Mat 5:20.
The rest of the story from the "law keepers" version of the Scriptures:
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by "keeping of the 10 commandments", that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Is this what it is REALLY supposed to say? However, this is the message that is coming across loud and clear by those who would put everybody back under the bondage to the OT law.
Yes Paul is serious....he states that we are saved by grace and kept by grace without the admixture of the OT law.
Here is the rest of the story from those who believe all are saved by grace through faith and kept by that same grace through faith...
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Are you "transformed" by the "keeping of the OT law?
What we think has always been what counts (as in the renewing of the mind) what we do is what Paul spoke against.What you think, is what Paul doesn't think.
That is not what is said or meant there.For those who wish to be subject to the Law
Paul revealed in Romans 7:1-4 that those who marry Christ but live with the Law are adulterers. Do you really wish to be identified as such?
Lets take this scripture line by line
Mt 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Did Jesus tell a lie?
Mt 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mt 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
Did Jesus lie again?
.Mt 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mt 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
What we think has always been what counts (as in the renewing of the mind) what we do is what Paul spoke against.
ie:lack of conviction in actions, outer form
btw, your color coding is very confusing.
You said the same thing about me. According to your definition the majority of Christians would be SDA. You really seem to like labels. Did you get your law hater icon yet?
1. Well done.
2. There are many Easter traditions, which one are you referring to?
3. No
4. No, I don't celebrate the New Year. I don't celebrate the first of February, the first of March, the first of April, the first of May, the first of June, the first of July, the first of August, the first of September, the first of October, the first of November, nor the first of December.
Any more questions that have nothing to do with the topic of this thread?
Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Well this could have 2 meanings. One when does a person become righteous? Your posted view is that we must attain righteousness from the law. I have pointed out that Jesus says that righeousness won't secure etarnal life (salvation) - Mat 5:20. I think your statement implies that a Christian isn't righteous at the point of what we call getting saved by repentance and confession - Rom 10:9-10. Romans 4:1-9 shows that one is righeoues by imputation/declaration by God. This is a fixed point the same as sanctification. Justification and sanctification aren't the same thing.What is the meaning of this verse? When did the law ends for a believer, when he is righteous, or when Christ nailed the law to His cross with his death?
I notice the question is the law's jurisdiction is over men and not Christians. So I think the approach question to the law's jurisdiction is wrong in discussing if it is over the Christian.To answer this question, we will asked first: Does Christ ended the laws jurisdiction over men and nailed it to his cross 2,000 years ago?
All here in reference to who is under sin doesn't include the believer as the rest of the quote shows. The promise was given by faith to those that beleive. What is the promise? Here it indicates salvation.No! Because this will be against Galatians 3:22-25 - But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
From this verse we find that the law was a tutor to bring men unto Christ that they might be justified by their faith, until faith is expressed, they remain under tutorial of the law. And when does faith come? Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion. Hebrews 3:15.
I notice that you still say sinners are in need of the tutor of the law. This isn't and doesn't include Christians because they are righeous by declaration - Rom 4:1-9. Christians aren't classified as (unrepentant) sinners. As I have already shown the law isn't for the righteous - I Tim 1:9-10. The law didn't end for the anomos - lawless as listed in I Tim 1:9-10. One must use the law lawfully as I Tim 1:8 states.For anyone, there is a today when they come to believe Jesus Christ, this condition remains till the 2nd return of Jesus, for till that day, sinners are still living in the world.
Thus, if till the end of the world there are still sinners, who need the tutorial of the law to bring them to Christ for salvation, to be justified by their faith, is it impossible to believe the law ended and nailed to the cross of Christ 2,000 years ago. The only logic explanation we could comprehend, is that the law is eternal. As Jesus said: For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:18. Of course we understand now, what is fulfilled is and when; the what is the righteousness of the law and the when is when it is fulfilled in those who walk after the Spirit (Romans 8:4). To have this is first to believe, and before believing is realizing the condemnation of the law for our sins, in order we might come to Christ for salvation. Therefore, as long as sin reign in this world, the same would be for the jurisdiction of the law over men.
There are 2 different people mentioned in the question above. Amen! the law ends for the Christian believer. Another amen that it remains for the sinner (non Christian) till the end of the world.Back again: For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
So, when the law ends for Christ believers, we know if for sinners it remains in its jurisdiction till the end of the world?
That is correct was a sinner. It is also correct that God sees the imputed righteousness of Christ and not our unrighteous and rebellious flesh.When some one at the first time of his life put his believe in Christ and justified, he was a sinner justified by faith, having none of his own righteousness, standing before God as he is righteous, because God sees Christ righteousness imputed to him.
Whops! You just said we have the imputed righteousness of Christ. Therefore we do indeed posses the required righteousness. It just isn't of our doing. We never present our righteousness to God as Christians. This is where those who say didn't we do thus and so go wrong. They are presenting their works of righteousness trying to get into heaven. They are theives. Jesus said you go through and because of Him and can't get in anyother way - John 10.This means, the law could not ended yet for him at that moment, for he hasn’t yet any righteousness of his own to be presented to God. The law only ends when he is righteous and could present this righteousness before God that God sees him as a righteous person and not as if he is righteous.
Misapplied Scripture and misunderstanding of when salvation (justification) occurs or becomes ours. No wonder some live in fear.He is not righteous yet the time he was justified, and maybe not the next day, or the next month, or the next year. When will he become a righteous man? It is God judgment to decide when he is righteous and whether he is righteous or remains unrighteous, this judgment come when God close the door of mercy, the door of probation:
He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” Revelation 22:11.
A Christian doesn't present their righteousness, they present Jesus' righteousness in the same way one presents a ticke for admission to a facility when required. Do you really want to present filthy rags to God and hope He likes them. We don't even like filthy rags which we still treat as undesirable trash even today - Isa 64:6.At this time, a clear separation was set up, those who are unjust and filthy will remains in their unjust and filthy condition, and those who are righteous and holy will remain in their righteousness and holiness. Those who depend solely on Christ imputed righteousness will be put in a row together with the unjust and filthy people, for they remain sinners justified by faith, they could not present their own righteousness.
I guess a part time doer - really a violator qualifies as a full time doer to you. The Scripture plainly shows thare are no doers, not a single one. Thus by your idea there is not such thing as salvation. There can't be named any who have been successful in 6,000 years. Sure gives real hope. Even with the aide of the Holy Spirit there aren't any.Those who are really righteous, just and holy people, who can present God their own righteousness, will have the right to enter the gate of heaven and eat of the fruit of life (Rev. 22:14). These righteous believers are the law doers, those who keep the commandments of God. The law jurisdiction over them never ends, and their obligation to keep the law remains till the great announcement day of Rev. 22:11. Just then, Christ is the end of the law obedience for righteousness to they that believe, having their own righteousness of faith, making them righteous people in and out, those who can present their own righteousness, imparted by Christ through the shedding of His Holy Spirit, working in them a life time, to conform them with the righteous demands of the law, a law which contains the great principle of agape love, a law that is the transcription of God’s character, for God is love.
That is out right denial of the Scripture if I ever saw one. Remember the tutor?Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one who believes. It didn't say; Christ is the end of the law for every one who believes (and justified by their faith), as those who reject the law believes.
OK, I fully accept that you're not SDA.It has everything to do with the topic of this thread. You say that all we are supposed to recognize is Acts 15:29, "That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."
Just trying to see how much you adhere to this passage. Considering you have so much contempt toward God's commands, you would be hard pressed to be obedient to those in Acts 15:29. Isn't Acts 15 a form of law as well?
If you eat "Easter Eggs", you are eating meat sacrficed to idols. If you enjoy that Easter Ham - you are feasting on the boar that killed Tammuz.
If you eat pork, you are eating what God said is an abomination.
Pork was commonly used as the animal of choice in idol worship (Deut.12:31,"Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.") , not only that it is no different than eating a rat, dog, cat, horse. Most people find that eating a rat, dog, cat or horse abominable and quite detesable.
Heck, if you are free to eat whatever you like, as long as you give thanks for it - have a feast on the day you die, save your family a buck and they can just eat you. After all, all things are clean now that you are free from the law - right?
Please don't come to me with Acts 10:11-16. The interpretation is given in Acts 10:28, "And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean." God wasn't showing Peter that he could eat anything that he wanted or that any beast was fit for food. He was revealing that God was extending salvation to the gentile.
If you eat meat that still has blood in it (Leviticus 19:26 Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.) - WOW! Would you look at that! The LAW is in Acts 15!
Pause for a second to take that in. SELAH
By the way. You are dancing around question 4.
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