Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments? (4)

MamaZ said:

where did Jesus state depart from me for you did not follow the law?

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He says this:

Mt 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother

MamaZ said:

A work? Please explain. Love is an action word.. Love gives. For God so loved the world that He Gave His only begotton son. That whosoever believes in Him shall not Perish.

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Fornicate is an action word also, so is kill, steal and lie. They don't give though, they take.

A truely regenerated person won't need the 10 commandments in front of them to know what is right or wrong. We don't keep the commandments, the commandments keep the lawless.

Exodus35 said:

A truely regenerated person won't need the 10 commandments in front of them to know what is right or wrong. We don't keep the commandments, the commandments keep the lawless.

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And what about the new Christian, don't they need instruction?Why does Paul teach us over and over not to fornicate, commit adultery, steal, lie and covet? Paul sure seems to think its important to teach and learn these things. Paul says to preach the word because the day will come when men wont endure sound doctrine. He commands Timothy to preach all doctrine.



2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Cuddles222 said:

When some people read John 14:15 "If ye love Me, keep My commandments" They understand it to mean that by keeping His commandments they will love Him. Instead of first loving Him then showing their love by keeping His commandments.

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I think if we love God we wont break His commandments. I don't assume that obeying them necessarily also means love, but without obeying them it shows that we love ourself more than God which is idolatry.

When it says we have gods law in our hearts it means we obey Gods word to please God not man. It does not allow us to pick and choose what to obey or make up our own law, we follow Gods written law from the heart.

Eph 6:6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

from scratch said:

Hmmm! what should I say, guilty as charged which still doesn't answer the question, that I don't believe the truth or am ignorant. Take your pick.How does this explain or show that the 10 Cs describe love? Nothing even refers to the 10 Cs in the above quote. Jesus even says something other than the 10 Cs are greater. Those 2 commandments aren't in the 10 Cs.Is Jesus addressing a Christian or a skeptic unbeliever trying to make a fool out of God who is teaching something that he doesn't believe? Is Jesus teaching that one can have access to eternal life (salvation) through observing the law? That would be contrary to the OT.The 10 Cs don't teach any close to love. All as in 100% are direct commands none of which involve love. IOW all the 10 Cs can be done without love.No shows obligation to the COI to whom the law is given. Commanded love isn't love and any one knows this and that love is hollow - a whited suplecure that is very black inside. Real love is always earned and a voluntary act.

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If you are looking the word "love" in the Ten Cs, you wouldn't find it, but if you ignore the fact that the Scripture taught us that the Ten cs was the law of God that contains the great principle of unselfish love and could be summarized in the two commands: love god and love your neighbor, then it is up to you. Nothing can be said anymore to you of your ignorance.

Should I explain like to a little kid?

If you kill your mother, is it an act of love or not?
If you steal from your neighbor, is it an act of love or not?
Etc.

You don't kill but you hate your mother, is it love or not?

Think of it.

The principle of the law is LOVE unselfish.

Therefore, keeping the letter with your own strength is self righteousness that doesn't fulfill the law righteous demands, because the law is spiritual, the spiritual demands is LOVE.

from scratch said:

No shows obligation to the COI to whom the law is given. Commanded love isn't love and any one knows this and that love is hollow - a whited suplecure that is very black inside. Real love is always earned and a voluntary act.

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What is commanded to Christ believers is to keep the 10 Cs, summarized in love God and love your neighbor.

But Jesus said: If you love me, keep my commandments.

His commandments is to love one another, which according to Paul fulfills the demands of the law. In what? In it deeds as according to the letter and in its spiritual demand: unselfish love.

Arthur57 said:

If you are looking the word "love" in the Ten Cs, you wouldn't find it, but if you ignore the fact that the Scripture taught us that the Ten cs was the law of God that contains the great principle of unselfish love and could be summarized in the two commands: love god and love your neighbor, then it is up to you. Nothing can be said anymore to you of your ignorance.

If you kill your mother, is it an act of love or not?
If you steal from your neighbor, is it an act of love or not?
Etc.

You don't kill but you hate your mother, is it love or not?

Think of it.

The principle of the law is LOVE unselfish.

Therefore, keeping the letter with your own strength is self righteousness that doesn't fulfill the law righteous demands, because the law is spiritual, the spiritual demands is LOVE.

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Ro 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Ro 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Ro 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


And we need to consider the greatest commandment which is Love God with all our heart. Paul says its God will to abstain from fornication and if we love God we will learn to obey His will.

from scratch said:

I find no command here to observe the law. If the Gentiles observed the sabbath, why do we have chapter 14 and Col 2:16? Is it the law of Moses the Gentiles observed? Is that Paul's point? As to the inference that all mankind is obligated to the law I once again refer you to I Tim 1:9-10 which excludes the Christian.

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As I said, you will not find a written wording "obey the law or observe the law, but the intention of those text or combined text by the author is acknowledgment that all men are subject to the law of God, means are under the jurisdiction of the law. Col. 2:16 is not cancelling God's weekly Sabbath, but Israel annual sabbath celebration of feast days. The law for Christians to observe is not the law of Moses but the law of God, His Ten Cs. 1 Tim 1:9,10 does not say that righteous men are not under the jurisdiction of the law, it says that those law is not for the righteous. Why not? Because they already did what the law demands, therefore they are righteous, otherwise they are still law breakers, murderer, etc.

from scratch said:

This again has a specific limit and it is to those that are under the law. We have two verses in a row ye are not under the law and we are not under the law 6:14, 15. Romans 7:6 now we are delivered from the law. Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law...

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Under the law means under condemnation of the law, not under the law means not under condemnation of the law. Christ is the end of the law for law keepers, in order they might reach perfect righteousness through faith in Him. It doesn't says, Christ cancelled the law because of faith.

from scratch said:

Your strongest supporting verse. I still ask what does establish mean. I do realize that a definition was provided. Do the first 3 chapters support the idea that Paul is trying to establish obligation to the law?

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Sure it is, because in chapter 2 all men were brought by Paul under subjection of the law. In Chapter 3, because of their carnal nature, all men (the who world) are under condemnation of the law, and since no man could present righteousness before God, not also by their perfect obedience to the letter which is self righteousness, God gave a way out, a righteousness of Christ to those who believe. This is prepared because they couldn't present it, but once living by faith, they will have the obedience of faith that fulfill the law demands, for the law still demanded righteousness, no matter how you will provide it. The proof of the law existence that demand righteousness, is the law doers will be justified (Rom. 2:13) and The law doers have the right to enter heaven and eat the fruit of life (Rev. 22:14).

from scratch said:

I sure don't think so. It has been pointed out that one of the things Paul is doing is addressing the hypocrisy of the Jew and Jewish Christian in the demand for the keeping of the law. Since we have chapter 14 I don't think that Paul is trying to push obligation to the law. Bottom line I think that Paul is stating that we acknodledge/admit the law exists.

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What is Paul purpose of admitting that the law exist, just to look at it and doing nothing? That is what he said "the hearers of the law."

If I admit that there is a traffic light on the cross road, should I pretend there is not and keep driving when it is red? If I see there is a bridge connecting two sides of the river, should I pretend not having seen it and take a swim to cross the river instead of walking through the bridge?

Same, if Paul admit the law exist, shall he pretend there is no law and reject its existence?

If you study the bible this way, you will never find the truth of the Gospel of Christ.

from scratch said:

Is Paul promoting the law or grace? What is Paul saying God forbid to; shall we sin, that we are not under the law or under grace? I think that he is saying God forbid that we should sin and use the reason that we are under grace having no obligation to the law.

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Wrong! Paul said if you are really converted people through true repentance, you should live according to the faith, no longer living according to the flesh, but living a life for God. Being justified believer by faith, they surrendered themselves under the grace of God, which teach them to live godly and righteously (Titus 2:11-14) to only one standard of righteousness - His own law written by His own finger - The Ten Cs. Being justified believers walking in the path of righteousness, they are not under the law condemnation, and if they sin, the grace of God and his mercy will forgive their sin if they repent. They remain under grace and not under condemnation, but if they continue in sinning and making grace as a license to sin, then they will come under condemnation. if they remain under grace, which mean, they remain in their walk of faith in the path of righteousness as to the law, sin lost its dominion over them, and they are not under the law condemnation (v.14), but this is not a permit to break the law (v. 15).

from scratch said:

I already pointed out v 6 which says we are delivered from the law. That is the conclusion drawn from his illustration in the previous 5 verses. Paul here makes no comment pertaining to obligation of the law.

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Rom 7:5,6 - Compares those who lived by the flesh where sins were revealed by the law and brought death, to those mentioned in chapter 6, the true believer living under grace, whom were delivered from the law condemnation, that once held them in death sentence, to serve the law with the newness of the Spirit, with the mind that is the mind of Christ(Rom. 7:25), and no longer in the oldness of the letter, which is legalistic self righteousness.

Paul says nothing about Christian are delivered from an obligation to keep the law.

11822 said:

Originally Posted by Cuddles222

When some people read John 14:15 "If ye love Me, keep My commandments" They understand it to mean that by keeping His commandments they will love Him. Instead of first loving Him then showing their love by keeping His commandments.

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11822 said:

I think if we love God we wont break His commandments. I don't assume that obeying them necessarily also means love, but without obeying them it shows that we love ourself more than God which is idolatry.

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You are right!

11822 said:

Love does count but we cant forget about love for God which obeys Gods commandment. The last 6Cs are sound doctrine taught by the apostles. Surely we cant love God and neighbor by not obeying these commandments.

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Love doesn't require obdeidnce to a superceded law.

MamaZ said:

Jesus said love love and love.. And He even empowered us to do so by His spirit. I am not an Isrealite. I am a new creation in Christ Jesus.

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Me too! Now we need a me three and more.

MamaZ said:

If you walk in the Spirit you will not do the works of the flesh.

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MamaZ said:

If you walk in the Spirit you will not do the works of the flesh.

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But do have any idea what that means?
"Walking in the Spirit", God's Spirit that is,
is walking the way Jesus walked in that same Spirit, and He walked accorrding to God's Laws, which is not doing the "works of the flesh".
This is too easy.

from scratch said:

Love doesn't require obdeidnce to a superceded law.

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What superceded the law?

Is there anything in this world that can superceded a law that is a transcription of the love of God? You mortal man are really clever if you can invent any.