Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments? (2)

[Elder 111]

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[from scratch]

Originally Posted by from scratch

Nope the NT nor Jesus teaches that we're obligated to the law.Where did the scribes and Pharisees get their righteousness from? Didn't Jesus say one can't secure eternal life the same way? How does one get the righteousness required?

From Elder 111 post 994 previous thread

The 10 commandments was not the problem. If not God is the problem for He gave them.

This repsonse doesn't answer the question.
​

 

[from scratch]

from Elder 111 post 995 previous thread

Completely obeyed not completely removed.

This doesn't connect to MamaZ statement of being fulfilled and therefore completed.

 

[from scratch]

from Elder 111 post 997 previous thread

It is a complete violation of Jer. 31:31-34 to say that God voided the law. How can writing it on our hearts be voiding the law. It I move the car from the garage to the road, that means there is no more car? Am I missing something here?

Please explain how the covenant was moved? I read new covenant different from the previous one. I don't see any movement of the first one in verses 31 or 32.

 

[from scratch]

Originally Posted by Lysimachus post 1001 previous thread

The Spirit is the agent that transforms the heart to obey the law out of love. It is true that the Spirit of God delivers us from the law.

Gal 5:18 refutes this idea completely. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Can it be said that this verse means that if one is led by the Spirit they're led by the law? If so please explain.

But does deliverance of the law mean we do not need to keep it?

I completely agree with this statement. Who is the law delivered to? Who is delivered from the law?

Of course not. Remember, the Law's job is to point out sin, and condemn the sinner. When you have been delivered from the law, it means you have been delivered from its condemning power.

IOW it has no power. So why bother with the law? It can't save or secure eternal life. Please read Gal 3:1-3.

Not delivered from keeping it. No matter how you slice it, cut it, or dice it, living in the Spirit does not give you ANY license to Kill, Steal, Commit Adultery, Lie, Dishonor your parents, or Take God's name in vain. You will be in harmony with these principles if you are living in the Spirit.

Gal 5:13-21. This shows IMO that indicence isn't obedience. There is no focus on the law in the verses I just referenced.

And I believe this includes the 4th commandment. You cannot be saved if you steal (and continue to do so). That's just the bottom line. No matter "how much" you may think you are "in the Spirit". If you are in the Spirit, your fruit will show--and that fruit has to do with obedience to God's Law.

God's law or the 10 Cs with which you're not compliant. I make no accusation but give a statement of fact based on the Scriptures and 10 Cs no less.

Obedience to God's Law = Deliverance from It.

Romans 7:6, 7

 

[Isolation]

I think if you just believe what scripture says then there would not be an argument here. Paul states that we're saved by grace, in his atonement, not by keeping the law. It is the same argument for those who think water baptism is a requirement for salvation. Believers baptisms cannot cleanse sin, only sacrifices can. And there is no sacrifice but one sacrifice and that is the Lord. So reliance on anything other than the Lord voids out salvation for that said individual

 

[11822]

Originally Posted by Lysimachus post 1001 previous thread

Gal 5:18 refutes this idea completely. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Can it be said that this verse means that if one is led by the Spirit they're led by the law? If so please explain. I completely agree with this statement. Who is the law delivered to? Who is delivered from the law?IOW it has no power. So why bother with the law? It can't save or secure eternal life. Please read Gal 3:1-3. Gal 5:13-21. This shows IMO that indicence isn't obedience. There is no focus on the law in the verses I just referenced. God's law or the 10 Cs with which you're not compliant. I make no accusation but give a statement of fact based on the Scriptures and 10 Cs no less.Romans 7:6, 7

You ask why bother with the Law?
Shall i covet my neighbors possessions? Or His wife? Or Kill Him?
Shall i use the Lords name in vain or put other Gods before Him? Shall i steal or commit adultery? Shall i now bow down to graven images and worship them? or force my employees to work 7 days a week?

The law is dead therefor it must now be legal to commit sin. If you fight so hard against the 10 Cs, then you must be saying that God allows us to commit these acts of Sin.

 

[Yab Yum]

You ask why bother with the Law?
Shall i covet my neighbors possessions? Or His wife? Or Kill Him?
Shall i use the Lords name in vain or put other Gods before Him? Shall i steal or commit adultery? Shall i now bow down to graven images and worship them? or force my employees to work 7 days a week?

The law is dead therefor it must now be legal to commit sin. If you fight so hard against the 10 Cs, then you must be saying that God allows us to commit these acts of Sin.

Zactly.

 

[Isolation]

You ask why bother with the Law?
Shall i covet my neighbors possessions? Or His wife? Or Kill Him?
Shall i use the Lords name in vain or put other Gods before Him? Shall i steal or commit adultery? Shall i now bow down to graven images and worship them? or force my employees to work 7 days a week?

The law is dead therefor it must now be legal to commit sin. If you fight so hard against the 10 Cs, then you must be saying that God allows us to commit these acts of Sin.

romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

 

[Yab Yum]

"It was never saving faith to begin with" = "Works are necessary for faith". Same difference.

 

[from scratch]

I think if you just believe what scripture says then there would not be an argument here. Paul states that we're saved by grace, in his atonement, not by keeping the law. It is the same argument for those who think water baptism is a requirement for salvation. Believers baptisms cannot cleanse sin, only sacrifices can. And there is no sacrifice but one sacrifice and that is the Lord. So reliance on anything other than the Lord voids out salvation for that said individual

 

[11822]

I think if you just believe what scripture says then there would not be an argument here. Paul states that we're saved by grace, in his atonement, not by keeping the law. It is the same argument for those who think water baptism is a requirement for salvation. Believers baptisms cannot cleanse sin, only sacrifices can. And there is no sacrifice but one sacrifice and that is the Lord. So reliance on anything other than the Lord voids out salvation for that said individual

Theres more to being saved isn't there? Jesus said we must be converted and love our God, neighbor and enemy. How can i love my enemy if i disobey Gods commandments at his expense?

The law is not void. We have the law of Love that we must obey. Jesus said that we are to treat others as we want to be treated. He said that if a man looks at a women with lust in His heart that he is Guilty of adultery already, therefor we're supposed to keep our eyes to ourselves and not say the law is void so that we can be free to look at other mens wives.

Christianity isn't freedom to sin. Failing to show love to God, neighbor and enemy is sin. If we love our neighbor or enemy as Jesus commanded, we wont disobey Gods 10 Cs at His expense, if we love God we wont bow down to graven images or put another God before Him or use His name in vain. We are not free to hate our God, neighbor or enemy. By disobeying the Commandments at others expense thats what we're doing, failing to show love.

How can the love of Christ be shown if we argue amongst ourselves about the law of the 10 c's? How can someone be converted and begin to love others if they are free to hate others by committing adultery, theft, murder, bearing false witness or coveting? How can we teach someone not to use Gods name in vain or put other Gods before Him if we don't point to the 10 Cs?

 

[from scratch]

You ask why bother with the Law?
Shall i covet my neighbors possessions? Or His wife? Or Kill Him?
Shall i use the Lords name in vain or put other Gods before Him? Shall i steal or commit adultery? Shall i now bow down to graven images and worship them? or force my employees to work 7 days a week?

The law is dead therefor it must now be legal to commit sin. If you fight so hard against the 10 Cs, then you must be saying that God allows us to commit these acts of Sin.

I don't think so. I certianly have never argued that it was legal to to sin. Where have I ever said God allows or OKs us to commit sin? I'm led by the Spirit and not the law Gal 5:18. Sin is the acts of the flesh and those led by the Spirit have no desire to preform those acts. I didn't say they weren''t tempted. Big difference there.

 

[Isolation]

Theres more to being saved isn't there? Jesus said we must be converted and love our God, neighbor and enemy. How can i love my enemy if i disobey Gods commandments at his expense?

The law is not void. We have the law of Love that we must obey. Jesus said that we are to treat others as we want to be treated. He said that if a man looks at a women with lust in His heart that he is Guilty of adultery already, therefor we're supposed to keep our eyes to ourselves and not say the law is void so that we can be free to look at other mens wives.

Christianity isn't freedom to sin. Failing to show love to God, neighbor and enemy is sin. If we love our neighbor or enemy as Jesus commanded, we wont disobey Gods 10 Cs at His expense, if we love God we wont bow down to graven images or put another God before Him or use His name in vain. We are not free to hate our God, neighbor or enemy. By disobeying the Commandments at others expense thats what we're doing, failing to show love.

How can the love of Christ be shown if we argue amongst ourselves about the law of the 10 c's? How can someone be converted and begin to love others if they are free to hate others by committing adultery, theft, murder, bearing false witness or coveting? How can we teach someone not to use Gods name in vain or put other Gods before Him if we don't point to the 10 Cs?

I want to know if anyone can even keep the commandments?

Did you know you can commit sins with emotions and the thoughts of your heart? You don't even need to think of them with your brain. It's what your body wants. I think you're having a Pharisee moment because even Paul said he kept the law blamelessly but if you also remember he gave up all that righteousness to believe in the Lord. So in order to give up all that righteousness he had he stated 'Sinners of whom i am chief'. Of course, in reality, he wasn't. But that is saving faith. You can't be saved by keeping the law

 

[Jpark]

1 Peter 1:1-2, 22-23 tells us how to obey Jesus.

By cleaning ourselves with His blood and willingly loving one another after being enabled to.

 

[from scratch]

Theres more to being saved isn't there? Jesus said we must be converted and love our God, neighbor and enemy. How can i love my enemy if i disobey Gods commandments at his expense?

There are some Christians who focus on and try to follow the law. They are usually the ones with the problems.

The law is not void. We have the law of Love that we must obey. Jesus said that we are to treat others as we want to be treated. He said that if a man looks at a women with lust in His heart that he is Guilty of adultery already, therefor we're supposed to keep our eyes to ourselves and not say the law is void so that we can be free to look at other mens wives.

So how is loving following the law?

Christianity isn't freedom to sin. Failing to show love to God, neighbor and enemy is sin. If we love our neighbor or enemy as Jesus commanded, we wont disobey Gods 10 Cs at His expense, if we love God we wont bow down to graven images or put another God before Him or use His name in vain. We are not free to hate our God, neighbor or enemy. By disobeying the Commandments at others expense thats what we're doing, failing to show love.

to the above. I fail to see how that shows obligation or obedience to the law. Gal 5:19-21.

How can the love of Christ be shown if we argue amongst ourselves about the law of the 10 c's? How can someone be converted and begin to love others if they are free to hate others by committing adultery, theft, murder, bearing false witness or coveting? How can we teach someone not to use Gods name in vain or put other Gods before Him if we don't point to the 10 Cs?

Depends on who is presenting the argument. It wasn't me that brought up the topic. Am I therefore forbidden to enter into conversation about the subject. Where does the contention lie? Not with or from me. I love salvation - the free gift and you can have my wages cause I sure don't want them. who is pushing obligation to the law? And for what? Salvation isn't it? One can't secure eternal life or maintain a position secured by other means by the law - Gal 3:1-3.

 

[Isolation]

1 Peter 1:1-2, 22-23 tells us how to obey Jesus.

By cleaning ourselves with His blood and willingly loving one another after being enabled to.

Exactly. We're cleansed by his sacrifice.
But can we be saved by any other means other than that?
I really don't know where you're going with love your neighbor thing,
I do not think anyone is disagreeing with that.

Ever wonder why Johns baptism was one of repentance?
Because when you come to God you admit your self as the worst
so you can be healed.
Then you produce fruits worthy of repentance, because you get cleansed
by faith and now follow the Lord in love. Of course only those who are
born again can truly love others with their hearts. A sinners heart will
be incapable of this. But still a Christian is one who repented, so they
had a change of heart to follow God but are unable to by their own efforts.

 

[11822]

I don't think so. I certianly have never argued that it was legal to to sin. Where have I ever said God allows or OKs us to commit sin? I'm led by the Spirit and not the law Gal 5:18. Sin is the acts of the flesh and those led by the Spirit have no desire to preform those acts. I didn't say they weren''t tempted. Big difference there.

You keep saying that we can get rid of the 10 Cs, as if we dont need to follow or learn them anymore.

We're reliant upon Grace through faith in our God and His Son Jesus. This same God gave us a commandment to love Him, neighbor and enemy. We're not relying upon our ability to love for salvation, we're relying upon God who commanded that we love. But without Love for others, don't we show that our faith is made void?

Jesus said whoever does the will of His father in Heaven are His brothers and sisters. Isn't it Gods will that we believe in Jesus and be converted? Isn't love the will of God? Doesn't love mean obeying Gods commandments?


Ro 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

 

[Isolation]

I think I have misunderstood you then.

I do advocate living in love as a requirement.
Because if you aren't producing fruits worthy of your repentance then you aren't a Christian.
You're then a hypocrite.

But on the other hand I do not believe the law in it self can save.

I hope you understand my stance Mr. 11822

 

[from scratch]

1 Peter 1:1-2, 22-23 tells us how to obey Jesus.

By cleaning ourselves with His blood and willingly loving one another after being enabled to.

I think I can agree with that.