Do "works" matter?

[Chris†opher Paul]

If works are just a automatic product of faith, why does the Word of God spell out specific warnings about works? If all you need is faith, why does the Word of God say:

"‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven’" (Matt. 7:21).

"‘Why do you call me "Lord, Lord," and not do what I tell you?’" (Luke 6:46).

"For he will render every man according to his works . . ." (Rom. 2:6-8).

"For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified" (Rom. 2:13).

"For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgments . . . (Heb. 10:26-27).

"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?" (Jas. 2:14).

"So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead" (Jas. 2:17).

"But some one will say, ‘You have faith and I have works.’ Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. . . .Do you want to be shown, you foolish fellow, that faith apart from works is barren? (Jas. 2:18-20).

"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" (Jas. 2:24).

 

[daughter of the king]

maybe they mean works more as acting on your faith, because its no use haveing faith in God but not acting on it.
any way thats what I think.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Yes, you have to do more than just believe in Jesus. "Walk the walk, not just talk the talk"

This is often countered by the idea that works are automatic if we have faith or have been "born again." But if so, why did Jesus and the apostles go to such lengths to emphasize works?

"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?" (Jas. 2:14).

James says that your faith alone can't save you, and you must have works. Doesnt this fly in the face of "Faith Alone," the rallying cry of the Reformers? Is that why Luther wanted to throw James out of the Scriptures?

 

[dignitized]

The notion of works causing salvation is clearly spoken against in scripture. However - the scriptures do require works as evidence of salvific grace. If works are not important why would scripture state -

Mt:16:27: For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Yep, the Scriptures about works are directed at believers. Why have so many if they are secondary and assumed?

 

[dignitized]

soul: :shrug: why do people fail to grasp that a saved is not the same as born again? its a mystery of the faith I guess . . . .

 

[Athlon4all]

I think that if one is truly saved, works will result from that person, and this I consider to be a very chief way on gatherng whether one is truly saved or one who simply calls "Lord, Lord." Salvation is by grace through faith, and that is the only way we are saved, by faith. But, if you do not have works, then that faith is likely not genuine.

 

[Andrew]

James says that your faith alone can't save you, and you must have works. Doesnt this fly in the face of "Faith Alone," the rallying cry of the Reformers? Is that why Luther wanted to throw James out of the Scriptures?

That's not what he said. He said "So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead".

There is fake faith (no works is the sign) and real faith (works to show for). Real faith produces the work automatically (sooner or later) becos it is God who then puts the desires in you to do his will.

Php 2:13 -- For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Real faith saves.

Also, dont confuse salvation with rewards.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Real faith produces the work automatically

If that is true then why did Jesus and the apostles go to such lengths to talk about our works? If they are automatic, why even bother mentioning them, it should just happen if you have faith.

I suppose you will say that He talked about it so that we can know if we have real faith. If so, what is the point? If you can't do anything about your own faith, and it only comes from grace, then the evidence of not working enough is useless.

That's not what he said. He said "So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead".

You didn't read the Scripture I provided apparently, because it is exactly what James said:

"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?" (Jas. 2:14)

The Word of God says that your "Faith Alone" can not save you.

Also, dont confuse salvation with rewards.

I didn't. I quoted the Word of God which clearly says your faith can not save you. It doesnt say that lack of works results in no rewards, it says no salvation.

 

[Vijaykyu]

In Matthew 25, Jesus separates the sheep from the goats acording to thier works, no mention of beliefs anywhere. In the 7th chapter, they say did we not prophesy, drive out demons and work miracles in Your name. Jesus says " Not everyone who says Lord, Lord , shall enter the Kingdom, but he who DOES the will of My Father.( my italics). Oh yeah, works count.
In Christ
Vincent

 

[Andrew]

Then work for your salvation. Good luck!

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by Andrew
Then work for your salvation. Good luck!

 

watch what Jesus tells you on Judgement Day.

Good Luck!

 

[Jephunneh]

"But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ." (Rom. 14:10)

" For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (II Cor. 5:10)

Here are the two places in the Bible where the term "judgment seat of Christ" is used. As you can see, neither passage speaks of hell or destruction for the lost. The later plainly states that the Judgment Seat of Christ is for receiving the things done in our BODY. That is, the Christian's body. If you have been born again through believing on Jesus Christ, then your body belongs to God (I Cor. 6:19-20), and God has commanded you to glorify Him in your body.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by Jephunneh
"But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ." (Rom. 14:10)

" For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (II Cor. 5:10)

Here are the two places in the Bible where the term "judgment seat of Christ" is used. As you can see, neither passage speaks of hell or destruction for the lost. The later plainly states that the Judgment Seat of Christ is for receiving the things done in our BODY. That is, the Christian's body. If you have been born again through believing on Jesus Christ, then your body belongs to God (I Cor. 6:19-20), and God has commanded you to glorify Him in your body.

Neither of those verses say anything about rewards vs salvation. You are assuming.

 

[Jephunneh]

Notice that no one goes to Hell at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Some people lose rewards, but they are still SAVED.

1 Corinthians 3
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


We are to YIELD our bodies to Him (Rom. 12:1-2).
We are to DENY OURSELVES and be HIS disciples (Luke 9:23).
So the Judgment Seat of Christ will TRY us and determine whether or not we have done our duty.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

1 Corinthians 3
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Good support for Purgatory.

 

[Blindfaith]

Souljah, are you inciting a flame-fest?  Why are you baiting?  I've seen excellent posts here citing the need for faith/works both.

Play nice or don't play at all.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by blindfaith
Souljah, are you inciting a flame-fest?  Why are you baiting?  I've seen excellent posts here citing the need for faith/works both.

Play nice or don't play at all.

Im not baiting anyone?

 

[ZiSunka]

Works are the evidence of saving faith. You can't have a real, loving relationship with God and also thumb your nose at his commands and teachings. If you truly love God, it will show in the things you do and the way you live.

That's what works are. Works are reciprocated love.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

You can't have a real, loving relationship with God and also thumb your nose at his commands and teachings.

I agree. And wouldnt you say that the book of James is God's commands too? The part where he says to "work out our salvations?"