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Do we deny the cross of Christ with clean and unclean meats?

maco

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Lets go back to the begining to set the stage for the works of God in painting His salvation picture.

God told Noah to bring two of every unclean animal and seven of every clean animal.

Genesis 7:1-3 Then the Lord said to Noah, "Come into the ark, you and all your household, because I have seen that you are righteous before Me in this generation. "You shall take with you seven each of every clean animal, a male and his female; two each of animals that are unclean, a male and his female; "also seven each of birds of the air, male and female, to keep the species alive on the face of all the earth.

Why did God have Noah separate these animals? Was it for health purposes? No. The reason was because the clean animals were for the sacrifice, in other words, they had to be ceremonial clean (without spot or blemish) to offer to God. Do you see a picture forming?

Genesis 8:20 Then Noah built an altar to the Lord, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

The Bible gives no indication as to how Noah was to determine which animal was clean and which wasn't. I would have to say that it had to do with blemishes and defects because this is what we see throughout the whole Bible when it comes to the animals that were set apart for sacrifice to God, they had to be without spot or blemish. Do we see Christ here? This has nothing to do with a health message yet they were clean and unclean animals, as a matter of fact, God told Noah that he could eat ALL animals.

Genesis 9:1-3 So God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them: "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. "And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that moves on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand. "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs.

There was one rule that God gave to Noah regarding how to eat these animals which followed right after He told Noah he could eat every moving thing. Listen to the one rule.

Genesis 9:4 "But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.

This same rule is carried over to the New Testament.

Acts 15:28-29 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.

So why the separation of clean and unclean animals in Leviticus and Deuteronomy?

Because God was ceremonialy separating a people for Himself as a picture.

Leviticus 20:24-25 `But I have said to you, "You shall inherit their land, and I will give it to you to possess, a land flowing with milk and honey.'' I am the Lord your God, who has separated you from the peoples. `You shall therefore distinguish between clean beasts and unclean, between unclean birds and clean, and you shall not make yourselves abominable by beast or by bird, or by any kind of living thing that creeps on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean.

This has nothing to do with a health message. As a matter of fact, God told these people to give these forbidden meats to the alien within their gates so they could eat them or sell them to the stranger.

Deuteronomy 14:19-21 "Also every creeping thing that flies is unclean for you; they shall not be eaten. "You may eat all clean birds. "You shall not eat anything that dies of itself; you may give it to the alien who is within your gates, that he may eat it, or you may sell it to a foreigner; for you are a holy people to the Lord your God. You shall not boil a young goat in its mother's milk.

Do you thnk that if these meats were a health issue God would tell His people to give then to the people who lived in their neighborhood to eat? Aren't we to love our neighbor?

God was using these standards of separation to make His people different from the rest of the nations around them. These laws of separation included, not allowing their livestock to breed with another kind, not allowing them to plant mix seeds or have linen mixed with wool.

Leviticus 19:19 `You shall keep My statutes. You shall not let your livestock breed with another kind. You shall not sow your field with mixed seed. Nor shall a garment of mixed linen and wool come upon you.

This was all done to set the stage for the coming of Christ and the kingdom of God. Once Christ came these things were no longer needed to separate the Jews from the rest of the nations for we are all one in Christ.

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Galations 3:26-29 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

In order to be Abraham's seed you would need to be part of the OT separation laws but not so in Christ.

This whole picture that God gave us with the separation of people showed us that God's people were called clean and everyone else was called unclean. But now since Christ has appeared He has broken down that wall of division between Jew and Gentile, clean and unclean.

Ephesians 2:11-19 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been made near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of division between us, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,

Peter, (the Jew) didn't grasp this concept of the wall being broken down. Peter still looked at the Gentiles as an unclean people. He was even rebuked by Paul for refusing to eat with Gentiles in front of his Jewish brothers.

Galatians 2:11-12 But when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.

This is why God gave Peter the vision of the unlcean animals. Peter was a Jew and lived by the separation laws setforth by God. These separation laws were given to show a separation between clean people (Jews) and unclean people (Gentiles). Peter didn't understand that in Christ there is neither Jew or Gentile and neither is there a need for the separation law of clean and unclean animals. This is why God commanded Peter to eat the unclean animals to show to him that it was now okay to do for the separation laws are done away with in Christ. This ment that Peter was not to consider Gentiles unclean either. Listen to the rest of Galatians and keep in mind what it means to live as a Jew regarding all the separation laws.

Galatians 2:11-21 But when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? "We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. "But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! "For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. "For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.''

The New Testament is very, very clear. The kingdom of God in not in food or drink.

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not food and drink, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Christ's death did away with the law of separation. In Christ we are all spiritual Jews.

As we can see from this very small study that these clean and unclean animals were not given to devise a health message for people to follow and be holy, but rather, they were given to a people to separate them from the other nations just as not mixing of seeds, livestock or thread.

To deny this truth is to directly attact the cross of Christ which broke down that wall of separation.

The truth is important to me and to God. These are not minor issues to cause division with the body even through they do.

Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.

That sword is the word of truth.

Let us understand these things as God presents them and not present a false message that denys the cross of Christ even if it does sound good and reasonable.
 

djconklin

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You have assumed too much from the git-go.
 
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maco

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The Bible says to take care of your body and it is a sanctuary. We are not under the Levitical law anymore so I take that to mean, take care of your body in the best way that you can.

Amen...

There are many things we can do to maintain good health. First we need to listen to our bodies. Second we need to eat right, get our necessary rest and exercise. Now when I say eat right I'm not talking fanaticism. Just eat right, it's very simple. Third is to get regular check ups. Why do I say this, because life causes death.

Even in all this God tells us not to put more emphasis on the outward man than the inward man. Taking care of the outward has some value and is good for this life but caring for the inward is good for this life and the life to come.

1 Timothy 4:8 For bodily exercise profits a little, but godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come.
 
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I know I said I wouldn't discuss this with you anymore Maco, but since you insist on spamming I would like to point out something obvious here.



Notice the words "even as". There are certain herbs that will KILL you if ingested. Obviously God does not want us to eat those.

There's a distinction there. "Even as" means something.

For instance, eating a Pufferfish can kill you.




 
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maco

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I knew you couldn't stay away...

Your theroy sure is a stretch to make it say something that's not there. All God is saying is, just like I've given you the plants to eat I also give you the animals to eat. It's simple...

Listen to this version.

Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and just as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.

And this version.

Genesis 9:3 Every creature that is alive shall be yours to eat; I give them all to you as I did the green plants.

And this version.

Genesis 9:3 "Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.

And this version.

Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.

And this version.

Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and just as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.

Every green plant is edible just as every living thing is edible. Now we know that there are some green plants that are not edible just as we know there are some animals that are not edible. As time moves forward through trial and error we will soon learn which is which.

Even to this day we are still trying new and different foods in order to learn what is edible and what is not. This is one of the many joys of life and learning.

Do you think that Leviticus has covered every animal that we should and should not eat? Think about that for a little while.

Isn't God a good God?
 
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Sophia7

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Do you think that Leviticus has covered every animal that we should and should not eat? Think about that for a little while.

What about an emu? Is it clean or unclean? That question has come up in our churches a few times. Leviticus doesn't mention it.
 
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maco

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The separation of clean and unclean animals in Leviticus and Deuteronomy is not the means bywhich we make a mood healthy or unhealthy. These separation guidlines are more a cerimonial or a means of identity used to make a people different from the others. If you do some research you will find that there are animals in the clean catogory that one would not eat just like you would find green plants in the world that you would not eat.

The reason for this is because this separation of clean and unclean foods was not for health reasons, though we can very easily make it a health reason. The clean and unclean foods, the separation of seeds, thread and livestock was for the purpose of identity, not a health message.

The separation of Jew and Gentile, male and female, slave or free, as well as the means of separation no longer exist when we're in Christ.

To bring them back into the salvation picture is to rebuild the wall that the cross of Christ tore down.

I agree that there is a certain appeal to human reasoning to bring these things back into the faith for health reasons but they were never intended for that purpose.

Right now as it stands it is sinful for an SDA to eat outside of the Levitical and Deuteromony guidlines for separation. But only in the area of meat, not thread, seed or livestock which was just as wrong for a separated Jew to do.

Circumcision was also a separation thing for God's people. Listen carefully to what is said in the following verses.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

If they were to become circumised they would need to keep the whole law of outward separation. In doing this we make Christ unprophitable and we become estragned from Christ.

Do we deny the cross of Christ with enforcing the separation law?
 
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RC_NewProtestants

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Maco wrote:

One thing we should remember is that Genesis is a very brief account of things and we are probably misusing it if we don't realize that the writer like any other writer makes generalization. As not every green thing is edible for humans. A wooden literalism such as some fundamentalists and atheist use would say look here the Bible says every moving thing and every green plant is food for people. That is not true so the Bible is false. We have to look at the context and writer conventions.

Just another reason why we have to get past the idea that the Bible is the word of God because it implies that God designed every word and that is exactly what God wanted to have written. Instead we should as Ellen White correctly noted see the writers expressing themselves in human language and cultural and language conventions present. So you can exaggerate in the Bible, you can say something that is not true in the Bible and it can have errors and fallacious arguments also. Far better to say the Bible may contain words of God then the much more unlikely and over reaching idea that the Bible is the Word of God.
 
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djconklin

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Far better to say the Bible may contain words of God then the much more unlikely and over reaching idea that the Bible is the Word of God.

It is more likely that some people's concept of the Bible is the Word of God to man that is "unlikely and over-reaching."
 
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djconklin

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Leviticus 11:13-19 13 ¶ And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, 14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind; 15 Every raven after his kind; 16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, 17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl, 18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle, 19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

Looks like anything that eats other animals is a not clean.
 
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maco

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Many clean animals eat other living things such as fish. Fish eat worms, clam necks, as well as, many other bait items. Chickens and other clean birds eat worms also. I'm sure if you do some research you will probably find many more.
 
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