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do u have to hold yur jaw just right to find God?

jimtem

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Whenever I needed an explanation on how to do something and my Dad could not explain the magic needed to make it happen he use to say that you would have to hold your jaw just right. Meaning that he didn't know how you do it -you just do it. So here I am, on CF, at a loss. What to try next?

About me: I grew up thinking that the majority of the world was composed of Atheists. I was floored in my teenage years when I realized that 95% of the world believed in something more than science. I was horribly upset, confused and felt so lost and divorced from society. I had met a few ultra verbal Christens in my life but hadn’t suspected that I was in such a minority until my mid teens. So I began talking to anyone who would care to share their thoughts on faith. I read dozens of books on Christianity, began going to Youth for Christ, listened to Christian talk shows, listening to Christian music, found a nice Christian girlfriend and tried to read the Bible. I began to pray daily but after about a year I gave up because I never felt the presence of God nor could I believe in any way how a God could possibly exist.

In my mid twenties I began to read books about world religions just so I could try and understand how the majority of the world thought and felt so differently than myself. In my early thirties I began listening to Christian VS. Atheist debates and began to feel as if I were an Atheist. Then I moved to the bible-belt and was surrounded by Christians. So I began to reanalyze the difference between myself and the majority of the population. I began to pray daily, began to read the bible and would stay up late every night listening to persons of faith talk about sin nature, grace and forgiveness. I prayed the sinner’s prayer and begged God to come into my life.

I never heard, felt or sensed anything other than a man, in his thirties, upset, as his family slept.

So, that is the current state of things. My question is, how did you give your life to God? What happened next? Did you feel Gods presence?
 

oi_antz

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Whenever I needed an explanation on how to do something and my Dad could not explain the magic needed to make it happen he use to say that you would have to hold your jaw just right. Meaning that he didn't know how you do it -you just do it. So here I am, on CF, at a loss. What to try next?

About me: I grew up thinking that the majority of the world was composed of Atheists. I was floored in my teenage years when I realized that 95% of the world believed in something more than science. I was horribly upset, confused and felt so lost and divorced from society. I had met a few ultra verbal Christens in my life but hadn’t suspected that I was in such a minority until my mid teens. So I began talking to anyone who would care to share their thoughts on faith. I read dozens of books on Christianity, began going to Youth for Christ, listened to Christian talk shows, listening to Christian music, found a nice Christian girlfriend and tried to read the Bible. I began to pray daily but after about a year I gave up because I never felt the presence of God nor could I believe in any way how a God could possibly exist.

In my mid twenties I began to read books about world religions just so I could try and understand how the majority of the world thought and felt so differently than myself. In my early thirties I began listening to Christian VS. Atheist debates and began to feel as if I were an Atheist. Then I moved to the bible-belt and was surrounded by Christians. So I began to reanalyze the difference between myself and the majority of the population. I began to pray daily, began to read the bible and would stay up late every night listening to persons of faith talk about sin nature, grace and forgiveness. I prayed the sinner’s prayer and begged God to come into my life.

I never heard, felt or sensed anything other than a man, in his thirties, upset, as his family slept.

So, that is the current state of things. My question is, how did you give your life to God? What happened next? Did you feel Gods presence?

Hello Jimtem, I can see from your posts that you're interested in knowing the truth of who God is, you're not like the typical atheist troll who wants to come and prove how right they are to not believe in God. So I'm interested in discovering the root of the problem you have with accepting God for who He is. I just wonder what your current perception of God is, because we tend to pick up a lot of ideas through life about this, and it forms a kind of mental image, perhaps of an artist painting a canvas that grows, and then watching it grow. So what I want to tell you about that, is what I learned when I came to accept what He says, that whatever someone tells you about God is probably not going to benefit your understanding of Him if you don't know Him personally. This is what I discovered: that hearing about God is entirely different from hearing from God. Of course, it wasn't until I accepted that God is the one who the Bible tells us about, that I was able to accept that the Bible is the official "Word of God". What does that mean to you? I'll tell you what it means to me, that the person who claims to be the artist of the world has spoken to and interacted with humanity on many occasions, and some relevant bits of this activity are documented in the Bible. If you believe it is true, you will be hearing the truth about what He has done on earth. If you don't believe it is true, then you simply can't hear the truth about God, because you've already decided to believe that it isn't true. Anyhow, anyone can tell someone what they know until they go blue in the face, but it is the listener's decision to make whether they will hear what the speaker is saying. The listener decides whether to accept, reject or distort what is said.

Now, since you asked for a description of what it was like when I converted, I'm going to give you a brief overview, because I could easily get carried off with detail. I was baptized at age 17. At that time I had been involved in a small remnant of a larger church, where the Holy Spirit was strong and genuine among the believers. However, I didn't understand spirituality, I was attracted to the story of Jesus and all the stories of the Bible because I had a lot of love for life and respect for whoever God is, which I trusted to be the one who Jesus spoke of. So I was baptized young. Then when I left my hometown to study, I never got involved in another church (part of this was due to feeling that my belief was better than anyone else's), so I gradually drifted further away from Jesus and at one point even had a falling out with God over the issue of lust, and then when I had a fall-out with my father, I renounced the Bible in hurt and became quite anti-Christ, even idolizing the antichrist and believing I was capable of being that person. Then just last year, after I'd graduated and was stable in good employment, I happened to watch a movie called "Religulous" by Bill Mahr, and it was right up my alley. This movie heavily challenged Christian beliefs and brushed upon Islam and Judaism, then summarized so strongly YouTube - Religulous - Ending Scene that it got my hackles up. I agreed with Bill that religion is not a good thing for the world, then Google Buzz sent me a thread where people were discussing the assumption of what God is. I put my 2 cents in and sure enough, since I was so wound up, I got right involved in the discussion. This topic took my thoughts day and night for three weeks until eventually I was so frustrated that I knew within myself I love life, I want to give praise to the one who gave it to me, but why is it that I couldn't say my beliefs were true without having some doubt? So I was sufficiently ready to finally hear what God had to say, and I only gave Him one chance to speak, but I was genuinely ready to listen. And I think that is the problem we all have as we fight to establish what is the truth about God, we are literally fighting against God with every reason we can muster to prove how correct we are. But that isn't what you need to do when you want to know the truth about God. All you have to do is listen to what He is telling you and be honest about what you believe is right for the sake of being right about Him. Don't argue if you don't agree, don't say that what He says is not true, but just listen and try to learn, because God is the creator of everything and the single source of wisdom. Just accept what you can accept, think about what you can't comprehend, and swallow your pride when you know that He's telling you that you are wrong. I know when I was ready to hear Him and I asked the Christians on that thread to show me something from the Bible that God wanted me to know, what He said to me made so much more sense than I could ever make of my own and quite clearly, what He told me was a lot more than what the verse says. Now, you want to know what changed, what it felt like? I'll tell you what it felt like when I turned my back on the evil that gripped me, the fear that the world is watching me (Truman show), threats that any moment now the government is going to barge in and take me away (which proved when it didn't happen, that this world belongs to God), instant and unjustified rebuke from my close friends when I told them the good news of my salvation, even implying that "holy" is not a good thing, a constant battle "yes/no" in my thoughts to try and get me to fear Satan, being referred to a mental crisis team by my employer for simply mentioning my faith (of course, the level of certainty a Christian puts in what they say can be frightening), and for the first few days a personal one-on-one dialog with God the Father (the Father Jesus refers to), as He lifted me up, out of fear and into His love. Yes, this was a very real spiritual experience and all that stuff really happened to me. Anyhow, I don't want to scare you with how real the spiritual matters are because Jesus is supreme, but let's discuss your particular problem with coming to know God. I would like to examine your attitude toward Jesus, can you tell me whether you accept this passage, particularly the sentence I underlined, because I think this is the crux of the Christian faith:

Mark 1:1-13 (New Living Translation)

Mark 1

John the Baptist Prepares the Way

1 This is the Good News about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God.[a] It began 2 just as the prophet Isaiah had written:
“Look, I am sending my messenger ahead of you,
and he will prepare your way.
3 He is a voice shouting in the wilderness,
‘Prepare the way for the Lord’s coming!
Clear the road for him!’[c]”

4 This messenger was John the Baptist. He was in the wilderness and preached that people should be baptized to show that they had repented of their sins and turned to God to be forgiven. 5 All of Judea, including all the people of Jerusalem, went out to see and hear John. And when they confessed their sins, he baptized them in the Jordan River. 6 His clothes were woven from coarse camel hair, and he wore a leather belt around his waist. For food he ate locusts and wild honey.

7 John announced: “Someone is coming soon who is greater than I am—so much greater that I’m not even worthy to stoop down like a slave and untie the straps of his sandals. 8 I baptize you with[d] water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit!”

The Baptism and Temptation of Jesus

9 One day Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee, and John baptized him in the Jordan River. 10 As Jesus came up out of the water, he saw the heavens splitting apart and the Holy Spirit descending on him[e] like a dove. 11 And a voice from heaven said, “You are my dearly loved Son, and you bring me great joy.”
12 The Spirit then compelled Jesus to go into the wilderness, 13 where he was tempted by Satan for forty days. He was out among the wild animals, and angels took care of him.

Is this passage something you understand fully? Do you realize that the magnificent artist who made a perceivably infinite universe and trillions of humans opened the heavens and sent His spirit upon Jesus at His baptism? Do you understand that this really happened, or do you presume this is just a myth?

Just so you know what I'm saying is that you need to discover a reason to honor God. For me, that reason was the fact that I was upset with the chaos in the world, and I just had to get to the bottom of it. Just so happened that everything I thought was right got turned on it's head and then I discovered that God is right at all times. Now here I am on the other side of the fence, chatting to you about how green the pasture is over here! But if you think the human follows a carrot on a stick, you'll probably soon realize that the ones with an integral interest in truth aren't so easy to persuade ;)
 
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razeontherock

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Ho to the OP - the previous poster has certainly given you a lot to think about!

As a trumpet player I like your title ^_^ there's certainly plenty of "magic" going on to make that work, as almost all of it is unseen and therefore very difficult to learn. And even when you get it right, you can be thoroughly in the dark as to what you did right, be unable to repeat it, and that can also be frustrating.

So here's my thoughts on what got things going FOR ME:


1. Approach the Bible with the attitude that it is God speaking to you, telling you about how to relate to Him. Pray with a quiet, meditative spirit, for exactly that. Ask Him to show Himself strong to you, in ways you haven't known yet. It's ok to stir up your hunger, but try not to let that stir up your emotions.

2. Do this every morning, and every evening. We can talk about Scriptural reasons in depth later, but it is God's way.

3. As you read, anything that looks good PRAY FOR IT. Specific examples I've found powerful:

a. Is 50:4 "The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to [him that is] weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned. (Jesus got this, prophetically. (Jesus got this, prophetically. Talk about humility!)

b. “That[bless and do not curse]the[bless and do not curse]God[bless and do not curse]of[bless and do not curse]our Lord Jesus Christ,[bless and do not curse]the[bless and do not curse]Father[bless and do not curse]of[bless and do not curse]glory, may give unto you[bless and do not curse]the[bless and do not curse]spirit[bless and do not curse]of[bless and do not curse]wisdom[bless and do not curse]and[bless and do not curse]revelation[bless and do not curse]in[bless and do not curse]the knowledge[bless and do not curse]of[bless and do not curse]him:” Eph 1:17

c. Realize EVERY instance of "the wicked man" in Proverbs is you (me / us).
Yeah, ouch.

4. If there's time for more involved praying after this, fine; but more likely there will be other things you need to go do. Don't think they take you away from God because they DON'T! Just don't leave home w/o Him. It's in the doing that prayer seems to be most helpful. "Pray w/o ceasing," keep a prayerful attitude; there is room in His kingdom for our own unique style. The calling is to abundant LIFE.


We're here for you man :groupray:
 
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bling

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Not a small subject.

You seem to be saying, “I want to be a Christian so I can fit in.” If so that is really not a very good reason. If you are surrounded by “true” Christians they Love you truly care about you and will not push you to do anything you do not want to do.

I do not blame you if you do not want to join a fun loving social club presented as the Christian Church and understand why you would “feel” nothing by being a part of it.

I am really sorry you have not met Christ first hand eyeball to eyeball, been comforted by His embrace, been assured He is going to be with you through thick and thin. That is the way Christianity is to come to you and not with some book. Christ actually dwells inside true Christians and works through them to help you, but unfortunately there are in this country few true Christians and many club members calling themselves Christians.

Finding God is not the problem, but wanting to find and allowing yourself to accept the true God is a problem. Are you truly wanting a totally unselfish, sacrificial, partner? Do you really need to trust in a benevolent Creator to forgive you of your sins, remove the burden of sin and partner with you for life.

To truly accept God’s forgiveness as a free undeserving and unconditional gift is to accept Charity from a giver that has made a huge sacrifice to give the gift. If we truly accept the gift correctly we will Love much since …He that is forgiven much will Love much…

 
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Bear.Fr00t

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I have a few questions to help me understand where you are coming from:

1. Did you read the whole Bible? If not which parts did you read?
2. When you read the gospels did you believe Jesus is who he claims? Do you believe He did what the Bible claims, and can do what He claims He can do now?
3. Do you have a clear understanding of sin - do you believe yourself to be a sinner in need of God's grace?
4. Do you understand (I mean REALLY understand) what transpired on the cross?
 
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LWB

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Jimtem!

I first became interested in the concept of God when as a young child I peeked into a dark church and saw a symbolic light depicting His presence (a feature of Catholic churches). Something about that consistent little red glow, all alone in that large, creepy church, electrified my mind. I guess the hairs on the back of my head went erect, as a primeval, superstitious awe filled my body.

Since that day, seeking God has been the driving passion of my life. So I find it hard to relate to your experience.

1. I've read and continue to study the entire Bible.

2. When I first read the Gospel as a kid, I didn't understand what I do today, but I certainly believed it. At times I've read it in unbelief, wanting to find flaws. I believe the Gospels give a literal testimony concerning the life of Jesus.

3. I had a crystal clear understanding of sin, even as that child peeking into the dark, creepy church, for I had taken pleasure pouring salt on snails and defacing my Bible with profanity to shock classmates. Now my understanding of sin is more complex, and more damning. I am a sinner in need of Grace.

4. I have an understanding of what transpired on the cross, but am curious what you believe the real understanding to be.

I wish you well in your exploration, and am happy to answer any other questions you might have.
 
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jimtem

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............. I just wonder what your current perception of God is,

I imagine God to be a being that created all that exists. I also imagine that throughout time, most of what we have come to think about God is little better than guesses.

This is what I discovered: that hearing about God is entirely different from hearing from God.
I can imagine it would be.

Of course, it wasn't until I accepted that God is the one who the Bible tells us about, that I was able to accept that the Bible is the official "Word of God". What does that mean to you?

It is impossible for it to mean anything to me other than an story since I don't feel God's existence. That is the problem with being an atheist, the bible and any other ideas or information about God is like telling a person about your 11th sense and asking them what it means to them. I cant tell you what I feel about my 11th sense because I am not feeling my 11th sense. I mean no disrespect. I'm just trying to answer your question honestly from the situation I'm in.


If you believe it is true, you will be hearing the truth about what He has done on earth. If you don't believe it is true, then you simply can't hear the truth about God, because you've already decided to believe that it isn't true.

I don't feel that I believe or disbelieve anything. If I did I wouldn't be trying to figure things out.

can you tell me whether you accept this passage, particularly the sentence I underlined, because I think this is the crux of the Christian faith:

10 As Jesus came up out of the water, he saw the heavens splitting apart and the Holy Spirit descending on him[e] like a dove

Is this passage something you understand fully? Do you realize that the magnificent artist who made a perceivably infinite universe and trillions of humans opened the heavens and sent His spirit upon Jesus at His baptism? Do you understand that this really happened, or do you presume this is just a myth?

I cant say that it is the truth or a myth.
 
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oi_antz

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I cant say that it is the truth or a myth.
Ok I can see you possibly think it is "safer" to be non-committing, but what do you see as the implication of considering this piece of history as truth versus the implication of considering it as myth?
 
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jimtem

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You seem to be saying, “I want to be a Christian so I can fit in.”

No, I just want to live as I should.

Finding God is not the problem, but wanting to find and allowing yourself to accept the true God is a problem. Are you truly wanting a totally unselfish, sacrificial, partner? Do you really need to trust in a benevolent Creator to forgive you of your sins, remove the burden of sin and partner with you for life?

Do I want a partner? Yes. Do I need the burden of sin removed? Since I haven't felt Gods existence the idea of sin hasn't meant anything to me. I would have to answer no on this question.
 
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jimtem

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I have thought about this for several years and I feel I can cut to the chase but I may be wrong. I feel I have done everything I can possibly do to bring God into my life and still cant feel that anything more that science exists. I imaging this discussion will be reduced to the notion that I am not sincere in my request for God. Can anyone tell me had you asked for God to come into your life and felt nothing but then asked a gain later and felt God, later realizing that you initial request was not sincere? Or that you initially were not ready to listen?
 
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laconicstudent

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I have thought about this for several years and I feel I can cut to the chase but I may be wrong. I feel I have done everything I can possibly do to bring God into my life and still cant feel that anything more that science exists. I imaging this discussion will be reduced to the notion that I am not sincere in my request for God. Can anyone tell me had you asked for God to come into your life and felt nothing but then asked a gain later and felt God, later realizing that you initial request was not sincere? Or that you initially were not ready to listen?

Have you spoken with a priest, or other religious like a monastic at all? Guidance could help.
 
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jimtem

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I have a few questions to help me understand where you are coming from:

1. Did you read the whole Bible? If not which parts did you read?
2. When you read the gospels did you believe Jesus is who he claims? Do you believe He did what the Bible claims, and can do what He claims He can do now?
3. Do you have a clear understanding of sin - do you believe yourself to be a sinner in need of God's grace?
4. Do you understand (I mean REALLY understand) what transpired on the cross?

I have read random pages throughout. I am sure I have read pieces of the Gospels and I cant say that I believe that Jesus is who he claims. I think to REALLY understand I would probably have to believe in the ideas you have mentioned but for me it is currently just stories that may or may not be true.
 
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jimtem

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4. I have an understanding of what transpired on the cross, but am curious what you believe the real understanding to be.

I think a real understanding would be knowledge of the information, (cognitive understanding), feeling for what the information means, (emotional understanding), and a deep sense that the information is more meaningful, and more magnificent than a human could understand, (spiritual understanding).

All I have is the cognitive part.
 
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jimtem

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Ok I can see you possibly think it is "safer" to be non-committing, but what do you see as the implication of considering this piece of history as truth versus the implication of considering it as myth?

The implication of considering it as truth? Nothing happens. I can consider it as true but it does not become true for me.
 
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oi_antz

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I have thought about this for several years and I feel I can cut to the chase but I may be wrong. I feel I have done everything I can possibly do to bring God into my life and still cant feel that anything more that science exists. I imaging this discussion will be reduced to the notion that I am not sincere in my request for God. Can anyone tell me had you asked for God to come into your life and felt nothing but then asked a gain later and felt God, later realizing that you initial request was not sincere? Or that you initially were not ready to listen?
Hi Jimtem, I think it is quite common to see people who would like to know that God is who they think He is, and it's common to see people become frustrated that He doesn't just appear to them and become real when they think they most desperately need it. But I'm not in God's position to say why, who or when He chooses to present Himself to a person, or that what the person expects God to do for them is anything more than asking for a sign - in other words, a declaration of disbelief.

So I can't authoritatively tell you why God doesn't seem real to you, because I'm just another guy you might bump into on a street. But I would say on this matter you have to decide where you stand on the topic of Jesus. Everyone has some sort of opinion about Him. You could choose to believe that He is the one who you have been told about by the people who know Him. You could choose to believe that He's fraudulent or fake. You could even choose to believe that He never even walked on earth.

Whatever you believe about Jesus is going to have some consequence to your relationship with His Father, either you will come closer to knowing the God who gave Him the Holy Spirit, or your heart will grow harder toward God. So it would pay to examine the motives you have for your beliefs, be honest about what you are tending to believe, and why you prefer to have those beliefs.

If it is somehow due to the idea that the Bible seems to contradict what science has told you, remember what I said that if you can't comprehend something God says, don't just reject it but think about it instead. We aren't actually expected to understand everything that God understands, but if you want to know His love, you will at least need to accept what He says with a heart that respects what He says. And this is quite different from accepting what your pastor says, or your Christian friends say, or what your science teachers say.

We have to make our own mind up about these things, it is foolish to take someone's teaching as gospel when you know within yourself that this is not the truth. However, what you're tending to say is the opposite: that you don't know whether the gospels of Jesus are the truth, and I guess until you decide how you want to regard Jesus, then you'll not be able to move forward.

All I have is the cognitive part.
I think you probably don't know the extent of overlap between spirituality and cognition, that's all.
 
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jimtem

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Have you spoken with a priest, or other religious like a monastic at all? Guidance could help.

Yes, in the last 17 years I have spoken to several Pastors, had a long email discussion with the creator of a Christian radio show, talked to dozens of Christian friends and am currently doing a lot of back and forth q and a with one of my coworkers who is a senior at a bible college and has just been ordained this past week. She is a wonderful genius, a brilliant teacher, speaker, very patient and is incredibly knowledgeable on all things religious. We don't get much of a chance to talk though since were both insanely busy.
 
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jimtem

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Hi Jimtem, I think it is quite common to see people who would like to know that God is who they think He is, and it's common to see people become frustrated that He doesn't just appear to them and become real when they think they most desperately need it. But I'm not in God's position to say why, who or when He chooses to present Himself to a person, or that what the person expects God to do for them is anything more than asking for a sign - in other words, a declaration of disbelief.

So I can't authoritatively tell you why God doesn't seem real to you, because I'm just another guy you might bump into on a street. But I would say on this matter you have to decide where you stand on the topic of Jesus. Everyone has some sort of opinion about Him. You could choose to believe that He is the one who you have been told about by the people who know Him. You could choose to believe that He's fraudulent or fake. You could even choose to believe that He never even walked on earth.

Whatever you believe about Jesus is going to have some consequence to your relationship with His Father, either you will come closer to knowing the God who gave Him the Holy Spirit, or your heart will grow harder toward God. So it would pay to examine the motives you have for your beliefs, be honest about what you are tending to believe, and why you prefer to have those beliefs.

If it is somehow due to the idea that the Bible seems to contradict what science has told you, remember what I said that if you can't comprehend something God says, don't just reject it but think about it instead. We aren't actually expected to understand everything that God understands, but if you want to know His love, you will at least need to accept what He says with a heart that respects what He says. And this is quite different from accepting what your pastor says, or your Christian friends say, or what your science teachers say.

We have to make our own mind up about these things, it is foolish to take someone's teaching as gospel when you know within yourself that this is not the truth. However, what you're tending to say is the opposite: that you don't know whether the gospels of Jesus are the truth, and I guess until you decide how you want to regard Jesus, then you'll not be able to move forward.


I think you probably don't know the extent of overlap between spirituality and cognition, that's all.

So what you are saying is that I should decide. I should decide that things relating to faith are true and then I will feel that god exists? What you are saying is that I should decide that Jesus is who he claims to be and then I will know that Jesus is who he claims to be? Is there another way you can explain this because it sounds like I need to know god exists so that I can know that god exists.

I really appreciate your help. I may be missing the idea. but this is whet I am struggling with. It's awful nice of you to take the time to help me out.
 
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jimtem

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My discussions with people and discussions with myself seem to be reducible to the ideas that:

1) I am not able to feel Gods existence because I am not sincere in my desire to feel Gods existence and that God is speaking to me but that I am not listening. (I am not sure how I can be any more since though. If I have failed to convince humans that I am sincere that is one thing but if there is a God then I guarantee he know that I am sincere.)

2) I am wanting proof of God first before I have faith in God. (I understand that faith in part means believing in something when there is no concrete proof however if a person feels Gods existence then that is their proof and they begin to believe but a person cannot believe if they have no sense or feeling that God exists. If I tell you to know that fairies exist and then you will feel that faeries exist I promise you will never know or feel that fairies exist. So to say that I need to decide to believe in God first is to say that I need to flip my God switch, which I have no concept of.)
 
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oi_antz

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So what you are saying is that I should decide. I should decide that things relating to faith are true and then I will feel that god exists? What you are saying is that I should decide that Jesus is who he claims to be and then I will know that Jesus is who he claims to be? Is there another way you can explain this because it sounds like I need to know god exists so that I can know that god exists.

I really appreciate your help. I may be missing the idea. but this is whet I am struggling with. It's awful nice of you to take the time to help me out.

Yes, you will have to decide, there's no way that you can't. I mean, you have already decided that you don't want to have an opinion about Jesus, but that itself indicates that you don't believe He is who He is said to be. So it comes back to what I said at the end of my opening post, you need to discover what reason you have to honor God. Until you do that, well, you don't even know what reason you have to honor God.
 
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oi_antz

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My discussions with people and discussions with myself seem to be reducible to the ideas that:

1) I am not able to feel Gods existence because I am not sincere in my desire to feel Gods existence and that God is speaking to me but that I am not listening. (I am not sure how I can be any more since though. If I have failed to convince humans that I am sincere that is one thing but if there is a God then I guarantee he know that I am sincere.)

2) I am wanting proof of God first before I have faith in God. (I understand that faith in part means believing in something when there is no concrete proof however if a person feels Gods existence then that is their proof and they begin to believe but a person cannot believe if they have no sense or feeling that God exists. If I tell you to know that fairies exist and then you will feel that faeries exist I promise you will never know or feel that fairies exist. So to say that I need to decide to believe in God first is to say that I need to flip my God switch, which I have no concept of.)

1) I don't have any reason to question the way you feel about it.
2) The record of history that is pertinent to anyone's faith in Jesus is there in black and white, AFAIC that is all the proof anyone needs that God has done what He has done. You have to decide if you want to believe it, or if you want to not believe it.
 
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