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Do non-Christians go to Hell?

SkyWriting

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Hello there. I know of several 'Non Christians' that the bible says categorically are in heaven- Abraham, Moses, Elijah.

So, I stand corrected. People could get into Heaven before Jesus was born then.
So even reading scripture was not a requirement, or hearing about Jesus.
 
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SkyWriting

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Not all non-Christians will be in Hell. Neither will all Christians be in Heaven. It all depends on the state you die in.

God is not concerned with timing. He lives in the past and future, just the same.
 
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JamieRedheadUK

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Just curious, what are your thoughts on non-Christians and the afterlife? Do you personally believe that all non-Christians are going to Hell, and if so then why?

To answer your question yes. Because all of humanity is going to hell because of God’s justice. He gave us the route for salvation through Jesus Christ and those that reject Him therefore do not have that salvation from his righteous anger against our natural sin.
 
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Peripatetic

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There are many interpretations of scripture related to Hell/Gehenna/Sheol/etc. Most of us don't have nearly enough education in the original languages, historical contexts, and literary forms to speak with authority on this question. So I don't know exactly what Hell is or who will be there, but I find myself hoping for more on the redemption side than punitive justice. Sometimes I think, "I'm not a universalist, but I hope I'm wrong."
 
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hedrick

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Education in the original languages won't solve the problem, because there were differing opinions in the 1st Cent. There was a tendency for Hades to be used for punishment that would end, and Gehenna for permanent. But only a tendency. There are well known statements that most people would get out of Gehenna.

I don't think lexicons are going to solve this. You need to look at what the various people are saying with the words.

The is the liberal group, so I can say what is true, which is that the authors may not have agreed. The most natural interpretation of Paul is universalist, or possibly annihilation. I read the Revelation as annihilation.

I'm less clear on Jesus. One thing that is obvious is that there is a spectrum of both rewards and punishments. But I think the Synoptics would be consistent with annihilation, temporary punishment, eternal punishment, or a mix. I suspect Jesus had in mind one common Jewish view, which is punishment that ends, with maybe a few exceptions (blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, if that actually goes back to him). But it's also not clear how literally Jesus meant any of this.

Study of word use isn't going to solve this. That's why we have continuing disagreements.
 
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hedrick

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The reasons I suspect that punishment is temporary are:
* That would make him consistent with Paul
* Jesus says we should forgive because God does
* In the statement about the sin against the Holy Spirit, he says everything will be forgiven except that.

All of these passages can be given other interpretations, but I think this is the most likely.
 
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SkyWriting

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The "punishment" is not joining with God to be the perfect you
that you are intended to be. There is no worse punishment.
 
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MatthewG27

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I do not believe any one will go to hell from my own belief. In the Last 2 Chapters of the Bible it talks about a City of God, where there are gates that never close, and that those who were murders, liars, basically whom are called dogs are right outside the gate...

I also believe the bible has stated that God desires all men to come to the knowledge and truth about his son Jesus Christ, and wants all to come to Him. The bible even goes as far as to say that all men shall confess that Jesus is the Christ/Lord.

I believe that people who are outside the gate, are able to pass through it at any given point in time.

Is it not interesting that in funerals no one ever goes to hell? Which was really just She'ol in the Old Testament, which every one went to, even those that died in the 'flood'. It stated in 2 Peter that Jesus Christ went and visited with those who where in the prison part of She'ol, they had no law against them because they died before the law was ever instated.

Then Jesus Christ came and fulfilled the law, and paid for every single person sin. I find it interesting to say the least.
 
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98cwitr

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mod hat on

Thread has been moved from Whosoever Will, May Come - Liberal to Contraversial Christian Theology. As a reminder, all threads and post both must adhere to Statement of Purpose and Statement of Faith on Christian Forums.

mod hat off
 
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Der Alte

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<MG>I do not believe any one will go to hell from my own belief. In the Last 2 Chapters of the Bible it talks about a City of God, where there are gates that never close, and that those who were murders, liars, basically whom are called dogs are right outside the gate...
I also believe the bible has stated that God desires all men to come to the knowledge and truth about his son Jesus Christ, and wants all to come to Him. The bible even goes as far as to say that all men shall confess that Jesus is the Christ/Lord.
I believe that people who are outside the gate, are able to pass through it at any given point in time.
Is it not interesting that in funerals no one ever goes to hell? Which was really just She'ol in the Old Testament, which every one went to, even those that died in the 'flood'. It stated in 2 Peter that Jesus Christ went and visited with those who where in the prison part of She'ol, they had no law against them because they died before the law was ever instated.
Then Jesus Christ came and fulfilled the law, and paid for every single person sin. I find it interesting to say the least.<MG>
Prison is never called sheol and sheol is never called prison in the Bible. In that scripture Jesus was not preaching to anyone in hell/sheol the only people saved by His preaching was Noah and his family and they were alive, not dead.
…..According to three irrefutable Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, quoted below, among the Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus there was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom.
…..Clarification: There were different groups within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and there were different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. That there were other beliefs does not rebut, refute, change or disprove anything in this post.

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);
[Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT supposed bias of Christian translators. DA]
(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [ שׁאול /Sheol]] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).

Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
=================
Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.

…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.. Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Gehinnom
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.
When Jesus taught about e.g.,
• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12
These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned the existing Jewish view of eternal hell, outlined above. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence. A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.” The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent. When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as merely death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,

“‘Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4
…..Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong, why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which only reinforced those beliefs.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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What is your "own belief" in then, if not in God's Word, Plan and Purpose in Jesus ?

I do not believe any one will go to hell from my own belief.

I believe that people who are outside the gate, are able to pass through it at any given point in time.
Why would you choose to believe this ? On what basis ? Feelings? Emotions? Even 'hope'? (though it would be a false hope, contrary to all God's Plan and different than His Word Says)
 
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Butch5

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Just curious, what are your thoughts on non-Christians and the afterlife? Do you personally believe that all non-Christians are going to Hell, and if so then why?

I believe according to the Scriptures the only "afterlife" is the Resurrection and no one has experienced that except Jesus. Concerning what most modern day Christians call Hell, it doesn't exist. It's a myth. In the Scriptures hell is the grave. The Scriptures speak of Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus. Hades is the grave. Gehenna is the Lake of Fire, and Tartarus is reserved for angles. So non-Christians go to Hades, the grave, along with everyone else. According to John not found in the Book of Life will be cast into the Lake of Fire which is Gehenna.
 
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Der Alte

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Please see my [post #50] above.
.....According to three irrefutable Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, among the Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus there was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom. "Sheol" is translated "hades" in Greek. "Ge hinnom" is transliterated "Gehenna" in Greek. Jesus and His disciples were born into and grew up in this society and would have been knowledgeable of the belief in hell.
.....The rich man in Luke 16 after he died was in "Hades." He had some kind of consciousness and was experiencing torment in flames. Jesus did not introduce this narrative as a parable and He did not explain it later. All of the early church fathers who quoted or referred to this story considered it to be factual.
.....While those whose names are not found in the book of life are thrown into the lake of fire [LoF] not one verse says that anyone/anything is thrown into the LoF then they die. The only reference to what happens after someone/something is thrown into the LoF is Rev 20:10. Three living beings, one the false prophet was a person, are thrown into the LoF but they do not die they are tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
= = = = = = = = =
Revelation 21:4-8
(4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
(5) And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
(6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
(7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
(8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
.....In Rev 21:4 A great voice from heaven says, "there shall be no more death."
In Rev 21:5, the voice says, "I make all things new."
In Rev 21:6, the voice says, "it is done."
In Rev 21:8, the voice says eight groups of people will be thrown into the LoF and "shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
If there is no more death after vs. 4 then these 8 groups of people do not die
 
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