Do Lutherans believe in being born-again or saved?

[christianmomof3]

Do Lutherans believe in being born-again or saved? My husband's family is Lutheran and he was brought up in that church and he never heard anything about being born-again or saved in the churches he met with. He did say that in one of the Lutheran churches that they met in they got a new preacher and he leaned more towards teaching salvation and my husband's parents did not like that preacher and they changed to a different church. So, do different Lutheran churches have different teachings regarding salvation?
Thank you

 

[KEPLER]

Sometimes it's just a confusion of terms, CMof3.

Born Again = Saved = Justification (see Romans 4 & 5)

Lutherans are more apt to speak of salvation in terms of "Justification", but this term is synonymous with the other terms. Hope that helps.

Justification by Grace Alone, through Faith Alone, for the sake of Christ Alone.

Kepler

 

[IowaLutheran]

"Jesus answered him, ‘Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above." John 3:3.

I like that translation better than "born again" because the "above" part emphasizes that we are reborn from above through the power of the Spirit and not through the power of our intellect.

Here's the Lutheran explanation on how we are "justified" or "saved":

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"I believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Ghost has called me by the Gospel, enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith; even as He calls, gathers, enlightens, and sanctifies the whole Christian Church on earth, and keeps it with Jesus Christ in the one true faith; in which Christian Church He forgives daily and richly all sins to me and all believers, and at the last day will raise up me and all the dead, and will give to me and to all believers in Christ everlasting life." [/FONT]

http://www.bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.html#creed

 

[LilLamb219]

Do Lutherans believe in being born-again or saved? My husband's family is Lutheran and he was brought up in that church and he never heard anything about being born-again or saved in the churches he met with.

It's very possible that perhaps your husband's family is not used to the type of modern terminology that is given to the terms "born again" and "saved" by today's evangelicals.

Being born again comes from the John 3 verse So, Jesus says to Nicodemus: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God…unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (John 3:3; 5).

I've read that it was common for Jews to baptize Gentiles that converted and they were then called "newborns". Jesus' language in the John 3 verse is speaking about baptism where we are born again by Word and water.

Lutherans do not ask when someone got saved. We do not believe in decision theology since scriptures state that before conversion we are spiritually dead and that we did not choose but are chosen. Lutherans speak of salvation, but we do not look to ourselves, we look to Christ and the cross.

At our baptisms, God covers us in the righteousness of Christ, washes away our sins and gives us forgiveness and the gift of the Holy Spirit. The connection to the cross is that Jesus forgave our sins at the cross and in our baptism all the benefits are applied to us.

If you were to ask your husband's family about baptism or justification, you would get an earful

 

[stumpjumper]

Lutherans do not ask when someone got saved. We do not believe in decision theology since scriptures state that before conversion we are spiritually dead and that we did not choose but are chosen. Lutherans speak of salvation, but we do not look to ourselves, we look to Christ and the cross.

I abolutely agree.

Here's some Karl Barth for everybody. He was speaking as a Lutheran (Confessing Church actually) and not a Reformed theologian when he wrote this:

"In faith we acknowledge that we deserve wrath and rejection, the wrath and rejection which Jesus Christ has taken upon Himself in our place, in order to place us, whose life is glorified in Him, in the light of divine grace. We can only choose as men who have already been chosen!"

 

[christianmomof3]

Lutherans do not ask when someone got saved. We do not believe in decision theology since scriptures state that before conversion we are spiritually dead and that we did not choose but are chosen. Lutherans speak of salvation, but we do not look to ourselves, we look to Christ and the cross.

If you were to ask your husband's family about baptism or justification, you would get an earful

So do you use the term "conversion" instead of saved?
I am not very familiar with the term "decision theology". It is my understanding that God chose us - we were predestinated before the beginning of the world to be saved. But, I think there is a point in time when we are saved. Before I was saved I was Jewish. I did not believe that Jesus was God. When I prayed to Jesus and accepted Him as God, I was saved. In one sense I chose to do that, but in another sense, it was what God had planned out for me and it was His grace that drew me to Him. Had I not called upon the name of the Lord, I would not be saved. However, that faith that led me to do so was a gift of God and was not from myself.
Is that how ya'll see things or is it different?

At our baptisms, God covers us in the righteousness of Christ, washes away our sins and gives us forgiveness and the gift of the Holy Spirit. The connection to the cross is that Jesus forgave our sins at the cross and in our baptism all the benefits are applied to us.

What age do you baptise people?

 

[LilLamb219]

Had I not called upon the name of the Lord, I would not be saved.

You wouldn't??? God couldn't save you without you DOING something like calling on Him or accepting Him first?

Lutherans disagree. We see salvation as being 100% God's doing and nothing from ourselves as scripture states. I honestly believe that the Holy Spirit had already given you faith to believe before you "accepted" Him or "called" upon Him. You were saved before YOU actually had to do something because it's God who works salvation within you and doesn't wait for permission from a sinful human being. It's somewhat of the things you said in the above posting, but because you say that you wouldn't be saved without your having doing something first, it makes it your work. Do you see?

What age do you baptise people?

Baptism is God's work. Jesus told the disciples to baptise all nations and since babies are a part of our nations, we have them baptized. A person at any age could be baptized.

 

[LilLamb219]

I forgot to answer your question...Lutherans use the term justification or justify mostly but some do use the term conversion every now and again.

 

[LutherNut]

I am not very familiar with the term "decision theology". It is my understanding that God chose us - we were predestinated before the beginning of the world to be saved. But, I think there is a point in time when we are saved.

There are a couple points that we can point to. When Christ died on the cross, by which He saved the world. Also at our baptism when we were united with His death on the cross and His resurrection on the Third Day (Romans 6:3-7)

Before I was saved I was Jewish. I did not believe that Jesus was God. When I prayed to Jesus and accepted Him as God, I was saved. In one sense I chose to do that, but in another sense, it was what God had planned out for me and it was His grace that drew me to Him.

We cannot "accept" Christ as God. Lutherans believe that we cannot by our own strength or reason believe in Jesus or come to Him, but the Holy Spirit calls us and enables us to believe in Him. It is totally God's doing. Your praying and believing in Him was your reaction to the work of the Holy Spirit. Conversion, therefore, is not when we accepted or decided to believe in Christ in order to be saved, but rather when we came to the realization that Christ died for us and that we are already saved. Our prayer and praise is our reaction to that Good News of the Gospel that the Holy Spirit called us by.

Had I not called upon the name of the Lord, I would not be saved. However, that faith that led me to do so was a gift of God and was not from myself.
Is that how ya'll see things or is it different?

Your salvation was not at all dependent or caused by your "calling upon the Name of the Lord." We call upon His Name because we are saved, not to be saved.

Try the sentence this way: "Had I not been saved, I would not have called on the Name of the Lord."

What age do you baptise people?

All people are conceived and born sinful, in a state of rebellion against God, and are therefore deserving of His wrath and punishment (Psalm 51:5). Baptism saves us by uniting us with the death and resurrection of Christ, thereby forgiving that state of sinfulness. Therefore, infants, becasue they need the benefit of baptism, are baptized as soon after birth as is possible.

 

[KEPLER]

To put it in the words of Scripture, CMof3, "It is His kindness that brings us to repentence." God "draws" us to Christ as water is drawn from a well.

 

[christianmomof3]

We cannot "accept" Christ as God. Lutherans believe that we cannot by our own strength or reason believe in Jesus or come to Him, but the Holy Spirit calls us and enables us to believe in Him. It is totally God's doing. Your praying and believing in Him was your reaction to the work of the Holy Spirit. Conversion, therefore, is not when we accepted or decided to believe in Christ in order to be saved, but rather when we came to the realization that Christ died for us and that we are already saved. Our prayer and praise is our reaction to that Good News of the Gospel that the Holy Spirit called us by.

So then, do you believe that everyone is already saved?

All people are conceived and born sinful, in a state of rebellion against God, and are therefore deserving of His wrath and punishment (Psalm 51:5). Baptism saves us by uniting us with the death and resurrection of Christ, thereby forgiving that state of sinfulness. Therefore, infants, becasue they need the benefit of baptism, are baptized as soon after birth as is possible.

Or is it only those who are Baptised who are saved?

What do Lutherans see salvation as meaning? Saved from what or to what? What saves people? Who is saved and how do they get that way?

I hope that does not sound obnoxious, I am just trying to understand what ya'll believe.

Thank you

 

[LilLamb219]

So then, do you believe that everyone is already saved?

No, we are born sinful and in need of a Savior; each one of us. God gives us the gift of faith in order to trust in the Gospel message (the good news that because of Christ's death on the cross, we are forgiven). Without faith, we are dead in our sins.

Or is it only those who are Baptised who are saved?

Scriptures tell us that baptism saves, but that it's not the lack of baptism that damns us. Faith comes from baptism but it also comes by hearing God's Word. Those who hear about the good news, surely would want baptism!

What do Lutherans see salvation as meaning? Saved from what or to what? What saves people? Who is saved and how do they get that way?

Salvation means that God saves us from what we deserve, eternal punishment. How does God do this? First off, He gave the promise of a Savior in the book of Genesis and those who had faith (a trust) in that promise were saved. Jesus came and died on the cross in our substitute, for he was the perfect lamb. Baptism gives us the benefits earned at the cross, such as the washing away of our sins and clothing ourselves in Christ's righteousness.

God is the one who saves. Only HE can save us and He is the one who does that work; 100%. We cannot contributure to our salvation one iota. God uses means to bring us to salvation. Some of those means are of course, His Son and the cross, but also He uses man to spread the Gospel, He uses His Word to bring people to faith, He uses the Holy Spirit, He uses water combined with His Word in baptism, He uses His Word with bread and wine to keep us in faith, all these things God uses to show us His love for us and His salvation.

There is not one person who can contribute to his salvation by deciding, choosing, accepting, surrendering, etc..., for that would make salvation a work and we know that scriptures say that it's not by works. Faith is not a work because scriptures tell us it's a gift from God.

Those who have faith will be saved. But man can and does reject and those who do deserve eternal punishment. Those who reject, reject Christ and the cross and deny the forgiveness of sins. We are all justified by the cross, but those who reject also reject that justification and throw it back at God; not wanting it.

We don't know exactly who has faith and who is just a hypocrite. We can't see into people's hearts so we listen to their confession of what they believe or don't believe.

Hope that helps.

 

[christianmomof3]

Thank you all for your thoughtful answers.
I certainly agree that Christ saves us and we do not save ourselves.

I have another question about being born again. I got this response:

Being born again comes from the John 3 verse So, Jesus says to Nicodemus: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God…unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (John 3:3; 5).

I've read that it was common for Jews to baptize Gentiles that converted and they were then called "newborns". Jesus' language in the John 3 verse is speaking about baptism where we are born again by Word and water.

What about being born of Spirit here?
What does that mean to Lutherans?
What does being born-again mean to ya'll? Do ya'll use that term?
(my goodness, I guess I sound pretty southern here)
Thank you

 

[Melethiel]

What does being born-again mean to ya'll? Do ya'll use that term?

Many Lutherans will get a blank look. That's pretty much an Baptist term.

 

[Jim47]

christianmomof3

Thank you all for your thoughtful answers.
I certainly agree that Christ saves us and we do not save ourselves.

I have another question about being born again. I got this response:

What about being born of Spirit here?
What does that mean to Lutherans?
What does being born-again mean to ya'll? Do ya'll use that term?
(my goodness, I guess I sound pretty southern here)
Thank you

We love having visitors Karen.

Lutherans believe in being born again, but a little differently than some denom's do. The bible teaches us (as has already been posted) that unless we are born again we can not be saved. This work is done solely by The Holy Spirit. Unless we are born of water and The Word we can not be saved. It is by grace through faith in God's Word that we are called the children of God.

I also have a small problem with the term saved. I much prefer to be called a believer, a Christian or a child of God. Salvation is not something we merit or deserve, it is only because of God's grace.

Lutherans for the most part are very humble about themselves and their righteousness, as we know that we are righteous only in Christ, and we ourselves can only boast of a Savior slain for our sins. We are very proud however of following the true doctrines taught in scripture. What we forget sometimes because we are so zealous for God's Word is to temper our communication with love. Alas, we are sinners and in need of God's grace as are all.

Come on back, cause we love southerners too.

 

[christianmomof3]

We love having visitors Karen.

Thank You, but my name is Dana

Lutherans believe in being born again, but a little differently than some denom's do. The bible teaches us (as has already been posted) that unless we are born again we can not be saved. This work is done solely by The Holy Spirit. Unless we are born of water and The Word

I have never seen this verse as water and the Word, but always as water and the Spirit. Why do you use the word "Word" instead of spirit? Is that in a particular translation?

we can not be saved. It is by grace through faith in God's Word that we are called the children of God.

I also have a small problem with the term saved. I much prefer to be called a believer, a Christian or a child of God. Salvation is not something we merit or deserve, it is only because of God's grace.

Yes, but by His grace we have been saved and we are saved, so what is wrong with that term?

Lutherans for the most part are very humble about themselves and their righteousness, as we know that we are righteous only in Christ, and we ourselves can only boast of a Savior slain for our sins. We are very proud however of following the true doctrines taught in scripture.

What would these true doctrines that you are proud of following be?

Thank you all for your answers!
In Christ, Dana

 

[KEPLER]

I have never seen this verse as water and the Word, but always as water and the Spirit. Why do you use the word "Word" instead of spirit? Is that in a particular translation?

I believe he was referring to Ephesians 5:25-6, where Paul says that Christ has cleansed us (his church) by washing (i.e., baptizing) us through Water with the Word.

K

 

[SPALATIN]

Thank You, but my name is Dana
I have never seen this verse as water and the Word, but always as water and the Spirit. Why do you use the word "Word" instead of spirit? Is that in a particular translation?

Yes, but by His grace we have been saved and we are saved, so what is wrong with that term?


What would these true doctrines that you are proud of following be?

Thank you all for your answers!
In Christ, Dana

Dana,

1 Peter 3 is a very good place to see the illustration of water washing us and baptizing us. Just like Noah and his family who were baptized by the flood in the ark we too are to be baptized. But the word Baptize is a passive word in the greek and is therefore not something we do but something that God does to us.

We could fill post upon post to explain how Lutherans see justification, sanctification and salvation all rolled into Christ's work on the cross.

Scott

 

[LilLamb219]

Yes, but by His grace we have been saved and we are saved, so what is wrong with that term?

That's different from how evangelicals of today use the word "saved" though since most refer to "getting saved" or when they "got saved" as in something that they participated in for salvation. Such as asking Jesus into their hearts, accepting Jesus as their Lord and Savior, etc... These concepts are not what Lutherans believe. If you ask a Lutheran if he is saved by the work of the cross, surely he would agree with you. But if you ask him when he got saved, he'd give you a strange look since that is not what we talk about. We talk about Christ and Him crucified.

 

[BigNorsk]

One thing I think you run into that's different between how many of the groups that talk a lot about being born again and Lutherans gets into the conception of time.

Born again talkers tend to make it all sound as though one's salvation happened right there and only there and that's it.

Lutherans see how our names were written in the Book of Life before the creation of the Universe, we see how Christ paid for our since some 2000 years ago on the cross, and so on and time as man sees it kind of becomes less important.

Born again talkers really stress time a lot. You see it when people are almost treated as nonbelievers if they can't quote the exact time on the clock when they were "born again".

It carries over into things like baptism. The born again talkers are real concerned everything was perfectly done in perfect order in time. So they worry a lot about a person being baptised right after some religious experience. And they really see that baptism as kind of an event that occurs one time. They often end up requiring that big religious experience type of conversion too. People who simply believe and can't remember not believing are treated with a kind of suspicion too.

Lutherans aren't so worried about timing, they see your baptism as something you can effectively return to anytime. It's really more something outside of time. Lutherans aren't generally plagued with questions about did their baptism occur at just the right moment.

Think of all those people you meet who are so worried if their baptism was valid because they maybe didn't really believe good enough right at that moment. Or it wasn't physically done just exactly a certain way and so on. I don't really get their concerns, the thing that's really missing from the Bible is invalid baptisms.

It gets back to whether things depend on God or man. If God, he's really outside of time, if man, well, you're much more "locked in." It is much more comforting to understand how our salvation is not our work but the work of our Lord and Savior.

If you ask a Lutheran when and where he was saved, you are probably as likely to get told on a hill outside Jerusalem 2000 years ago, as when he really became aware of Jesus as his Savior.

He's born again, but he isn't too likely to decsribe it as: I was saved, when I decided to follow Jesus, and I chose him, and then I decided to get baptised to show the world the decision I made. That's an example of decision theology, not Lutheran theology. If the Lutheran talks about what he did, he should say something much more like when I quite fighting against the Lord instead of when I chose Jesus. One way it's Jesus work which the fellow was striving against so he is saved by Jesus. The other way, while this would be strenuously disagreed with, makes ones salvation dependant on one's own work.

I have never seen much of any disagreement on how people are saved withing Lutherans. There gets to be occassional problems within some of the Lutheran groups, pietists that end up creating a law, confessionals that end up equating belief with knowledge and so on, but the correct understanding of justification is pretty hard wired into Lutheranism so those stand out as abuses. Probably the most common problem is a pastor who isn't very good at teaching it rather than someone who actually teaches it incorrectly.

But just like other denominations you almost have to wonder what some of the people who belong have listened to all their lives, it certainly doesn't seem to have much of anything to do with the teachings presented in the church.

Marv