• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Do facts actualy point to a Creator?

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,792
✟254,941.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others

Then please provide objective evidence, that this "word" you speak of, is the truth.
 
Upvote 0

Chriliman

Everything I need to be joyful is right here
May 22, 2015
5,895
569
✟173,201.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Then please provide objective evidence, that this "word" you speak of, is the truth.

Person 1: There is objective evidence that His word is truth and it can be understood by reading the scriptures.

Person 2: My interpretation of the scripture is that they appear to contradict, therefore they can't be true.


Fish 1: There is objective evidence of the bowl of water and it can be understood by following the contour of the glass.

Fish 2: My interpretation of the contour of the glass is that it appears to contradict the idea that it's a bowl. It appears to be the exact opposite of a bowl.

I'm sure you can understand that the true nature of things are not necessarily always as they appear. We base our beliefs on our interpretations of evidence, not necessarily on the truth that the evidence is pointing to.
 
Upvote 0

Archaeopteryx

Wanderer
Jul 1, 2007
22,229
2,608
✟78,240.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Yeah, sounds like you don't have evidence...
 
Upvote 0

Eudaimonist

I believe in life before death!
Jan 1, 2003
27,482
2,738
58
American resident of Sweden
Visit site
✟126,756.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
I'm sure you can understand that the true nature of things are not necessarily always as they appear. We base our beliefs on our interpretations of evidence, not necessarily on the truth that the evidence is pointing to.

Are you saying that Christianity is not necessarily true, even though it may appear that way to you?


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
Upvote 0

The Cadet

SO COOL
Apr 29, 2010
6,290
4,743
Munich
✟53,117.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
It's not every day I feel the need to appeal to Billy Madison...
 
Upvote 0

Chriliman

Everything I need to be joyful is right here
May 22, 2015
5,895
569
✟173,201.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Are you saying that Christianity is not necessarily true, even though it may appear that way to you?


eudaimonia,

Mark

No, I'm saying God's word is true, but it doesn't appear that way to you.

You're saying God's word is not true because it appears to be contradictory to you.
 
Upvote 0

Eudaimonist

I believe in life before death!
Jan 1, 2003
27,482
2,738
58
American resident of Sweden
Visit site
✟126,756.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
No, I'm saying God's word is true, but it doesn't appear that way to you.

You're saying God's word is not true because it appears to be contradictory to you.

I love that asymmetry. It's only I that can be mistaken.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
Upvote 0

Freodin

Devout believer in a theologically different God
Mar 9, 2002
15,713
3,762
Germany, Bavaria, Middle Franconia
Visit site
✟260,281.00
Faith
Atheist
No, I'm saying God's word is true, but it doesn't appear that way to you.

You're saying God's word is not true because it appears to be contradictory to you.
Yes, so you are saying. Why should we accept what you are saying over what others are saying?

You claim that "objective evidence" shows you right... but you never get to present any. Why is that? (I think it is because you don't have any to present, and you know that. But I could be wrong. How about you do something to show me wrong?)
 
Reactions: bhsmte
Upvote 0

Freodin

Devout believer in a theologically different God
Mar 9, 2002
15,713
3,762
Germany, Bavaria, Middle Franconia
Visit site
✟260,281.00
Faith
Atheist
Upvote 0

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,792
✟254,941.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others

This is your idea of evidence?
 
Upvote 0

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,792
✟254,941.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Is it possible to accept a statement as true without first having evidence in the form of a logical explanation?

You use the term "logical" quite it bit, because it may make you think, you are actually being logical.

Established facts come first and then explanations that take those facts into consideration.

Frankly, the more you post, the more trouble you get yourself into, in regards to supporting your position.
 
Upvote 0

Davian

fallible
May 30, 2011
14,100
1,181
West Coast of Canada
✟46,103.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Ignostic
Marital Status
Married
Is it possible to accept a statement as true without first having evidence in the form of a logical explanation?
Yes. The term most commonly used is "gullibility". Are you saying that one must be gullible to accept what you claim?
 
Upvote 0

Chriliman

Everything I need to be joyful is right here
May 22, 2015
5,895
569
✟173,201.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Yes. The term most commonly used is "gullibility". Are you saying that one must be gullible to accept what you claim?

Great I said something that you find logical!

I believe it's impossible to accept a statement without first having evidence in the form of a logical explanation.

I'd even say that gullible people can only accept statements if there is evidence in the form of logic, it's just that the logic their accepting is based in falsehood and they don't realize it at the time.
 
Upvote 0

Davian

fallible
May 30, 2011
14,100
1,181
West Coast of Canada
✟46,103.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Ignostic
Marital Status
Married
In the absence of these "logical explanations" that you allude to, it seems that you are describing yourself as gullible.
 
Upvote 0

Chriliman

Everything I need to be joyful is right here
May 22, 2015
5,895
569
✟173,201.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
In the absence of these "logical explanations" that you allude to, it seems that you are describing yourself as gullible.

If I were to accept your statement as true, then yes you could say I'm gullible.
 
Upvote 0

Davian

fallible
May 30, 2011
14,100
1,181
West Coast of Canada
✟46,103.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Ignostic
Marital Status
Married
If I were to accept your statement as true, then yes you could say I'm gullible.
You did tacitly accept my statement as true when you failed to dispute the absence of those "logical explanations"
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ToddNotTodd

Iconoclast
Feb 17, 2004
7,787
3,884
✟274,996.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Person 1: There is objective evidence that His word is truth and it can be understood by reading the scriptures.

Person 2: My interpretation of the scripture is that they appear to contradict, therefore they can't be true.

Personally, I'm not an atheist because I believe the Bible contradicts itself. I'm an atheist because I see no reason to believe that the Bible includes a god that actually exists.



As there can not be "the exact opposite of a bowl", as the phrase is nonsensical, it's clear that Fish 2 has no idea what logic is. BUT, Fish 2 can be taught what logic is, and can be shown what evidence is, and therefore LEARN that he's actually in a bowl.

So... what's your evidence...
 
Upvote 0