Do Dispensationals Accept Original Sin?

[notreligus]

I would appreciate answers from Dispensational posters in this forum as to how they view the doctrine of Original Sin? Thank you.

 

[Jeff Carr]

I would appreciate answers from Dispensational posters in this forum as to how they view the doctrine of Original Sin? Thank you.

I am a Classic Dispensationalist.
I believe that Romans 5 teaches that we inherit a sinful nature from Adam. However, we are not guilty of Adams sin, only our own.
So I guess I am not an adherent to Original Sin.

 

[notreligus]

I am a Classic Dispensationalist.
I believe that Romans 5 teaches that we inherit a sinful nature from Adam. However, we are not guilty of Adams sin, only our own.
So I guess I am not an adherent to Original Sin.

That's a pretty good spin - better than most I hear or read - but it doesn't work. If you believe Romans Chapter 5, and you say that you do, then you must accept that the first Adam brought the curse of sin upon mankind and the Second Adam, Jesus Christ, provided the relief from the sin curse upon mankind.

Adam's sin brought about a curse upon mankind and this world. Even though Christ has provided mankind's reconciliation to God Almighty by faith in His finished work on the cross, this world is obviously still under that curse. That's pretty obvious and what happened in Parkland, Florida yesterday is proof of that. We deal with disease and disaster in the world. These are evidences of the curse that still lingers due to Adam's sin.

God did not just kick Adam and Even out of the garden and leave them without hope. We see in Genesis 3:21 that God provided them with a sin covering, and this sin covering pointed to what Jesus Christ would do in the future for mankind. Jesus has reconciled both Jew and Gentile to God Almighty. There are no separate plans of reconciliation.

Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

Dispensationals claim that Romans is for Gentiles only. That's not right. That was Paul's admonishment to Jews and Gentiles in Romans.

Mat 26:27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, "Drink of it, all of you,
Mat 26:28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Mat 26:29 I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."

The New Covenant is in effect now. Christ's references to "when I drink it new with you" refers to His future final earthly Kingdom on the New Earth where all in the Body of Christ - all Believers - will dwell with Him.

The effects of Christ's shed blood, the blood that was the only payment that God Almighty would accept:

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Eph 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility

Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Heb 9:11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation)
Heb 9:12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

Christ's shed blood was deposited in the Heavenly Holy of Holies as a permanent sin covering.

Heb 10:1 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near.
Heb 10:2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins?
Heb 10:3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year.

Heb 10:9 then he added, "Behold, I have come to do your will." He does away with the first in order to establish the second.
Heb 10:10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
Heb 10:12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God

Heb_4:14 Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.

Heb 7:17 For it is witnessed of him, "You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek."
Heb 7:18 For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness
Heb 7:19 (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.
Heb 7:20 And it was not without an oath. For those who formerly became priests were made such without an oath,
Heb 7:21 but this one was made a priest with an oath by the one who said to him: "The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind, 'You are a priest forever.'"
Heb 7:22 This makes Jesus the guarantor of a better covenant.
Heb 7:23 The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office,
Heb 7:24 but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues forever.
Heb 7:25 Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.
Heb 7:26 For it was indeed fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, unstained, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens.
Heb 7:27 He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself.
Heb 7:28 For the law appoints men in their weakness as high priests, but the word of the oath, which came later than the law, appoints a Son who has been made perfect forever.

Heb 8:1 Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,
Heb 8:2 a minister in the holy places, in the true tent that the Lord set up, not man.
Heb 8:3 For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices; thus it is necessary for this priest also to have something to offer.
Heb 8:4 Now if he were on earth, he would not be a priest at all, since there are priests who offer gifts according to the law.
Heb 8:5 They serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things. For when Moses was about to erect the tent, he was instructed by God, saying, "See that you make everything according to the pattern that was shown you on the mountain."
Heb 8:6 But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.
Heb 8:8 For he finds fault with them when he says: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
Heb 8:9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more."
Heb 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Rom 8:34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

Jesus is the Believer's attorney who stands before God Almighty and declares the Believer righteous. I would rather have Him representing me rather than try to represent myself with my "good works" which are not acceptable anyway. Only a fool would represent himself (or herself). Christ's righteousness is imputed to the Believer.


Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility
Eph 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,
Eph 2:16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

One New Man was created in Christ. God does not have two wives. He is not a polygamist.

I know that Dispensationals claim that Hebrews is a "Jewish book" and there is no New Covenant now. This is why Dispensationalism is a doctrine which should be avoided. I held to it for over 40 years until I had to admit that this doctrine leads to belief in a manufactured idea of who Christ is and what He accomplished on the cross. The eternal separation of Jews and Gentiles is a doctrine that Satan loves. He wants us to be divided. He wants the "Gentile" to feel no urgency to reach the Jew who must be saved like everyone must be saved.

John Hagee, whose teaching is a product of the Dispensational view, claimed in his original edition of "In Defense Of Israel" that Christ did not come as the Messiah so we should not hold the Jews accountable for rejecting the Messiah who had not yet come. I heard Hagee preach that "all Jews who follow the Torah" are as saved as any Gentile who believes in Christ. That's a lie that Dispensationals have believed. Christ told the Jews that they were condemned because they did not believe what was written about Him in the Torah:

Joh 5:43 I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him.
Joh 5:44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?
Joh 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope.
Joh 5:46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me.
Joh 5:47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?"

The entire Bible is about God's plan of redemption. Jesus Christ is the central figure of all of Scripture.

 

[Ron Gurley]

The RCC dogma and doctrine of "original sin" is FALSE.

A&E as examples of all homo sapiens committed the FIRST DISOBEDIENCE of God with their gift of "free will", an exercise of their "sin nature". Then God disciplined those He loved.

 

[sawdust]

I believe God deals with humanity in dispensations and I believe we inherit a sin nature due to Adam's original sin. It's another law at work in the flesh and our flesh is inherited from Adam. It's in the genes.

22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?

 

[ac28]

The term "original sin" does not appear in the Bible and it is, therefore, a non-entity. When the Bible is silent, we must be silent also.

Sin and death go hand in hand. The wages of sin is death - Rom 6:23

Rom 5:12
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

Anyone that uses the term, "dispensationalist", alone, without saying what type, is very wrong in assuming that all dispensationalists think alike. Besides individual differences, the various types are as night and day. For example, the differences between an Acts 2 dispensationalist and an Acts 28 dispensationalist are as great as those between a Catholic and a Baptist. I know of no similarities, at all, between Ac 2 and Ac 28 dispensationalists. Acts 2 is mostly wrong and Acts 28 is mostly right. But even Acts 2 people have a lot more NT knowledge than any non-dispensationalist.

Acts 9 and 13, both called mid-Acts, are in the middle, in more ways than one. Mid-Acts people have finagled scripture to the point where they foolishly think they can claim both sets of Paul's epistles (7 written during Acts and 7 written after Acts) as truth for the church today. In other words, they think they can have their cake and eat it, too. Their theme is, "From Romans through Philemon." If that were true, they would get both the Rapture and the Appearing, and, both Heaven and the New Jerusalem (which is not Heaven, by any stretch of the imagination). Of course, that is impossible, so they have to pick and choose, through questionable means.

The worst thing about dispensationalism is the length of the word. A couple of years ago, on this forum, we abbreviated the 3 types as A2D, A9D, and A28D, which was a very good idea.

 

[SeventyOne]

I would appreciate answers from Dispensational posters in this forum as to how they view the doctrine of Original Sin? Thank you.

Since original sin isn't a pillar of dispensational teaching, you will find dispensationalists who adhere to it and those who don't, just as one would find non-dispensationalists spread across the original sin spectrum as well.

 

[Danoh]

I would appreciate answers from Dispensational posters in this forum as to how they view the doctrine of Original Sin? Thank you.

As with any school of thought within "Christianity" you'll find that some Dispys hold to the doctrine of Orriginal Sin, and some do not.

I find that as with any other understanding, it depends on each person's study approach.

Case in point, within my study approach, I often find answers to such questions in passages one might not think to consider.

Passages like the following...

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Passages like those ever make it obvious that if just one soul had been born sinless to begin with, then Christ would not have had to die.

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

In short, Romans 5:6-9

 

[Stone-n-Steel]

If you mean by original sin, you are referring to sin that is inherited from birth then I believe there was some thing in that fruit that caused them to suddenly know the difference between good and evil. I suspect it gives power to a man to make a choice and in this case man was powerless to choose right. God then wanted to make sure that they did not also eat of the fruit that would make them immortal. After they were able to mature they could then make the choice of God or separation. At various times, God educated men in what sin is and what is expected of them to come back to Him. Today, it is only in belief in what Jesus did at the cross. I guess that makes me dispensational.

 

[oldrunner]

I believe God deals with humanity in dispensations and I believe we inherit a sin nature due to Adam's original sin. It's another law at work in the flesh and our flesh is inherited from Adam. It's in the genes.

22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?

This does it for me too. We are to consider the old nature dead, but it still influences us, and we die.

I'm new on the Forums but I consider myself probably about a 4 point Dispenter, and probably a 4 point Calvinist-at least from what I understand about both.

I don't know if there are more moderate type Dispenters here; (original sin, Pre-Wrath, Spirit of God saving in OT the same way in the OT as the NT-Paul just explaining what/how it happened at the moment of conversion, the NT shining more light on the OT along with giving us new info, Jews and Church both in the Heavenly city, but Israel inheriting the "land" as described in Ezek. 40 on, the "Church age" starting with Acts 2, but God dealing with both the Church and Israel in this age-because they are back in the land now and more so as the 70th week of Dan starts-probably more things too). Kind of a mix that I have come to believe is at least mostly right, because I tend to believe no one person has all the truth.

My major influences- beside the Bible, has been Systematic Theology, by Grudem. The Ryrie and Macarthur study Bibles. Heaven, by Randy Alcorn. The Sign, by Robert Van Kampen. The Islamic Antichrist and Mid-East Beast, by Joel Richardson.

I was saved @ 28, and was baptized (dunked) in a Southern Baptist Church, went to a KJVO Church for a short period, and now I'm Non-Dom.

Anyway, if there are more moderate Dispenters, say hey! Not sure where I'd fit in? Let me know if you know.

 

[oldrunner]

I would appreciate answers from Dispensational posters in this forum as to how they view the doctrine of Original Sin? Thank you.

NotReligus: Dude! Is that a Tele+ a humbucker? I got a black, Epi-Studio Les Paul and a Line 6 Jam Amp! Played in a "band" for the youth awhile back-Kutless, Tomlin, Casting Crowns, and in a couple praise bands at different Churches. Now I don't pick it up much, but maybe the opportunity to play again will come-when I get older? Never was too good, but God uses/works with, what He has at the time.

 

[sawdust]

This does it for me too. We are to consider the old nature dead, but it still influences us, and we die.

I'm new on the Forums but I consider myself probably about a 4 point Dispenter, and probably a 4 point Calvinist-at least from what I understand about both.

I don't know if there are more moderate type Dispenters here; (original sin, Pre-Wrath, Spirit of God saving in OT the same way in the OT as the NT-Paul just explaining what/how it happened at the moment of conversion, the NT shining more light on the OT along with giving us new info, Jews and Church both in the Heavenly city, but Israel inheriting the "land" as described in Ezek. 40 on, the "Church age" starting with Acts 2, but God dealing with both the Church and Israel in this age-because they are back in the land now and more so as the 70th week of Dan starts-probably more things too). Kind of a mix that I have come to believe is at least mostly right, because I tend to believe no one person has all the truth.

My major influences- beside the Bible, has been Systematic Theology, by Grudem. The Ryrie and Macarthur study Bibles. Heaven, by Randy Alcorn. The Sign, by Robert Van Kampen. The Islamic Antichrist and Mid-East Beast, by Joel Richardson.

I was saved @ 28, and was baptized (dunked) in a Southern Baptist Church, went to a KJVO Church for a short period, and now I'm Non-Dom.

Anyway, if there are more moderate Dispenters, say hey! Not sure where I'd fit in? Let me know if you know.

Just saying G'day and welcome.

 

[oldrunner]

Just saying G'day and welcome.

Thanks mate! Love the down under accent!

 

[notreligus]

NotReligus: Dude! Is that a Tele+ a humbucker? I got a black, Epi-Studio Les Paul and a Line 6 Jam Amp! Played in a "band" for the youth awhile back-Kutless, Tomlin, Casting Crowns, and in a couple praise bands at different Churches. Now I don't pick it up much, but maybe the opportunity to play again will come-when I get older? Never was too good, but God uses/works with, what He has at the time.

Fender Telecaster with Duncan 59 at neck and Duncan Vintage Stack at the bridge.

 

[notreligus]

The doctrine of Original Sin is not exclusively a Calvinist or Reformed Doctrine. When mankind became cursed because of Adam's sin the world also became cursed. Do death, disease, violent storms and other natural catastrophes, wars, racism, etc. still exist?

 

[oldrunner]

The doctrine of Original Sin is not exclusively a Calvinist or Reformed Doctrine. When mankind became cursed because of Adam's sin the world also became cursed. Do death, disease, violent storms and other natural catastrophes, wars, racism, etc. still exist?

Yeah, of course! I guess I'm not totally lock step with any one denominational teaching about everything... Nice guitar! Great for playing just about any type of music.

 

[sawdust]

Good point. The whole universe was handed over to the folly of sin. You know how sometimes you get those videos of unlikely friendships, like a cat and dog or bird and cat playing together? We all go "how amazing" but in God's Kingdom that's the norm. How cool is that!

Isa. 11:6
The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.

 

[oldrunner]

Good point. The whole universe was handed over to the folly of sin. You know how sometimes you get those videos of unlikely friendships, like a cat and dog or bird and cat playing together? We all go "how amazing" but in God's Kingdom that's the norm. How cool is that!

Isa. 11:6
The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.

Yeah, it will be like MASSIVE COOL!

You ever read Randy Alcorns book on Heaven? I don't agree with all his conclusions, but he does have some good ideas, and got me to thinking more about what Heaven will really be like. Great read, IMO.

 

[sawdust]

Yeah, it will be like MASSIVE COOL!

You ever read Randy Alcorns book on Heaven? I don't agree with all his conclusions, but he does have some good ideas, and got me to thinking more about what Heaven will really be like. Great read, IMO.

I haven't read the book. I use to wonder what heaven might be like but then I realised ...

Eph.3:20
Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us,

.. and I figured why should I "draw pictures" based on my limitations. I'll let the Lord work out the details.

 

[GenemZ]

Fender Telecaster with Duncan 59 at neck and Duncan Vintage Stack at the bridge.

Too bad,.... Only Gretsch's get saved.