Do Catholics venerate Abraham, Noah, or Moses?

[OpenDoor]

There has been a lot of talk about veneration.
What about these guys?

 

[ivebeenshown]

If I had to guess, and this is because of my lack of understanding, but if I had to guess they venerate them in a generic "communion of the saints" sense because they believe that those sleeping in the dust of the earth were already risen as Christ was risen.

I have never seen a statue, icon, symbol, portrait, or stained glass of either of three you have mentioned, though we do see Noah portrayed on many childish things and in Sunday schools.

I believe that since we cannot have a real picture of any of the biblical figures, the creation of such images is done in vain.

 

[Hairy Tic]

There has been a lot of talk about veneration.
What about these guys?

## Eastern Rite Catholics honour them - the Roman Martyrology of 1954 includes 32 OT Saints (as well as the Maccabean martyrs of 2 Maccabees 7, who in the pre-Vatican II Missal have a feast on August 1).

The 32 include:

• Adam & Eve (feast-day on Dec.24)
• Abel
• Abraham
• Moses
• Aaron
• Joshua
• Gideon
• Samuel
• David
• Elijah
• Elisha
• Ezra
  
• the 4 "greater" Prophets
• the 12 "lesser" prophets

I forget the others - sorry.

In addition (?), there are the three Biblical archangels Michael (in Daniel), Raphael (in the Book of Tobit), & Gabriel in Luke's gospel in the NT.
But no Enoch or Noah Elijah is one of the Patron Saints of the Carmelite Friars.

Noah is in one of the Lutheran calendars, though

Calendar of Saints (Lutheran) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IMO the Roman Rite as now revised ought to make far more of the OT Saints; they are as truly members of Christ as member of the NT Church is. They are important, because they remind us of the continuity of God's purpose; & they are a reminder also that the Church has always existed in some form, ever since God called anyone to belong to Him.

See for a list of OT Saints in the various Churches:

Category:Old Testament saints - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ivebeenshown]

Elijah is one of the Patron Saints of the Carmelite Friars.

Why isn't he given the same amount of respect as any other prophet? Elijah had not only his own ministry but also the spirit of Elijah was given to John the Baptist.

Are the saints not equal by the judgment we are allotted?

 

[Hairy Tic]

Why isn't he given the same amount of respect as any other prophet? Elijah had not only his own ministry but also the spirit of Elijah was given to John the Baptist.

Are the saints not equal by the judgment we are allotted?

## Some saints are more popular than others. Abraham & Abel both occur (like Melchizedek) in the Roman Liturgy of the Mass. Elijah is the Patron of a religious society. The rest are in the Bible, & that's more or less that. One cause of relative popularity is that some of their names are more often used for Christians than others - if there were thousands of Hoseas, as there are thousands of Adams, the name of Hosea would probably be much more familiar.

All Saints, Biblical or not, named or not, are subject to the same Lord, clearly.

 

[ivebeenshown]

## Some saints are more popular than others. Abraham & Abel both occur (like Melchizedek) in the Roman Liturgy of the Mass. Elijah is the Patron of a religious society. The rest are in the Bible, & that's more or less that. One cause of relative popularity is that some of their names are more often used for Christians than others - if there were thousands of Hoseas, as there are thousands of Adams, the name of Hosea would probably be much more familiar.

All Saints, Biblical or not, named or not, are subject to the same Lord, clearly.

Naming someone is a bit different than having saint calendars and icons and images and statues and necklaces and figurines and talking to someone whose flesh and bones are not alive (like Christ's.)

 

[Eucharisted]

We venerate all God's saints, which includes the patriarches and matriarches, the prophets and Apostles, etc. We do not discriminate against God's holy work.

 

[ivebeenshown]

We venerate all God's saints, which includes the patriarches and matriarches, the prophets and Apostles, etc. We do not discriminate against God's holy work.

Then why ask any one saint in particular for a prayer? Why take the time to venerate just one saint? Are all saints not just part of the one body of Christ?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Garnishing the sepulchres of the righteous is no new concept ofcourse

 

[Hairy Tic]

Naming someone is a bit different than having saint calendars and icons and images and statues and necklaces and figurines and talking to someone whose flesh and bones are not alive (like Christ's.)

## I don't see what the point you're making is - sorry

 

[Hairy Tic]

Then why ask any one saint in particular for a prayer? Why take the time to venerate just one saint? Are all saints not just part of the one body of Christ?

## Love is individual as well as communal. People don't have friends-in-general - they are friends w/ particular individuals. People do not marry people-in-general, but particular individuals.

Devotion to particular Saints is as legitimate as recognition of the Saints as a community in general; devotion to the Saints reigning with Christ in His glory, is a form of devotion to Christ Who is separate neither from them nor us, but unites both them & us w/ Himself and the Father in & through His Spirit. Devotion is a form of love, of friendship, of union w/ Christ; the Saints do not exist in themselves, but to be His; as do we. Some people are attracted to certain Saints, more than to others; is there anything wrong in that ?

None of this threatens the unity of the Body of Christ. It need not, & should not, & is intended to build up the unity of the Body, on earth as well as in Heaven.

 

[Frogster]

Flesh.

 

[Fireinfolding]

1Cr 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

He didnt promote glorying in men though

 

[Hairy Tic]

Garnishing the sepulchres of the righteous is no new concept ofcourse

## I don't think those Churches that honour Saints - which is the greater part of the Christian world, for most of the history of the Church - are doing anyything but take the command to "love one another" as it stands. The friends & children of God in Heaven with Him can hardly be alien to the Church of God on earth. If they are His, they are Christ's members - so they are members of Christ w/ us, & we w/ them.

If the Church is doing wrong in honouring God's Saints, why do we not know that ?

 

[Frogster]

## I don't think those Churches that honour Saints - which is the greater part of the Christian world, for most of the history of the Church - are doing anyything but take the command to "love one another" as it stands. The friends & children of God in Heaven with Him can hardly be alien to the Church of God on earth. If they are His, they are Christ's members - so they are members of Christ w/ us, & we w/ them.

If the Church is doing wrong in honouring God's Saints, why do we not know that ?

It is a play on words, honor became venerate, which has become worship.

 

[Fireinfolding]

## I don't think those Churches that honour Saints - which is the greater part of the Christian world, for most of the history of the Church - are doing anyything but take the command to "love one another" as it stands. The friends & children of God in Heaven with Him can hardly be alien to the Church of God on earth. If they are His, they are Christ's members - so they are members of Christ w/ us, & we w/ them.

If the Church is doing wrong in honouring God's Saints, why do we not know that ?

Garnishing their tombs was a way of honouring them is all. Jesus too acknowledges their building tombs for the prophets and garnishing the graves of the righteous. He acknowleges them saying, "Oh but if we had lived in the days of the fathers we would have never been partakers with them". Though strangely he says they were a witness against themselves that way.

Honouring someone with lip service and garnishing things is not a new pratice, hypocrites do it too is all.

 

[Rhamiel]

i know eastern orthodox and coptic orthodox honor the saints of the old testament

i have seen icons of elijah

i have seen some stained glass depictions of OT patriarchs and a few paintings on the walls of churches in the Roman Catholic Church but not many

as stated the eastern rites of the catholic church have devotions to these saints in similar ways to the EO

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

It is a play on words, honor became venerate, which has become worship.

You don't know that- you evaluate, judge and conclude that based upon your biases.

The reason Mary is honored above the other Saints is straightforward. She is the one and only, at this point, who has literally brought forth the Incarnate Word from her own body.

The Catholic and Orthodox view on honoring Saints is that we do so not for their sake, but for our own. We "follow (them) as (they) followed Christ." We are to do figuratively what she did literally- bear forth Christ from our own person by faith and trust in Him.

 

[Dark_Lite]

It is a play on words, honor became venerate, which has become worship.

Repeating something (that happens to be wrong) over and over doesn't make it true.

 

[Frogster]

You don't know that- you evaluate, judge and conclude that based upon your biases.

The reason Mary is honored above the other Saints is straightforward. She is the one and only, at this point, who has literally brought forth the Incarnate Word from her own body.

The Catholic and Orthodox view on honoring Saints is that we do so not for their sake, but for our own. We "follow (them) as (they) followed Christ." We are to do figuratively what she did literally- bear forth Christ from our own person by faith and trust in Him.

Really? Read Acts 10, the first "pope" did not want to be venerated.


Acts 10:25 As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence.

Peter said...

26:But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I too am a man."

Lets just worship God alone, shall we please.