Do All Baptists Believe In Once Save Always Saved

James Is Back · Aug 30, 2014

I always thought that this was a Calvinist belief but a few days ago I found out that it's also a Baptist belief.

The question is do all Baptist adhere to OSAS?

actionsub · Aug 31, 2014

While it is the majority view among the Baptist family, there are at least two Baptist denominations that do not adhere to OSAS as doctrine: the General Baptists (largely in the lower Midwestern US) and the Free Will Baptists.

James Is Back · Aug 31, 2014

Can one be Baptist but not adhere to OSAS?

actionsub · Aug 31, 2014

Reborn Yet Again said:
Can one be Baptist but not adhere to OSAS?

Unless you're a member of a General or Freewill Baptist church (which might be hard to find in Oklahoma), it's pretty difficult since OSAS is almost a defining doctrine for the rest of the Baptist family, especially the Southern Baptists.

miamited · Aug 31, 2014

Hi RYA,

As a born again believer I do believe in OSAS, but my difficulty in the way it is presented today by many is that I am not saved yet. I have been born again of the Spirit of the living and loving God that created this realm, but I won't be saved until the day of God's judgment. I am, therefore destined to be saved because I have believed in God's one and only Son, but I am not saved yet.

Once God has pronounced His judgment on the great day of His judgment my hope and expectation is that I will be saved from the second death and will then be saved. That salvation will be eternal and everlasting. So, today I am living just as the Scriptures ask of me. Sojourning upon this earth. Persevering to the end of this life and living with the confident expectation that I will be saved from the wrath of the one who created me.

The Scriptures declare that if we believe on the Lord Jesus, we will be saved.
Jesus said that only those who believe and are baptized will be saved.
Paul said believe on the Lord Jesus and you and all your family will be saved

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

FreeinChrist · Aug 31, 2014

I see it as we were saved when we believe, are saved and in His kingdom, and salvation will be complete at the Second coming of Christ.
Colossians is a great book to read.

note (copied from Blueletterbible.com):
[Col 1:9-17 KJV] 9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard [it], do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Noted this:
-which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light

-Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:

There are other verses saying we are children of God, adopted of God, and are spiritually circumcised and complete in Him (Col. 2).

In Phillippians we read:
Phl 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

So we are spiritually saved, and our sanctification is progressive, and our salvation fully realized at the Second Coming (day of Jesus Christ).

I am also OSAS because of Who is the one who does the saving. He sees into our heart, and knows all and what will be. Our salvation is dependent on God's will, not our whim.

twin1954 · Aug 31, 2014

Calvinists do not believe in OSAS we believe in perseverance of the saints. OSAS is a heresy. Far too many think that because they once, as a child, made a profession of faith and were baptized they are now forever saved no matter what they do. Therefore they live profligate lives and have no interest in the things of God. If you confront them with their sin they will tell you that they are saved and honestly think that they are.

Now there is a difference in eternal security, which is held to by most Baptists, and OSAS. Eternal security is the belief that all those who truly confess
Christ are eternally secure and it will show in their lives.

Perseverance of the saints is altogether different from both. Perseverance of the saints is the belief that all the elect of God will persevere unto the end. We recognize that sin and numerous falls and failures will occur but the Lord will preserve us and cause His people to persevere in the misdt of our sin natures. We never completely fall away because we are kept in faith by Christ our Savior.

It isn't once saved always saved, saved no matter how we live, nor is it eternal security, though it is very close to the truth, but perseverance of the saints which is that all true believers persevere in the tenor of their lives to the end.

James Is Back · Aug 31, 2014

twin1954 said:
Calvinists do not believe in OSAS we believe in perseverance of the saints. OSAS is a heresy. Far too many think that because they once, as a child, made a profession of faith and were baptized they are now forever saved no matter what they do. Therefore they live profligate lives and have no interest in the things of God. If you confront them with their sin they will tell you that they are saved and honestly think that they are.

Now there is a difference in eternal security, which is held to by most Baptists, and OSAS. Eternal security is the belief that all those who truly confess
Christ are eternally secure and it will show in their lives.

Perseverance of the saints is altogether different from both. Perseverance of the saints is the belief that all the elect of God will persevere unto the end. We recognize that sin and numerous falls and failures will occur but the Lord will preserve us and cause His people to persevere in the misdt of our sin natures. We never completely fall away because we are kept in faith by Christ our Savior.

It isn't once saved always saved, saved no matter how we live, nor is it eternal security, though it is very close to the truth, but perseverance of the saints which is that all true believers persevere in the tenor of their lives to the end.

I read in Wikipeida that is where OSAS started from Calvinism but if the Calvinists don't believe in OSAS than I apologize for the error.

twin1954 · Aug 31, 2014

Reborn Yet Again said:
I read in Wikipeida that is where OSAS started from Calvinism but if the Calvinists don't believe in OSAS than I apologize for the error.

In a sense it did but it is an aboration (sp?)of the teaching of Calvinism. No problem at all for many do not understand the difference.

Bluelion · Aug 31, 2014

you should worry more about what you believe and what Jesus said than what other groups believe.

You would have to call God a liar to not believe in OSAS. John 6 Jesus said and it is the will of my father that I not lose one of all He gave me. Would you say we are given to Jesus upon being saved? If so God says he will never lose us. I always use the case of Peter and judas, Peter saved judas not both denied Christ but Peter was restored judas was not.

If we are not always saved by Christ then just what makes us saved then? Obey the Law the old way? wait till the end, In fact when Paul spoke of finishing the race he was speaking of receiving the completed promise of Jesus. Paul receiving his perfect body to match his reborn spirit. We receive the New spirit when surrender to God. The Body comes when we die.

If a person could lose salvation that is saying Jesus does not keep us, and also if it could be lost there would be no one in heaven.

James Is Back · Aug 31, 2014

Bluelion said:
you should worry more about what you believe and what Jesus said than what other groups believe.

You would have to call God a liar to not believe in OSAS. John 6 Jesus said and it is the will of my father that I not lose one of all He gave me. Would you say we are given to Jesus upon being saved? If so God says he will never lose us. I always use the case of Peter and judas, Peter saved judas not both denied Christ but Peter was restored judas was not.

If we are not always saved by Christ then just what makes us saved then? Obey the Law the old way? wait till the end, In fact when Paul spoke of finishing the race he was speaking of receiving the completed promise of Jesus. Paul receiving his perfect body to match his reborn spirit. We receive the New spirit when surrender to God. The Body comes when we die.

If a person could lose salvation that is saying Jesus does not keep us, and also if it could be lost there would be no one in heaven.

Well than I have a question for you. If one receives salvation,turns his back on God and either becomes an atheist or a satantic worshiper and dies in those beliefs are you telling me he still have his salvation?

nonaeroterraqueous · Aug 31, 2014

Reborn Yet Again said:
Well than I have a question for you. If one receives salvation,turns his back on God and either becomes an atheist or a satantic worshiper and dies in those beliefs are you telling me he still have his salvation?

I love these complex theological discussions. You just don't find this stuff anywhere else.

I would be inclined to look at the parable of the sower. Sometimes the message takes root and sprouts, only to die. Sometimes it never sprouts. Sometimes it grows successfully. While it may appear that the stony soil and the weedy soil succeeded, only to fail later, the fact is that the seed in that dirt was always destined to fail. The seed on the good soil never gets transplanted to the path, or the stony soil, or the brambles. All of the seed planted on the good soil will be tended and cared for until the final harvest. The good soil seeds aren't going to change their minds and turn atheist.

From the human perspective, there would seem to be no difference between the idea of a stony soil seed falling to ruin, versus the hypothetical good soil seed that changed its mind and decided to die, anyway. That's not the way the analogy works, though. The stony soil seed was never going to work out, despite early appearances, and the good soil seed never changes its mind and willingly contract a bad case of root rot.

faroukfarouk · Aug 31, 2014

Whether one calls oneself a baptist or not, Romans 8.38-39 is very relevant. Presumably baptists would want to take note of Romans 8.

OzSpen · Aug 31, 2014

actionsub said:
While it is the majority view among the Baptist family, there are at least two Baptist denominations that do not adhere to OSAS as doctrine: the General Baptists (largely in the lower Midwestern US) and the Free Will Baptists.

Of course. I'm one of them. It's difficult to know how many there are around the world.

OzSpen · Aug 31, 2014

Reborn Yet Again said:
Well than I have a question for you. If one receives salvation,turns his back on God and either becomes an atheist or a satantic worshiper and dies in those beliefs are you telling me he still have his salvation?

Why don't you read Hebrews 6:4-6.

I have a detailed exposition at: ‘Once Saved, Always Saved, or Once Saved, Lost Again‘.

This section of Scripture is referring to those who commit apostasy (repudiate the faith) and not to those who back-slide – in my understanding. There is no place for repentance for those who commit apostasy.

One of the saddest of such cases is seen in the apostasy of Charles Templeton who in the 1940s was an evangelistic colleague of Billy Graham in Youth for Christ and then departed from the faith [see ‘Charles Templeton (1915-2001)’]. His story is told in his book Farewell to God (1996. Toronto, Ontario: McClelland & Stewart).

(Courtesy Worldcat)

Sincerely,
Oz

FreeinChrist · Sep 1, 2014

twin1954 said:
Calvinists do not believe in OSAS we believe in perseverance of the saints. OSAS is a heresy. Far too many think that because they once, as a child, made a profession of faith and were baptized they are now forever saved no matter what they do. Therefore they live profligate lives and have no interest in the things of God. If you confront them with their sin they will tell you that they are saved and honestly think that they are.

Now there is a difference in eternal security, which is held to by most Baptists, and OSAS. Eternal security is the belief that all those who truly confess
Christ are eternally secure and it will show in their lives.

Perseverance of the saints is altogether different from both. Perseverance of the saints is the belief that all the elect of God will persevere unto the end. We recognize that sin and numerous falls and failures will occur but the Lord will preserve us and cause His people to persevere in the misdt of our sin natures. We never completely fall away because we are kept in faith by Christ our Savior.

It isn't once saved always saved, saved no matter how we live, nor is it eternal security, though it is very close to the truth, but perseverance of the saints which is that all true believers persevere in the tenor of their lives to the end.

According the Catholics, Calvinism is a heresy so I think it would be wise to watch how you fling that word around.

The OSAS believers of my acquaintance DO believe it matters greatly how one lives. Being OSAS myself, I absolutely believe it matters that I walk with Christ and not in sin. IF we are truly saved, we want to please God, and love others, and not live in sin. Your post is a mis-characterization if OSAS and to lump all OSAS believers as living "profligate lives and have no interest in the things of God" is wrongly insulting a group.

Avid · Sep 1, 2014

OzSpen said:
Why don't you read Hebrews 6:4-6.

Best advice of all - Read the Scriptures, know the scriptures, and follow what the LORD teaches in His holy scriptures!

Also, Hebrews 10 has a similar warning to all who come close to Christ (have received a knowledge of the truth.) It is not 100% clear if these had become what we like to label as "Christians," but they did attain a level of knowledge of God's Truth that left them without excuse. They would have made certain progress in coming to Christ, and then, turned their backs, walked under foot the good things revealed to them and done for them by God, and done all this despite the clear understanding of a benefit they already received in seeking the LORD.

Hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Hebrews 10
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

We can devise a statement that displays what we have decided is a principle of God's truth, but it must match what scripture states for it to have any usefulness.

One good sermon I heard 30 years ago stated that there are 8 things God does in saving a soul. He listed them and expounded upon each alphabetically.

1- Adoption
2- Atonement
3- Conversion
4- Forgiveness
5- Justification
6- Reconciliation
7- Redemption
8- Regeneration

I had not considered this as a truly saved person changing to follow self, sin and the devil. If we get some of what God does to bring a sinner to Him, and turn away, we may not actually have been what is categorized as SAVED, but have gone far enough with God where there is no returning. It is a fearful thing indeed to put ourselves in this position and then face the living God with our rebellion. It is a double rejection of the LORD.

The real problem comes when Churches (of any stripe) think they are to assure someone they are "SAVED" outside the full assurance and pure sense given to them by God's Holy Spirit. Churches have criteria, and if you do certain things, or say certain things, you are SAVED. Then, they need to come up with explanations like this, and doctrines to cover things they don't see handled that way in scripture.

.

Avid · Sep 1, 2014

OzSpen said:
... There is no place for repentance for those who commit apostasy...

One preacher has stated that we might do as Judas Iscariot, and come so close as to kiss the door of Heaven, and yet be cast away into Hell.

.

Avid · Sep 1, 2014

miamited said:
... So, today I am living just as the Scriptures ask of me. Sojourning upon this earth. Persevering to the end of this life and living with the confident expectation that I will be saved from the wrath of the one who created me...

This is a statement worth pursuing to its depth of value. When we follow the LORD, we do as He leads and empowers.

Received an email today from Erick Erickson, and he included this quote:

“...if we do not grasp the joy of the martyrs, we do not understand them at all.”
Matthew Lee Anderson

We hear people say they would die for Christ, but too many times, we don't see them live for Christ. They seem more preoccupied by the things of the world than the things of God. This type of person may actually be the one who would recant their professed faith in Christ before being martyred! We would see that they are NOT persevering after all.

These people attribute all the persevering to God, and don't see that their life should show forth this attribute till God takes them home. Here is where most, who label themselves as Calvinists, shrink from what scriptures state on the subject. They won't do as the Apostle Paul professed, and keep their body under, so it does not take them right back to where they started when God awakened them.

.

BobRyan · Sep 1, 2014

actionsub said:
While it is the majority view among the Baptist family, there are at least two Baptist denominations that do not adhere to OSAS as doctrine: the General Baptists (largely in the lower Midwestern US) and the Free Will Baptists.

Good to know.

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