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Can you give me the Jewish understanding of divorce, in light of what Moses taught and what Jesus taught? Thanks.
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Divorce
- Thread starter Svt4Him
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from what I know:
God Hates Divorce, (I remind myself of this everytime Brent leaves the toliet seat up
) What God hath joined together let No man put asunder. Whosoever put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery.
Personally, there are only two reasons I would ever get a divorce. 1. if my life was indanger 2. if my husband was abusing my children in any way.
I don't agree with these beliefs but you asked about the jewish prospective, so here's this site which is pretty informative on what the talmud states.
http://www.jewfaq.org/divorce.htm
shalom/Erin
God Hates Divorce, (I remind myself of this everytime Brent leaves the toliet seat up
) What God hath joined together let No man put asunder. Whosoever put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery. Personally, there are only two reasons I would ever get a divorce. 1. if my life was indanger 2. if my husband was abusing my children in any way.
I don't agree with these beliefs but you asked about the jewish prospective, so here's this site which is pretty informative on what the talmud states.
http://www.jewfaq.org/divorce.htm
shalom/Erin
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- Oct 23, 2003
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That's what I'm trying to understand. The first part is very exclusive, yet there are times like you mentioned that are also what people consider 'grounds for divorce'. I heard that what Jesus was saying isn't translated into English well, so I'm wondering if it means what it says, or if there is something I'm missing.
I'm wondering if this has anything to do with it: (from your link)
It is important to note that a civil divorce is not sufficient to dissolve a Jewish marriage. As far as Jewish law is concerned, a couple remains married until the woman receives the get. This has been a significant problem: many liberal Jews have a religiously valid marriage, yet do not obtain a religiously valid divorce. If the woman remarries after such a procedure, her second marriage is considered an adulterous one, and her children are considered mamzerim (*******s, illegitimate).
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Henaynei
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Some sad statistics:
Until recently more men than women sought divorce
Today, in the over 40 age group - more women than men seek a divorce - both christians and non-chirstians - problem is that more and more women are waiting until their mid to late 30's to have children (so as not to "interfere with their career") - used to be your kids were nearly grown by the time you were 40...... now they are in elementary school....
I work in the public school system in an elementary school - you never say "is you mommy/daddy home?" - it is best to just say "is there anyone home or is every one at work?" I would hazard a gues that of our 850 students, less than 30% have their original married biological family still intact and "home." MOST students, by a large margin, are in unstable split family situations. I can't tell you the number of times I here "no, that was my mommy/daddy last month/week, now it is ______" or "my daddy won't let you call my mommy." Way to frequently I have students from kindergatren and up say that there was no one home/or up in the morning to make them some breakfast..... and no one at home in the evening for hours - this is not inner city or in an improverished area, not at all!!!
Until recently more men than women sought divorce
Today, in the over 40 age group - more women than men seek a divorce - both christians and non-chirstians - problem is that more and more women are waiting until their mid to late 30's to have children (so as not to "interfere with their career") - used to be your kids were nearly grown by the time you were 40...... now they are in elementary school....
I work in the public school system in an elementary school - you never say "is you mommy/daddy home?" - it is best to just say "is there anyone home or is every one at work?" I would hazard a gues that of our 850 students, less than 30% have their original married biological family still intact and "home." MOST students, by a large margin, are in unstable split family situations. I can't tell you the number of times I here "no, that was my mommy/daddy last month/week, now it is ______" or "my daddy won't let you call my mommy." Way to frequently I have students from kindergatren and up say that there was no one home/or up in the morning to make them some breakfast..... and no one at home in the evening for hours - this is not inner city or in an improverished area, not at all!!!
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Plan 9
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brentsbaby612 said:from what I know:
God Hates Divorce, (I remind myself of this everytime Brent leaves the toliet seat up
Personally, there are only two reasons I would ever get a divorce. 1. if my life was indanger 2. if my husband was abusing my children in any way.
I don't agree with these beliefs but you asked about the jewish prospective, so here's this site which is pretty informative on what the talmud states.
http://www.jewfaq.org/divorce.htm
shalom/Erin
Just my opinion, but I have some personal experience to back this up:
Your life and you children's lives are in danger when you husband commits serial adultery; we ahve returned to a world in which p-cillin is no longer king.
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Exactly, Me and my husband covered this before we were married. It's not specifically in the bible but it is in my marriage contract. I was also to submit and allow him to be head of the family, yet he was to always consider me in everything. Now this is in the bible!
Also, I had a friend who's husband was abusing her. She pray for G-d's will to be done, and refused to leave him because she did not believe in divorce. Two weeks later he ran off with a woman from work. She praised G-d and said He had heard her crys. Her husband broke the marriage contract, not her. She believed HaShem had sent that women to lore away her husband.
???????
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Henaynei
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This was stated in the context of physical infidelity. The fact is that there are NUMEROUS diseases out there - *especially* sexually transmitted diseases - for which there are no cure. Several of these (not just the big 3 they taught you in Health class) are life threatening, reproducitivity threatening and/or can disable one for life....... and antibiotics, like penicillin, or even the "Big Guns" Vancomycin, can do NOTHING to prevent or cure them, you might as well take an aspirin........ definately "serial" adultery by your partner, but even ONE event, IS putting YOUR life in danger for their self gratification if you are physically intimate with them afterwards.brentsbaby612 said:???????
I am a nurse and I have tended people who died from disease they contracted from a SINGLE sexual encounter - one, just one encounter........ not a lifestyle of promescuity..... just one time of "falling" - the one who comes the strongest to mind was a beautiful 20 year old christian girl who was a virgin, until she let her guard down one time for one smooth talker and *it killed her.*
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Plan 9
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Henaynei said:
Thak you Henny; my home health aide was here, and you have written a better post than I could. Tell everyone about clymidia, please. (Sorry, I can't spell today.)
Few people know about this STD until it's far too late...for them, or for someone they know and love.
Guys, I spoke of husbands earlier, because I was replying to another women; please don't think that I feel that you're in any less of a bind if you marry a faithless woman. In addition, female spousal abuse of males is under-reported, because what guy wants to call the police and tell them that the "Little Woman" broke his arm?
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Henaynei
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Pubilc Service/Health announcement:
Chlamydia is THE most common STD - and the good news is that it is still curable!! BUT it is essentially symptomless and most people who have it and pass it on don't know they have it. It can be contracted by ANY intimate sexual contact.
Untreated it causes sterility in both men and women. The scaring it causes in the woman can cause the fertilized egg to not be able to exit from the fallopian tube into the uterus. Thus the embryo develops outside the uterus and creates a life threatening situation for mother and child. Many mothers do not survive such a medical emergency and I have never heard of a child that did. A child successfully born to a mother with Chlamydia can contract severe eye infections and pneumonia at birth.
further info is available on the web:
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/stdclam.htm
http://www.engenderhealth.org/wh/inf/dchl.html
and others
Chlamydia is THE most common STD - and the good news is that it is still curable!! BUT it is essentially symptomless and most people who have it and pass it on don't know they have it. It can be contracted by ANY intimate sexual contact.
Untreated it causes sterility in both men and women. The scaring it causes in the woman can cause the fertilized egg to not be able to exit from the fallopian tube into the uterus. Thus the embryo develops outside the uterus and creates a life threatening situation for mother and child. Many mothers do not survive such a medical emergency and I have never heard of a child that did. A child successfully born to a mother with Chlamydia can contract severe eye infections and pneumonia at birth.
further info is available on the web:
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/stdclam.htm
http://www.engenderhealth.org/wh/inf/dchl.html
and others
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Plan 9
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Thank you, Henny. I friend of mine had three separate operations for this infection, as they tried to save less and less of her reproductive sysetm each time.
While waiting for the last one, during which her remaining tube and overy were going to be jerked, her roomate was a lovely sixteen year-old girl, a virgin who had given in to the intimidating and unscrupulous advances of a man once. Her Chlamydia infection roared through her at such a rate that she was having an immediate and full hysterectomy.
She was checked right in, went in before my friend, who also had cancer, and she and her parents cried copiously for the three hour period they did have to wait. It made my friend cry, and it was her husband who had infected and reinfected her, because he had been secretly dumping his antibiotic because it couldn't be taken with alchohol.
My husband also contracted this STD, but an odd, but uninteresting thing happened so that I didn't get it from him.
While waiting for the last one, during which her remaining tube and overy were going to be jerked, her roomate was a lovely sixteen year-old girl, a virgin who had given in to the intimidating and unscrupulous advances of a man once. Her Chlamydia infection roared through her at such a rate that she was having an immediate and full hysterectomy.
She was checked right in, went in before my friend, who also had cancer, and she and her parents cried copiously for the three hour period they did have to wait. It made my friend cry, and it was her husband who had infected and reinfected her, because he had been secretly dumping his antibiotic because it couldn't be taken with alchohol.
My husband also contracted this STD, but an odd, but uninteresting thing happened so that I didn't get it from him.
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oh, thanks Henny. But I just didn't know what was being said here. I guess Plan 9 was saying something about penicillian...Did I spell it right? oh well.
give Thanks to G-d! You are so lucky Planny. Unfortunatly most of the women I talk to in this situation aren't so lucky.
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Plan 9
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brentsbaby612 said:
Sorry about that! I should have spelled it out.
give Thanks to G-d! You are so lucky Planny. Unfortunatly most of the women I talk to in this situation aren't so lucky.
No, they aren't and I have no idea why I was spared that when so many suffer, unless it involved my inability to bear that burden, a distinct possibility.
I had constant bouts of bronchitus during our short marriage (short in realtime; it seemed to last an eternity to me), and the doctor, for some reason chose an antibiotic also effective against early C infections. I was told not to drink alcohol, or it would be less effective. Same stuff my friend's husband was flushing at about the same time.
It's particularly sad because I still never had children; I'd should have taken that pretty, young girl's place, I think.
I like to think of her as married to some really great guy.
This STD was epidemic where we were living at the time; it was so bad that the doctors at the hospital wouldn't allow vistors to use the patients' restrooms; they feared that it was transmissable through some vector they had somehow missed. They were wrong, thank the Good L-rd, but the numbers were just so high that they were right to be worried.
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GOSH! That's bad! I think the std epidemic is under reported in the media. Everytime I hear something about it they always say "So be sure to use protection" Yeah Right! Like that's going to stop anything! Nobody ever says anything about abstainance!
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Plan 9
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brentsbaby612 said:GOSH! That's bad! I think the std epidemic is under reported in the media. Everytime I hear something about it they always say "So be sure to use protection" Yeah Right! Like that's going to stop anything! Nobody ever says anything about abstainance!
I'll bet the doctors there wanted absolutely everyone tp cut out all hanky-panky for at least a year. My friend and I were married, though; this is the sad thing.
That was many years ago, so I hope the reporting is far better now when it comes to chlamydia. Not so many years before that, it hadn't ben recognised as the serious illness it was, and then here were these doctors were faced with a STD epidemic everyone was calling "The Silent Killer".
I think people who say things like, "This STD is a punishment from G-d", or any form of "This'll never happen to me." and are in the worst danger because of their complacency. These are diseases with no minds, no direction; they motivated by the drives to survive and reproduce, and that's all.
Fidelity and abstenance are undoubtedly the best safeguards.
They've been promoting abstenance in an African country, and I wonder if I still have that newspaper...rats, prpbably not. Anyway, this threefold-program (yes, concoms are involved, but least so) is working far better than the conventional one to stem their terrifing HIV epidemic.
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Henaynei
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just a note - oral sex is still....... well, sex. Chlamydia as well as numerous OTHER STDs are passed just as easily orally..... one mucous membrane is as good as another......
Oral sex has become quite the fad in children as it is mistkenly seen as "safe" sex - because you can't get pregnant - would to G-d that pregnancy was the only thing they needed to be concerned about!
Oral sex has become quite the fad in children as it is mistkenly seen as "safe" sex - because you can't get pregnant - would to G-d that pregnancy was the only thing they needed to be concerned about!
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simchat_torah
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Its been some time since I read the statistics on it, but I believe among observant Jewish couples, the divorce rate was less than 1 in 200.
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What I'm looking for is what is understood by Jewish culture when you read what Jesus had to say about divorce. See, I think I'm missing something. Moses allowed it, granted because of hardness of heart, then Jesus said if it's done for anything other than a specific reason, it's adultery. I'm trying to rectify those two statements in my mind, but I believe I'm missing something. I do not believe Jesus came and changed laws. Moses said this, but Jesus explained them. That is the issue I'm stuck on.
Thanks for your help.
Thanks for your help.
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