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Disputed authenticity of John 7:53-8:11

OzSpen

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Do you think it is historical or simply a useful fiction? Lightfoot believes it is historical even though it is an interpolation.

The evidence points to it being an interpolation that was added later as it is not located in the two oldest full NT manuscripts, Sinaiticus and Vaticanus. The New International Version states after Mark 16:8, 'The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20'.

I don't have assured evidence to confirm what Bishop Lightfoot stated that Mark 16:9-20 is historical in all its facts. However, there is MSS evidence that various aspects of these verses have been included in some MSS.

There is not enough evidence for me to consider it is part of the God-breathed original text (2 Tim 3:16-17 NIV).

Oz
 
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Wgw

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I consider the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus to be very likely Arian-influenced texts. I would note the Byzantine text type in continuous liturgical use in the Greek church, is supported by fourth-century translations that have an Orthodox provenance, for example, the Vulgate, the Peshitta amd various Coptic bibles. One would expect these would agree with the "Alexandrian" text type if it were in fact more reliable.

I also very much shudder at the theological consequences in terms of Pelagianism, rigourism and sinless perfection that might stem from omitting this pericope. Because as of now only a tiny minority of primarily Baptist and non-denom preachers on the one hand, and various progressive mainline pastors inclined to view the adultery pericope as "patriarchal" on the other hand, have taught against it, we don't yet know what the ramifications of its omission will be, and I find that an unsettling prospect.
 
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cloudyday2

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I have noticed that when Christians learn to be more righteous, they almost always become smug and critical of those who are less righteous. This is Ash Wednesday for the Western calendar. It is ironic that succeeding in righteousness inevitably creates a feeling of superiority over others. It is almost better to fail than to succeed. However, Christians are supposed to try to be righteous.

You are right that the pericope is a useful reminder to Christians.
 
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Wgw

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I have noticed that when Christians learn to be more righteous, they almost always become smug and critical of those who are less righteous.

To the extent this is true, they have not in fact become more righteous; rather, they have merely fallen into the depths of prelest.
 
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cloudyday2

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ViaCrucis

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Imagined righteousness is generally the antithesis of actual righteousness. We have, for example, the story of the Pharisee and the Publican to show us the difference. The confusion of moralism or rigorism with righteousness is often what in the Lutheran tradition we would call the Opinio Legis--the Opinion of the Law--which is part of the theology of glory and could be said to be man's most natural heresy.

The man who believes himself righteous, put most simply, isn't.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Nihilist Virus

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This would explain why Ted Cruz is not following Jesus' example in the story.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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I believe that event should be in the Bible.
I am not a fan of the KJV Bible and like comparing greek texts with one another.

Here is a site that shows 5 of the greek texts:


http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B43C008.htm

And one with various Bible versions:

http://biblehub.com/john/8-1.htm

I took this quote from another thread discussing this topic:

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/woman-taken-in-adultery-john-7-53-to-john-8-11.7835594/





.
 
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cloudyday2

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bhsmte

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I think it was a later marketing decision. It was a cool story, so why not toss it in later.
 
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doubtingmerle

I'll think about it.
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We believe that the original autographs were God-breathed.
...but we don't know what was in the original autographs, so we don't really know what we believe is God-breathed?
 
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ChetSinger

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...but we don't know what was in the original autographs, so we don't really know what we believe is God-breathed?
We can't be certain to the letter, but we have enough data to have high confidence that the message is easily understood. And to me, that's what matters. I actually think we risk losing more through translation than through manuscript corruption.
 
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Eudaimonist

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Even if that passage is a well-meaning inclusion from oral tradition, and not merely made up on the spot (perhaps to push some individual's political or theological agenda), it still is ambiguous whether it is a fabrication or not. Oral tradition may sometimes be correct, but there is certainly no guarantee of that, especially after a few hundred years had passed. You could flip a coin at this point.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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