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dispensationalism?

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stratt

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Why is dispensationalism not a congregation, but a thology? Or to put it another way, how come there is no "church of jesus christs dispensation" or something like that. Ive noticed most dispensationalists are non-denominational.... why is there not a specific church where everyone admits to only a dispensational view?

I just find it strange, the whole dispensational thing is new to me.... i hope i will not be viewed as a moron.


look.... > :confused: that guy represents me .
 

TheScottsMen

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Why is dispensationalism not a congregation, but a thology? Or to put it another way, how come there is no "church of jesus christs dispensation" or something like that. Ive noticed most dispensationalists are non-denominational.... why is there not a specific church where everyone admits to only a dispensational view?

I just find it strange, the whole dispensational thing is new to me.... i hope i will not be viewed as a moron.


look.... > :confused: that guy represents me .

Dispensationalism is more about a way you study scripture than a set of beliefs. For example, one may be both a Dispensationalist and a Pentecostal; on maybe a Dispensatioanlist and a Baptist; the point being that the emphasis is on interpretion, not creed.
 
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earl673

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But arent the different creeds due to lack of proper interpretation? Or wouldn't interpretation define creed?
Do dispensationalists not agree?

Yes, different creeds are due to the lack of proper interpretations. That is why you should look at:

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Rightly dividing the word helps you, as an individual, to understand the difference in any given dispensation. Right now, we are in the dispensation of grace and we follow Paul's teachings and this was so stated in,
1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Yes, some dispensationlist do not always agree. You have some who stick with: Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost., you have some that stick with the Mid-Acts position which covers either Acts chapter 9,11 or 13 and finally you have the ultra dispensationlist who follow what's in the back half of Acts chapter 28.

One final note and that is to try and understand
2Tim 2:15 and take your studies from that point on. Actually, Paul's msg of truth is very easy and simple to understand.

:amen:
 
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LamorakDesGalis

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Why is dispensationalism not a congregation, but a thology? Or to put it another way, how come there is no "church of jesus christs dispensation" or something like that. Ive noticed most dispensationalists are non-denominational.... why is there not a specific church where everyone admits to only a dispensational view?

I just find it strange, the whole dispensational thing is new to me.... i hope i will not be viewed as a moron.

You have excellent questions, so you certainly aren't a moron. :D

Dispensationalism became coherent through John Darby, whose church was a part of the Plymouth Brethren. So the Plymouth Brethren today is one dispensational denomination.

In the 1800s, the writings of Darby and other Plymouth Brethren were very influential on American Christians. The popularity of these writings gave rise to the Bible Conference Movement. In Bible conferences, many like-minded folks came together to study and share notes. This included large numbers of Presbyterians, Baptists, and Congregationalists. But dispensational beliefs weren't limited to these denominations. This largely laity-led Bible Conference Movement is the reason why dispensationalism as a whole cuts across denominational lines.

When the modernist-fundamentalist controversy broke open, dispensationalists were always on the fundamentalist side. Dispensationalists in fact provided leadership and unity to the fundamentalist movement. Many new groups were formed as a result of the controversy. Some of these were were largely dispensational when founded, and most continue to be dispensational in their doctrinal views to this day.

Here are a number of dispensational groups, with a bit of its origin info and estimated US membership:

General Association of Regular Baptist Churches - broke away from the American Baptist Convention in 1932. Has about 90,000 members.

Conservative Baptist Association - organization consisting of independent Baptist churches, founded in 1947 and has about 200,000 members.

Fellowship of Grace Brethren Churches - founded in 1939 with about 30,000 members.

Independent Fundamentalist Churches of America - founded in 1930 and has about 60,000 members.

Grace Gospel Fellowship - founded in 1944, this is a "Pauline" or Mid-acts dispensationalist organization with about 60,000 members.

Baptist Bible Fellowship International - began in 1950, consists of independent Baptist churches and has about 1 million members. A group who split from this is the Global Independent Baptist Fellowship, a KJV only dispensationalist organization.

Baptist Missionary Association of America - began in 1950 (but changed the name to the present BMA in 1968). They are Landmark Baptists and many are dispensationalist, with about 230,000 members.

Berean Fundamental Church - 1947 is the official beginning of the organization, with about 8,000 members.

Bible Fellowship Church - a Mennonite group, it separated from the main group in 1858. Today it has about 7,000 members.

Now there are Holiness/Wesleyan/Pentecostal organizations (i.e. Christian and Missionary Alliance, Assemblies of God, etc.) which are premillennial, but not dispensational. Its not that they exclude dispensationalism, in fact a number of members are dispensational - its just the official organization's position allows for a variety of premil views than just dispensationalism.

I'm sure there are others groups not mentioned here, maybe someone would be willing to contribute any additional ones they know about.


But arent the different creeds due to lack of proper interpretation? Or wouldnt interpretation define creed?
Do dispensationalists not agree?

Dispensationalism is not a centralized movement - that is, dispensationalism doesn't center around a specific official creed or person. The Presbyterian church for example, is centralized because it centers beliefs around specific creeds. Even though splits are common, the different Presbyterian groups share common theological views and ecclesiology structure with each other.

Dispensationalists on the other hand are found in a wide variety of denominations. Positions in theology, practices and beliefs vary widely. There are Arminian disps, Calvinist disps, KJV only disps, etc. What dispensationalists do share with one another is a specific approach to Scripture built on certain concepts - inerrancy of Scripture, that Israel is distinct from the church, that progressive revelation is very important, etc.

That is why I agree with TheScottsMen when he says the emphasis is on interpretation rather than any specific creed. But because of the wide diversity of dispensationalists, the details of these interpretations vary widely.


Lamorak Des Galis
 
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MC1171611

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Good points up there. The word "dispensation" is found four times in the Bible. Every time it is refering to a time period, usually referencing Salvation. Paul said that the Dispensation of the Grace of God was given to him. That means that there are OTHER dispensations, logically with other modifiers, like NOT "of Grace."

Dispensationalism may trace its roots back to Darby, though I can see it plainly enough in the Bible. The most important verse in the entire Bible, with regard to study, is 2 Timothy 2:15, "STUDY to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING the word of truth." That "WORD OF TRUTH" is the Scriptures, or the Bible. We are COMMANDED to divide It, so logically there must be divisions in It.

I am an Independent Baptist. Our church teaches the Right Divsion of Scripture, even though most churches don't. It is very sad, though, the number of people, even strong Christians, who don't know how to Divide the Word. The dispensational part is pretty much treated just like any standard or conviction in a Church. Actually, the only reason that we use the word "Baptist" in our name at all is that it affiliates us with the "denomination" that is closest to the Bible. Most Baptists are messed up in more ways than one, but they are closest.

So, dispensationalism IS a "theology," not a variety of religion or a denomination. You will find dispensationalists in almost every denomination that teaches the Bible as God's Word. Even some old-time Methodists are probably dispensational.

I hope these posts help answer your questions!

MC1171611
 
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timlamb

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It is refreshing to hear honest questions asked. Dispensationalism is about time lines and bible study, but the "rightly dividing" part is a relitively small sect who hold strongly to the words of Paul, infact, that is where they divide the bible, the writings of Paul.

It won't cost you salvation, but it will cost you knowledge and life lessons from the rest of scripture. But the "Paulines" seem to think it is the rest of us who will pay for not "dividing" (Judgemental bunch).
 
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Dispy

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It is refreshing to hear honest questions asked. Dispensationalism is about time lines and bible study, but the "rightly dividing" part is a relitively small sect who hold strongly to the words of Paul, infact, that is where they divide the bible, the writings of Paul.

It won't cost you salvation, but it will cost you knowledge and life lessons from the rest of scripture. But the "Paulines" seem to think it is the rest of us who will pay for not "dividing" (Judgemental bunch).

God, through Moses, gave His instructions in righteousness for the children of Israel, through the 613Civil, Moral and Ceremonial Laws of Moses. It is called "the gospel of the kingdom," with an earthly kingdom in view, for all OT saints.

God, through Paul, gave His instructions in righteousness for members of the Body of Christ through the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began. It is called "the gospel of the grace of God", and has a heavenly home in view, for all members of the Body of Christ.

For my instructions in righteous, I do not look to the Laws of Moses. I look to Paul's gospel for my instructions.

Law and Grace are two opposing doctrines. Law says to obey the Law or pay the penalty. Grace is unmerited favor. When the gospels (doctrines) of Law and Grace are mixed, one ends up with a "scrambled egg" doctrine that leads to confusion and denominations.

Eggs, when scrambled, can not be unscrambled. However, a "scrambled egg doctrine" can be unscrambled by "rightly dividing the Word of truth" (2Tim.2:15).

tim, I find your second paragraph above grossly in error. Every dispensationalist I know studies the entire Bible, as it is all for our learning (Rm.15:4). By doing that, we learn all the attributes of a loving graceous God. Also, I find your last statement very judgmental. You remind me of the pot that calls the kettle black.
 
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timlamb

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"rightly dividing the Word of truth" (2Tim.2:15).
This means to correctly interpret the word of God.

tim, I find your second paragraph above grossly in error. Every dispensationalist I know studies the entire Bible, as it is all for our learning (Rm.15:4). By doing that, we learn all the attributes of a loving graceous God. Also, I find your last statement very judgmental. You remind me of the pot that calls the kettle black.
[/QUOTE]
You are a very small dispensationalist sect who believes those two words unlock the truth, and it has been made clear more than once by members of your group that I am to face judgement, ashamed, for not "dividing" God's Holy Word. That is passing judgement, I have made no such judgement calls. If you do not believe the statements of the others to be true, speak up. But by invoking the pot and kettle thing you are admitting it is true, just trying to draw me into it.
 
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eph3Nine

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God, through Moses, gave His instructions in righteousness for the children of Israel, through the 613Civil, Moral and Ceremonial Laws of Moses. It is called "the gospel of the kingdom," with an earthly kingdom in view, for all OT saints.

God, through Paul, gave His instructions in righteousness for members of the Body of Christ through the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began. It is called "the gospel of the grace of God", and has a heavenly home in view, for all members of the Body of Christ.

For my instructions in righteous, I do not look to the Laws of Moses. I look to Paul's gospel for my instructions.

Law and Grace are two opposing doctrines. Law says to obey the Law or pay the penalty. Grace is unmerited favor. When the gospels (doctrines) of Law and Grace are mixed, one ends up with a "scrambled egg" doctrine that leads to confusion and denominations.

Eggs, when scrambled, can not be unscrambled. However, a "scrambled egg doctrine" can be unscrambled by "rightly dividing the Word of truth" (2Tim.2:15).

tim, I find your second paragraph above grossly in error. Every dispensationalist I know studies the entire Bible, as it is all for our learning (Rm.15:4). By doing that, we learn all the attributes of a loving graceous God. Also, I find your last statement very judgmental. You remind me of the pot that calls the kettle black.


I find much of what Tim writes to be in error. You would think he would be greatful to learn the REAL gospel and want to KNOW what God has provided for him, instead of setting himself in opposition. I just dont get it!:scratch:
 
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MC1171611

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Tim, can you tell me how many Gospels are in the Bible? Can you tell me how many ressurections are in the Bible? Raptures? Judgements? How about Crowns? Who are the "Sons of God" in Genesis 6 and Job 1 and 2? Can you tell me these things? They are quite simple, but unless you're a Pauline, Rightly Dividing Dispensationalist, you won't get most, if any, of those.
 
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stratt

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Tim, can you tell me how many Gospels are in the Bible? Can you tell me how many ressurections are in the Bible? Raptures? Judgements? How about Crowns? Who are the "Sons of God" in Genesis 6 and Job 1 and 2? Can you tell me these things? They are quite simple, but unless you're a Pauline, Rightly Dividing Dispensationalist, you won't get most, if any, of those.


Can YOU tell ME? I think it goes.... 7, 2, 1, 1, dont know, and finally, demons.

Wich ones do i have wrong? I might get more right if i look in tha bible, but im just guessing off the top of my head.
 
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MC1171611

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Can YOU tell ME? I think it goes.... 7, 2, 1, 1, dont know, and finally, demons.

Wich ones do i have wrong? I might get more right if i look in tha bible, but im just guessing off the top of my head.

Ok, well counting "another gospel" that Paul talked about in Galatians, there are four Gospels in the Bible. 1) Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven, 2) Gospel of the Kingdom of God (also the Grace of God), 3) Everlasting Gospel and 4) Another gospel. The last one is a false gospel, or rather one of the others taught out of the correct time period.

Ressurections, there are 7 of those. (Let's do those later...I'm wigged out tonight)

Raptures: there are three of those. (many things in the Bible, you will find, are in 7s and 3s) The Rapture of the dead at Christ's Ressurection (led captivity captive), The Rapture of the Church right before the Tribulation, and the Rapture of the Jews sometime during the Tribulation.

Judgements: also seven. Again, let's do those later. Actually, we could start a thread on that. If someone does that, would you be so kind to let me know so I can jump in on the discussion? I'm pretty busy but if you feel like it I'll participate.

Crowns, there are five. My sister memorized them; let me see if I can recall those. Crown of Righteousness, Crown of Rejoicing, Crown of Life, Crown of Glory, Incorruptible Crown. You can search those; preferably the KJB. ;)

The Sons of God are actually angels. They can be found in Job, actually more places than I mentioned, and in Genesis 6 as taking women to be their wives. God created them originally, and some of them did fall with Lucifer, and others left their first habitation and married women, and the rest are still in Heaven worshipping God like they were created for.

I have Scriptures for all of this, but I'm in a hurry. I'll try to get back here sometime soon...is there some way to get e-mail notification of new replies to topics? I looked but couldn't find anywhere to turn that on...
 
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MC1171611

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Wouldnt there have to be at least 7 gospels? If there are 7 dispensations? I would think that after the judgments there would be "good news" except the last perhaps.....

Also, if they were angels that left their first estate.... wouldnt that make them demons?
You will only find those four in the Bible; there are other means and methods of "Salvation" in the Old Testament, for example, but those are never refered to as a gospel. Noah did it differently, The Jews in the OT under the Law did it differently, etc. Everyone had something that he/she had to do to gain favor with God; that varies widely based on the Dispensation. However, only the ones that I mentioned are ever refered to as "Gospels."

The second batch simply left their first estate; they willingly left, though they didn't rebel as the angels that fell with Lucifer. They are simply bound in chains of darkness, awaiting the day that we will judge them. Even there, Paul refers to them as angels, not demons ("devils" is the Bible word).
 
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foundinHim

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In the O.T., the "sons of God" are angels.

The "sons of God" in these verses, in the N.T., are NOT angels, but humans.
(John 1:12)
But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name:

(Rom.8:14)
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

(Rom.8:19)
For the earnest expectation for the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

(Phil.2:15)
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

(1John 3:1-2)
Behold what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew Him not.
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.
 
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