Discussion With A Mormon

SeventhValley · Jan 22, 2015

buzuxi02 said:
Yeah never heard of that. Are these underwears the mormon patron saint for fertility or ED? I mean what kind of magic are they supposed to work?

From Wikipedia on them:

A temple garment (also referred to as garments, or Mormon underwear)[2] is a type of underwear worn by adherents of the Latter Day Saint movement after they have taken part in the endowment ceremony. Garments are worn both day and night and are required for any adult who previously participated in the endowment ceremony to enter a temple.[3] The undergarments are viewed as a symbolic reminder of the covenants made in temple ceremonies and are seen as either a symbolic or literal source of protection from the evils of the world.[4]
The garment is given as part of the washing and anointing portion of the endowment. Today, the temple garment is worn primarily by members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) and by members of some Mormon fundamentalist churches. Adherents consider them to be sacred and not suitable for public display.

SeventhValley · Jan 22, 2015

gurneyhalleck1 said:
Cute Mormon, nice! She'd be a good grab! She doesn't drink caffeine, they're pretty moral, clean-cut, a touch naive. The only downside is the whole false prophet, spirit babies, magic underwear, Planet Kolob, lost bronze plates hidden in Palmyra, NY, secret marriage underground sealing ceremonies, false holy books, history of racism and polygamy, and overall weirdness.

Secret underground meetings of cannibalism is what the Christians were accused of.

Just saying that to an unbeliever Mormonism is no less odd than Christianity.

endofrope · Jan 22, 2015

She might not know everything they believe. Remember that the LDS organization involves itself in your entire life. It is very controlling and they deliberately make it diffcult to leave. As much as I hate their lies and all the spritual evil that uses the LDS to control and enslave people, most of the lower echelon, rank and file are controlled, not controlling, and have limited knowledge of LDS doctrines. She is probably more deceived than deceiver. Probably doesn't need you cutting her to shreds with your doctrinal rotary canon. Pray about what the Lord wants you to do.

endofrope · Jan 22, 2015

SeventhValley said:
Secret underground meetings of cannibalism is what the Christians were accused of.

Just saying that to an unbeliever Mormonism is no less odd than Christianity.

But those accusations agains Christians were lies. The Mormon practices specified in this thread are for the most part true. Swing and a miss.....

buzuxi02 · Jan 22, 2015

SeventhValley said:
Their theology is heretical but no more unbelievable than that of the Bible.

Not really, mormons think Jesus visted America and something about the lost tribes found amongst the Native americans.

if someone told me George Washington after his presidency then went to Australia where he found the lost inhabitants of Roanoke, I would know its all fiction.

Look at Islam for example, its plausible to say as they do that Muhammed was the last in a long line of prophets starting with the hebrews. Using this as a foundation its also understandable for the bahais to claim that their founder was the next prophet to succeed Muhamed. On the other hand if someone from Iceland claimed he found a "part 2" to the Koran and Icelanders are ancestors of the caliph according to that newly found writing and iceland was anointed as new zion, that would be preposterous.

E.C. · Jan 23, 2015

I sometimes think that Mormon converts to Orthodoxy should have to drink a cup of coffee when they renounce their former heresies

The high school I went to was about 20% Mormon (1200 students) and most of them had the face of a "perfect student" but were the hardest drinkers at the parties. Most of them fell away from their faith after they got out of the house and could be free from their parents' rules. Probably... 1/3 of the Mormons in my class actually went on their two year mission trips.

My dad once had a Mormon co-worker who tried to say that Mormonism and Orthodoxy were "the same". My dad's response was simple, "No. I've studied your religion. Your religion was started as a response to Western Christianity. My Church is Eastern Christianity!"

gurneyhalleck1 · Jan 23, 2015

And what are we "accusing" Mormons of doing, Seventh? We go by WHAT THEY SAY THEY DO, the Roman propaganda machine went by false accusations, lies, deceit to try to defame a group. The Mormons admit the loony stuff they do. Just sayin'....

And I beg to disagree. I have a good friend who's a bit of an agnostic borderline deist type. He's fine with Protestants, Catholics, just about anyone, but when his half brother converted to Mormonism, he felt like the guy was joining an insane cult. Gotta tell ya, the Mormons have a majorly bad rep with their wild beliefs. Orthodox Christianity isn't as off-the-charts wild and loony in the eyes of most as Mormonism and J-dubs!

SeventhValley said:
Secret underground meetings of cannibalism is what the Christians were accused of.

Just saying that to an unbeliever Mormonism is no less odd than Christianity.

gurneyhalleck1 · Jan 23, 2015

Seventh,

Each of your posts is a continual devil's advocate badgering with *sarcasm* thrown in as an out. Why the continued need to poke us in the ribs regarding faith? That post on this page about faith was a poke for sure. I think you need to either come to terms with atheism and that you can never have faith in Christ, or else realize you're in an Orthodox forum where our lives are driven by faith, period. Comparing our faith to the outlandishness of LDS folks, it's just plain over-the-top.

SeventhValley said:
Those are the same reasons Christianity spread. Both were persecuted also.

Their theology is heretical but no more unbelievable than alot of the Bible.

GregConstantine · Jan 23, 2015

There is a good point that was made about Mormons that we Orthodox could do a lot better about. That was how they are a much more tight knit community, support each other, are (at least superficially) much more unified administratively then we are. I've said it before and I'll say it again, we Orthodox need to a much much better job being a much more tight knit community than we are now. I hate to say it, but if you want to become, say a missionary, you'll have people flocking to you to support you if you're a Mormon (if you're a protestant too). Orthodox and want to become a missionary? Good luck with that, the new unneccesary expansion of the parish hall might take priority.

That is just an example, please don't get side tracked by the example and focus on the point I'm trying to make.

What is it going to take for us to be a much more tight knit community?

SeventhValley · Jan 23, 2015

buzuxi02 said:
Not really, mormons think Jesus visted America and something about the lost tribes found amongst the Native americans.

if someone told me George Washington after his presidency then went to Australia where he found the lost inhabitants of Roanoke, I would know its all fiction.

Look at Islam for example, its plausible to say as they do that Muhammed was the last in a long line of prophets starting with the hebrews. Using this as a foundation its also understandable for the bahais to claim that their founder was the next prophet to succeed Muhamed. On the other hand if someone from Iceland claimed he found a "part 2" to the Koran and Icelanders are ancestors of the caliph according to that newly found writing and iceland was anointed as new zion, that would be preposterous.

No more proposterous to non-Christians than a world wide flood with no evidence,talking snakes and donkeys, Angels mating with humans,people turning to salt,chariots of fire,magical paintings etc...

So finding a tablet in the ground is no stretch. You can make theological arguments and argue from experience but the ridicule is basically proving atheism. This is not the place for that because it is an Orthodox site.

SeventhValley · Jan 23, 2015

GregConstantine said:
There is a good point that was made about Mormons that we Orthodox could do a lot better about. That was how they are a much more tight knit community, support each other, are (at least superficially) much more unified administratively then we are. I've said it before and I'll say it again, we Orthodox need to a much much better job being a much more tight knit community than we are now. I hate to say it, but if you want to become, say a missionary, you'll have people flocking to you to support you if you're a Mormon (if you're a protestant too). Orthodox and want to become a missionary? Good luck with that, the new unneccesary expansion of the parish hall might take priority.

That is just an example, please don't get side tracked by the example and focus on the point I'm trying to make.

What is it going to take for us to be a much more tight knit community?

Honestly they do a great job. I have seen 15 Mormons drive an hour to help someone they do not know in from another church pack a moving van.

~Anastasia~ · Jan 23, 2015

GregConstantine said:
There is a good point that was made about Mormons that we Orthodox could do a lot better about. That was how they are a much more tight knit community, support each other, are (at least superficially) much more unified administratively then we are. I've said it before and I'll say it again, we Orthodox need to a much much better job being a much more tight knit community than we are now. I hate to say it, but if you want to become, say a missionary, you'll have people flocking to you to support you if you're a Mormon (if you're a protestant too). Orthodox and want to become a missionary? Good luck with that, the new unneccesary expansion of the parish hall might take priority.

That is just an example, please don't get side tracked by the example and focus on the point I'm trying to make.

What is it going to take for us to be a much more tight knit community?

It's a worthwhile question. But I have to say that I'm pretty amazed by how tightly knit my own parish is. I've sincerely been taken in and made family. And just like any family, you have all kinds of family members. But I've been amazed how they are with each other and with me. And at times, I've seen that even online among Orthodox. Though by comparison, the online also has so much more disagreeing and lack of this kind of unity that at times it can be a disappointment.

In my parish, I have wondered if maybe it doesn't have to do with the fact that 80% or so of the parish is connected by blood, and the rest are generally connected by god-families. I'm not sure though. I've sometimes been very warmly welcomed at parishes and a monastery I visited as well.

GregConstantine · Jan 23, 2015

By parish it might be, but that's few and far between. We need to also have that community across parishes.

~Anastasia~ · Jan 23, 2015

GregConstantine said:
By parish it might be, but that's few and far between. We need to also have that community across parishes.

I wasn't sure how rare/common it might be (I never want to move!) ... But I agree that across parishes and in other ways could be better.

Experiencing my own parish HAS led me to be disappointed sometimes otherwise. Though I see a lot of good out there. But it could be better, and certainly more consistent.

Like I said, I think blood is a major factor in my parish, and that can't be replicated. So ... With you, I wonder what can help?

GregConstantine · Jan 23, 2015

Not just with me, but with all of us. There is such lack of organization and an actual revulsion towards being organized. I've been told being organized and holding others accountable is not the Orthodox way.

~Anastasia~ · Jan 23, 2015

GregConstantine said:
Not just with me, but with all of us. There is such lack of organization and an actual revulsion towards being organized. I've been told being organized and holding others accountable is not the Orthodox way.

I actually was not aware òf this.

Do you think it could have something to do with the number of jurisdictions in the US (and other historically non-Orthodox countries) or is this a worldwide thing?

GregConstantine · Jan 23, 2015

Most Orthodox in this country are so focused on their ethnicity that it causes them to have a very myopic view on things. This I think is the primary issue that is the cause of the lack of an overall unified vision and message. The vision and message is there, its not being articulated.

Where do you live Kylissa? I'm asking because I'm wondering if you're from a part of the country that doesn't have a large Mormon or Jewish population (the Jews are similar in this respect to the Mormons) I grew up in the DC area and now live in Baltimore, there is a very large and influential Jewish population in this area, as well as a large Mormon presence (more so in DC than Baltimore)

One famous landmark in the DC area is the Mormon temple in Kensington MD, a few miles outside DC.

I'm asking this because I've been able to compare what they are like (Jews and Mormons) to what we are like (Orthodox) having grown up with many Jewish and Mormon friends, neighbors, teachers, doctors, etc.

E.C. · Jan 23, 2015

GregConstantine said:
What is it going to take for us to be a much more tight knit community?

Open, large scale persecution.

Since we're talking Mormons here, we must remember that Mormonism moved to Missouri and then later to Utah. The reason being that mobs would burn Mormon churches and kill people, including founder Joseph Smith. That is why they are so tight knit is because they were openly persecuted on a large scale and had to survive.

gzt · Jan 23, 2015

Is tight-knittedness, especially for its own sake, always desirable? Frankly, one shouldn't be required to be friends with everybody in the parish, and those who aren't shouldn't be made to feel excluded on that basis - this sometimes happens. To be close, there usually has to be some kind of basis for relation, and pure religion alone is by no means sufficient if one is simply not all that much like somebody else. That said, one of the great, or what should be great, things about Church is that it is a great leveler - people who would not otherwise have any reason to interact and care for each other are no different and are purely equals. The high powered lawyers, the janitors, the soldiers, etc, they all prostrate right next to each other in Lent and stand right next to each other in every liturgy.

GregConstantine · Jan 23, 2015

gzt, you are reading waaaaayyy too much into what I'm saying. Take note that I specifically mentioned that I have experience growing up amongst a significant Jewish and Mormon minority presence and saw/experienced first hand the way they do things and how that impacts their communities.

My comment automatically puts it on the macro level, you are focusing on the micro/interpersonal relationships, that's not what I'm talking about.

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