Discarding the OT & John the Baptist?

[ananda]

Regarding Jesus' statement: "All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them." Jn 10:8

Does this mean that Christians should disregard the OT & even John the Baptist?

 

[redleghunter]

Regarding Jesus' statement: "All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them." Jn 10:8

Does this mean that Christians should disregard the OT & even John the Baptist?

No I don't think so. What leads you to this conclusion?

I believe Jesus speaks of false prophets and false messiahs before him.

John 10: KJV

10 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

 

[ananda]

No I don't think so. What leads you to this conclusion?

I believe Jesus speaks of false prophets and false messiahs before him ...

Thanks.

It leads me to that conclusion because the verse refers to "all", without qualification.

 

[Lulav]

Regarding Jesus' statement: "All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them." Jn 10:8

Does this mean that Christians should disregard the OT & even John the Baptist?

It leads me to that conclusion because the verse refers to "all", without qualification

Hi Ananda!

I think the clue lies in what comes after what you highlighted.

"the sheep did not hear them"

If there are sheep there must be a Shepherd. Remember Jesus said he was the Good Shepherd and the Shepherd lay down his life for the sheep.

Also the prophecy about the night he was arrested 'they will strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter' paraphrased.

Jesus, Yeshua was the greatest Rabbi who has ever lived. It is those shepherds he is speaking of, not the prophets, not John.

 

[paul1149]

Regarding Jesus' statement: "All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them." Jn 10:8

Does this mean that Christians should disregard the OT & even John the Baptist?

Jesus himself commended John the Baptist, as a burning light and as the prophesied Elijah, and He was saddened at his death. And He referred to the OT repeatedly to prove He was the promised Messiah.

Expanding the context of the verse in question to include other passages makes it impossible to conclude that Jesus is condemning prophets such as John, or the entire OT.

Also, in the Greek, "all" does not always mean literally all. It can, for instance, mean "some of every kind". But the more important point is that when interpreting the Bible you have to seek adequate context. One verse may serve as a personal word from the Lord, but it does not make for sound doctrine. Paul told the Ephesian elders at his farewell meeting with them that he was innocent of the blood of all men because he had not withheld the full counsel of God.

 

[redleghunter]

Thanks.

It leads me to that conclusion because the verse refers to "all", without qualification.

I see.

We would have to look at where Jesus Christ does qualify all those before Him who were righteous. For example, this is what Jesus said about John the Baptist:

Matthew 11: NKJV

As they departed, Jesus began to say to the multitudes concerning John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8 But what did you go out to see? A man clothed in soft garments? Indeed, those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses. 9 But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. 10 For this is he of whom it is written:


‘Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.’

11 “Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come. 15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Regarding Jesus' statement: "All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them." Jn 10:8

Does this mean that Christians should disregard the OT & even John the Baptist?

No. Definitely not.

 

[-V-]

Regarding Jesus' statement: "All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them." Jn 10:8

Does this mean that Christians should disregard the OT & even John the Baptist?

The "all" there refers to people who came before professing to be the Messiah.

 

[lesliedellow]

Thanks.

It leads me to that conclusion because the verse refers to "all", without qualification.

How do people manage to get so hung up over the slightest piece of hyperbole when it comes to religion?

I have tried everything....
I have looked everwhere.....
There isn't any chance.....
You can't believe any word he says.

Do aan of them mean literally, absolutely, 100% what they say?

 

[1watchman]

How do people manage to get so hung up over the slightest piece of hyperbole when it comes to religion?

I have tried everything....
I have looked everwhere.....
There isn't any chance.....
You can't believe any word he says.

Do aan of them mean literally, absolutely, 100% what they say?

I agree! People get some strange ideas about God's Word, instead of taking "all the counsel of God" and be "rightly dividing the Word of Truth". I wonder if they are sincere seekers or just enjoy fighting against the Bible.

 

[eider]

Regarding Jesus' statement: "All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them." Jn 10:8

Does this mean that Christians should disregard the OT & even John the Baptist?

Hello....
The quoted verse needs to be taken in to it's context. For instance, see
John {10:1} Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. {10:2} But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

The above is a reasonable parable based upon sheep rustlers. It was spoken to (mostly) simple working folks to remind them of how many brigands and bandits had sprung up in the past, later claiming to be Meshiahs. But Jesus was not a brigand or bandit...... he wanted to take up where the Immerser had to leave off when arrested, and later murdered.

But many of the OT laws of Moses were to be discarded. Jesus repealed 96 of them in one sentence! The laws of Moses which needed to be re-enforced were repeated in the New Covenant either by Jesus, His prophets or His apostles.