Disappointment with God...

[UCLA]

As I grow older and more educated, I am learning to think for myself and question the validity of thoughts I hold to be true.

One of them is faith. I cannot say that I am the same believer who grew up in the church, who accepted the bible as whole truth as I once did. And no, I am not renouncing my faith, but I am questioning.

What does God say about the helpless caught up in the daily affairs of life? Those who have worked all their lives just to make a living? How does one see life as a gift if one cannot enjoy the fruits of it?

A good family friend of ours is dying with prostate cancer. He has no insurance and cannot afford treatment. Doctors told him that he is at the stage where accepting his death peacefully is the only alternative. My mother was also diagnosed with breast cancer few months ago. Fortunately for her, she had a friend who provided medical insurance.

I am not saying that God is at fault for causing cancer. but as long as he is the same God who loves us enough to send his son to die for our sins, why does it seem like he doesn't care? I know the usual response is he does... but to those who are suffering, outcome is the same: they are dying and will most likely die.

God seems so passive. I don't think he is really what people make of him. How can the events of healing and miracles be true? It was written more than 1500 years ago. Do you see dead men rising today? Have you seen an amputee's limb grow back? When was the last time you heard of a supernatural healing of a cancer patient?

I certainly havent, and if you are a person of conscience, you too would agree that it is only a story, a legend. I am desperately trying to help the desperately sick. I want to go on a fast to hear from God and gain favor from him but I fear that I will be let down. I know that I will be letdown, because whether I pray or not, life will go as planned. Some will die and some won't. Does God really care or do people hope that he does?

 

[Onlythingavailable]

I believe it is because we live in a fallen world. Once Jesus comes again there will be no cancer or suffering. Of course, you now ask why hasn't Jesus come again. The answer to that, I believe, is because God wants as many as possible to be saved.

Death isn't the end of all things. As Christians we have God's promise of eternal life. Draw comfort from that, and know that when Jesus comes, things will be all right.

I do believe God still heals miraculously. It might not happen as openly as it did during Jesus' days, but that may be because most don't believe in it anymore. I have read about miraculous healing taking place, and I personally believe God once healed a tooth of mine, when I was young and scared to death of going to the dentist. The miraculous healing I've read about has usually been at prayer meetings and the likes, where there has been speaking of tongues and such.

 

[LilLamb219]

I agree with what onlythingavailable wrote above in that we live in a fallen world that will greatly affect us and that miracles aren't as wide as they were in Jesus' day.

Don't put the basis of your faith on what is happening in the world right now. Put it on Jesus Christ and Him crucified for the forgiveness of your sins.

 

[FightingForHim7]

So you don't hear on the news about someone blind waking up one day and being able to see the world clearly. There's like this unwritten law that Christians use saying, "God does not interfere with our lives." Have you heard a non-believer accuse God of being a tyrant or a being able to control everyone's lives. That makes God sound bad, and that's why people use the whole "He doesn't interfere," 'law'.

Imagine, if He reached out daily and obliterated war, cured cancer, put out the wild fires, and stopped hurricanes from causing destruction. Life just can't work like that on Earth with humans.

But miracles... what amazing things. You cannot say they don't exist. And I do believe God does touch lives and reaches out to help people. But He does it inconspicuously in a mortal way. That's what I believe. Like... for instance, signs. Just little things that don't stand out but speak loudly. Or actual cures. The cures we have today are miracles in themselves. And going back to the blind guy. There are some people who were blind but can now see thanks to today's technology and medical advancements. A guy, who's name I forget, lost his vision when he was really young and 20+ years later he had an operation done on his eyes that had less then a 100% chance of being affective, and he can now see. But you might say that it was technology, not God. God has given us the people He blessed with intelligence to create such wonderful technology and develop such cures.

Then there is the Grape Cure. I don't know if this really works, but apparently someone got rid of their cancer by fasting for three days and then eating a certain amount of grapes daily, just living on grapes for X amount of time. When finished, her cancer was gone. Maybe it was the grapes, or maybe it was God using the grapes as a tool to get through to her. You never know, maybe it's all a scam and she lied. But that's why Faith is what it is. The belief in something is what makes it real.

I don't know why some people live and are blessed with cures while other people die. That a sinister villain will be spared and a saint killed. It's life and we cannot decide who lives and dies. Life would not be life if people did not die, did not suffer, and did not face war and natural disaster. What would life be worth living for if the cure and the answer was always right there? What would there be to strive for if you had it all at your fingertips? There would be no amazing people that work every day of their life very hard just to get by. The joy of earning your first paycheck and getting over the flu would not exist if we all had a substantial amount of money and a life without illness. Though it may be hard, you can't just look at the bad and the death. Dieing is just a small part of a mortal life. Think to that close friend's life. What joys does that life hold, the memories of growing up, making friends, working hard, and simply living?

The life around you, the trees, the plants, the water, and even the fire that burns things down is all a precious part of this world people take for granted.

"Do not mourn over the death of a great man, but be glad you ever knew such a man." Er, something like that. Perhaps my memory is a little off. Good luck and never lose Faith, never lose God, and even if you lose your way, know that God's love will always be there, whether you want it or not... your stuck with it.

-Fighting for Him

 

[artjack]

it could be worse,or someone else is equaly as poor, you are quite happy if you knew, thank god for what you have today,what do the birds of the air have more than you? there is no end to wanting more,

 

[w00dy]

we all die my friend, its not just the concern of the terminally ill. and that in part is what jesus dying was all about, if the lord would have said 'no, i dont want this cup, this drink of personal suffering, whats this faith malarky all about? sounds a bit suspect to me, etc, etc' (yes i know thats a massive blasphamy, forgive me please) then how could he be worth this life, our lives that he created. we would be nothing more than casual pets for him to look apon, throw away playthings that could rightiously accuse him, from our account of life, of at the very least a blatant distancing himself from his own very works and saying that he doesnt care because he doesnt know what it feels like to be a man, on the day of judgement. (many, many of the kind the lord seeks, would be headed in the wrong direction if that were true, me thinks). even if you dont believe that jesus is the lord in the flesh and son father and holy ghost are seperarte entities (or what ever). then 'god' knows exactly what jesus felt, and has lifted him to an equal place. and coz hes about and taking responseability for who we should listen to he couldnt help but help (miracles, hope faith blessings and better lives for others.) so much so, i would hazzard a guess that, though he (jesus) gives freewill to everyone else, he willingly denied himself (knowing where that path would lead him) locking himself into the position of servant for all mankind

i can see your upset about your mum. it is no doubt getting you to question a lot in and of life in general. i think my advice to you would be, lean on the lord, let his strenght be your crutch. dont be too hard on yourself for asking questions though, for christ has all the answers, and to teach something tomorrow he may have to open your mind to the possibility of other options in the today. well thats what i think.

maybe people feel pain in this, often cold and ruthless world we inhabit, so that those in the now will strive for a better place for our children, (im not talking politics, im talking my father wanting a better life than his for me.) the great push forward, from learning right from wrong and leaving eden. personally there has only been the lord who has conviced me that his ideals work (im not claiming 'the lord sayath unto me' im claiming to observe and interact.

 

[dodolah]

As I grow older and more educated, I am learning to think for myself and question the validity of thoughts I hold to be true.

One of them is faith. I cannot say that I am the same believer who grew up in the church, who accepted the bible as whole truth as I once did. And no, I am not renouncing my faith, but I am questioning.

What does God say about the helpless caught up in the daily affairs of life? Those who have worked all their lives just to make a living? How does one see life as a gift if one cannot enjoy the fruits of it?

A good family friend of ours is dying with prostate cancer. He has no insurance and cannot afford treatment. Doctors told him that he is at the stage where accepting his death peacefully is the only alternative. My mother was also diagnosed with breast cancer few months ago. Fortunately for her, she had a friend who provided medical insurance.

I am not saying that God is at fault for causing cancer. but as long as he is the same God who loves us enough to send his son to die for our sins, why does it seem like he doesn't care? I know the usual response is he does... but to those who are suffering, outcome is the same: they are dying and will most likely die.

God seems so passive. I don't think he is really what people make of him. How can the events of healing and miracles be true? It was written more than 1500 years ago. Do you see dead men rising today? Have you seen an amputee's limb grow back? When was the last time you heard of a supernatural healing of a cancer patient?

I certainly havent, and if you are a person of conscience, you too would agree that it is only a story, a legend. I am desperately trying to help the desperately sick. I want to go on a fast to hear from God and gain favor from him but I fear that I will be let down. I know that I will be letdown, because whether I pray or not, life will go as planned. Some will die and some won't. Does God really care or do people hope that he does?

The problem here is that you see life using your perspective. Thus, it become limited and hopeless compared to the infinite perspective of God.
You approach things using your own logic and assumption that death equals the end of everything.
How can you be so sure that death leads to a horrible fate?

What happened to your faith in life after death?
What if those who left you find solace in God's embrace?
Certainly what Paul said "To die is to gain, and to live is Christ"

If you applied your own grief and focus using the Lord's p.o.v you will find that He is just, kind, and merciful.
Death is not terrible for we know that God will embrace us in eternal life free from pain and suffering of sins.

Life to me is just a preparation for the eternal life in future.
Just like a fetus in the body of a woman. It grows and when the time come a life is born.

Your problem here, as do I once in a while, is trying to limit the scope of God. Just because He did not physically raise people from dead does not mean that He does not care.

What do we know?!
In the bible it said to be absent from life is to be united with God.

 

[spr]

Sounds like a trial to me. I feel that way sometimes, maybe alot of the time. I know God has a will, and sometimes even believe that his will will be accomplished even in spite of me.

Other people coming to grips with their death is hard on them, hard on your probably. We are all going to die though. When I die I want to die saying something kjv like "I commend my spirit into thy hands" or something. I think we would all like the die like that.

Really what is sad about dying people is not that they are dying, but that they are still seeking out sympathy from this world on their death bed. They are still scared, and want someone to bless them into a good place on the other side. God forbid I ever die like that.

When I die, I am going to be telling all the people who will be missing me, 'Good luck you all, I'm sorry I have to leave you now, but God has better things for me, Peace". I would rather stab myself in the heart and descend into the pits of hell than whine and lay a guilt trip on people before I go.

You said something about worry about the affairs of life, just to make a living, and be miserable. That is exactly right.

These people on their death beds need a wake up call. I would call them a sad sad person, and ask them what it was they wasted their life on to end up in such a beggarly position on their deathbed before all their family and friends.

There is no pity. These people threw their lives away on the irrelevant, and need to come to terms with that or burn in hell. Life is for the living, and so many are dead as they live.

 

[Lisa0315]

God is not passive. God allows suffering and death to continue for a reason.

God could end all suffering today in an instant, but in order to do so, He would have to judge the world. He delays His judgement so that more may receive salvation. It is merciful for Him to delay judgement. It is for the greater good rather than the individual.

Lisa

 

[Violett]

Christ did not come to give us a free ride. Christ came to save our souls. There is something beyond life, and there is no permanent death for those who call to Christ and repent of their sins. I think you may benefit from reading Christ's words in Matthew and see what it means from that perspective. We will be able to see our loved ones once again. These were promises that Christ made so that we may have hope. Without hope, we are a temporary flit on the scope of time. There is more to life than this.

 

[Violett]

To answer a few more of your questions:

1) Christ performed healings to prove he was God.
2) Christ made the dead rise to prove the resurrection was true.
3) Christ performed many miracles, such as walking on water, to prove he was not of this world, yet he was still a man, that God now had become part of our human family.
4) Christ brought the Church to us and promised "the gates of hell would not prevail" against it.
5) The Church is Christ with us.

 

[restore]

We live in a new kingdom . death is not the final destiny anymore.

 

[Treasurer]

Sin is often viewed as a trail to death. But consider this, from the moment of conception- the child is destined for death and grave. This is the reality of this world.

There are many roads which lead to destruction, but destruction is going to happen. You are going to die.

Sin happens because death is present in this world.

God provided us with a way, so death would no longer be the ultimate outcome for us.

When Christ defeated death and grave, it lost its sting. It's like when your body creates antibodies. Then the sting of whatever virus or bacteria would no longer have power over you. You have been innoculated. Jesus is our vaccine over death.

The antibodies he gives us is Kingdom living. When this courses thru us, the sting or virus of death has no power. Death is no longer the ultimate outcome.

However, we too like Christ must die a physical death. Why? Because the bodies we now live in are a part of this world. (Even Jesus' body was flesh and blood- from Mary- so therefore a part of this world). And we too are like Jesus, who is the first of the resurrection fruit.

Jesus said he must go; when he was talking to his disciples-about his crucifixion. Because that was the only way for us to be saved, and for him to give to us his Holy Spirit (which is our vaccine from death). (Disclaimer, lol, I dont know all that much about virus, and so on. This is just my opinions from a lay persons point of view).

Here is what Romans says about the spirit:

Father, dear Father. For his Holy Spirit speaks to us deep in our hearts and tells us that we are God's children. And since we are his children we will share his treasures- for everything God gives to his Son, Christ, is ours, too. But if we are to share his glory, we must also share his suffering.

Yet what we suffer now is nothing compared to the glory he will give us later. For all creation is waiting eagerly for that future day when God will reveal who his children really are. Against its will, everything on earth was subject to God's curse. All creation anticipates the day when it will join God's children in glorious freedom from death and decay.

For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to present time. And even we Christians, although we have the Holy Spirit within us, as a foretaste of future glory, also groan to be released from pain and suffering.

We, too, wait anxiously for that day when God will give us our full rights as his children, including the new bodies he has promised us. Now that we are saved, we eagerly look forward to this freedom. For if you already have something, you dont need to hope for it. But if we look forward to something we dont yet have, we must wait patiently and confidently.

And the Holy Spirit helps us in our distress. For we dont even know what we should pray for, nor how we should pray. But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words. And the Father who knows all hearts knows what the Spirit is saying, for the Spirit pleads for us believers in harmony with God's own will.

And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them. For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn with many brothers and sisters.

And having chosen them, he called them to come to him. And he gave them right standing with himself, and he promised them his glory...(keep reading chapter 8)



So then, Christ died and Christ suffered. (He didnt stay in the grave-due to death. And he didnt continue to suffer after death. He was the first to overcome death and grave, and suffering).

One of the reasons I see for the miracles, signs and wonders Jesus performed were so that people might believe. He resurrected the dead, so that people would know he is the resurrection and life.

He healed the sick and disformed, so that we would know he is Lord of the Sabbath. That death and decay, thru Christ, no longer are our end result. That in fact, we will be made new.

When he cast out demons, it was to show us that the unseen realm no longer had any power over us, thru him. The very angelic realm that caused us to eat of death in the first place, that held a death grip on us, thru Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior- Praise God they dont control us any longer.

Jesus defeated everything- that has a hold on us. God's power is greater than any power. And he gave that power to us (thru his Son Jesus Christ)!

(I believe the reason we dont see people being raised from the dead, casting out of demons, or healing of the sick and lame. Is not because of Jesus. It is because of the condition of mans hearts- his secret motives.

If we are pure of heart, and filled with the same love Jesus has for his children, then we too can do all that Jesus did, and as Jesus said, greater things still.

Jesus doesnt have to change, WE DO!).

So, know this: the arrangements have already been made for all of us. Yes, this body will suffer and die. But because we are brothers and sister in Christ Jesus, we dont stay in the grave. We will be as he is. (And as he promised, all things will be made new).

Hold firm to what you know. It, to you, will be a strong fortress in times of trouble.

God BLess.

 

[UCLA]

just to give you guys the update, our family friend suffering prostate cancer is not really suffering from prostate cancer. It turns out he was preparing for his suicide. He lost his job and his wife wants to split. The man feels completely stripped and deprived of dignity. People around him are trying to convince him that life consists of bigger things than our immediate problems. I recommended him to watch 300. This movie changed my life, and hopefully will impact his.

By the way, some of the icons people have are really funny.

 

[Lisa0315]

just to give you guys the update, our family friend suffering prostate cancer is not really suffering from prostate cancer. It turns out he was preparing for his suicide. He lost his job and his wife wants to split. The man feels completely stripped and deprived of dignity. People around him are trying to convince him that life consists of bigger things than our immediate problems. I recommended him to watch 300. This movie changed my life, and hopefully will impact his.

By the way, some of the icons people have are really funny.

How did the movie change your life? Where are you with God right now? How is your faith?

Lisa

 

[aramispxxvi]

To borrow from fightingforhim,
"The belief in something is what makes it real."
I believe that it is the other way around that we believe because it is real. We believe in God, Our Almighty and Merciful Father and that belief does not make Him real because His reality is not based on whether or not we believe in Him. On the otherhand what would happen if He ever stopped believing in us?

That being said, UCLA I was in your position to a degree a few years ago. It was at a dark point in my life when I did not know whether I was going to have my job for much longer, I did not trust God, or Jesus, or the Holy Spirit. I was heavily into pornography especially on the 'Net, I cheated, I lied, I was angry most of the time I had failed relationships one right after the other, was easily manipulated by the girls and women in my life since I was always seeking what I could not find and I was even suicidal.
It was so difficult for me to believe that a loving god who only wanted us to love Him would allow me to feel so horrible when all I wanted to do was not be poor, find a woman whom I could love and be loved by, and raise a family and therefore, be happy. But all the time that I was searching, any time that I went to church or prayed at all I did not have my whole heart in it; I was just going through the motions and paying lip service. I even went so far as to say that I would sell my soul if I could live a happy life ... thankfully I never got the offer.
Then a few months later I met my beloved in and things began to change; slowly at first ... I started to trust just a little, and chose to come back to the fold rather than stay a lost little lamb in the midst of a pack of ravenous wolves within a den of vipers and scorpions. I went to church that day not to be with God but to see my on again off again girlfriend sing in the praise and worship band of a LIFETEEN Mass. I was introduced to my bride that night and I heard the cliche fireworks and bells go off in my head. This was only the beginning of God's unconditional love manifesting itself to me in the way that I could grasp it. I have found that since I am so dense, God often has to lovingly smack me over the head with a ballpean hammer in order for me to get the message.
Long story short, Our Heavenly Father has shown His great love to me in many ways: the miracle of reconcilliation with my earthly father, whom now I can refer to as Dad without the word tasting like poison on my tongue, the fact that when I was diagnosed with cancer last April, we caught it at a point where it seems to have been isolated; I go back to the Dr. on 3/23 -- Please pray for me, the fact that when my beloved and I moved with our daughter who will be 2 on April 2nd to Rock Hill without any job and the day we closed on our house I was offered the teaching position that I hold at the present. You asked why don't we see miracles? Just look around you and see all that Our Loving God has given us ...
I know it is difficult to watch a good friend go especially if they are given over to suffering but think about how the Disciples felt, how Our Blessed Mother felt, watching Jesus on the cross while He took upon the sins of the whole world and died in His humanity. The insurance that we all have eternal life is right there. That doesn't mean that we don't have to cooperate with the Holy Spirit so that God's will be done, it just means that no matter what we go through in life we are not alone, and not unloved. God tests us in the fire of His love and allows everything to happen because He loves us so much that He will not take away our free will to make choices. If you choose to believe, know that your faith will be tested. Look at Job, and see what God wants you to see. Allow Him the opportunity to strengthen you through the trials of life so that He can use you as He sees fit. Remember Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane when He in His humanity prayed so hard that He sweat blood - "... not my will, but Your's be done ..." No matter what, let that statement be upon your heart and your lips especially during the darkest times and you will experience God's unconditional love.
How do I know that what I am saying is true; because these are not my words but His, to you.
God Bless You My Brother and all your loved ones as well.

In Christ,
Darrin

 

[Mickey1953]

Part of a quote from UCLA post:

"I certainly havent, and if you are a person of conscience, you too would agree that it is only a story, a legend. I am desperately trying to help the desperately sick. I want to go on a fast to hear from God and gain favor from him but I fear that I will be let down. I know that I will be letdown, because whether I pray or not, life will go as planned. Some will die and some won't. Does God really care or do people hope that he does? "

I have posted this before on other threads; so I hope I am not in error for sharing this more than twice......It is a picture taken and shared by a family from my church, suffering from the loss of their son from suicide a few months ago.... It also was witnessed - down the road from them - from builders on a church roof.
I am not saying to anyone to believe in God because of this, I am saying when I look at this picture I see God.....

When I went to a funeral of another young man that took his life the other night.... I saw God's love and grace through the family..... my daughter was suffering because she was a friend of his.... and felt she should have done something..... she saw God's love through this family who took the time to help her understand what had happened..... and had the vision and the grace of God to see her need and her sorrow above their own.... What a witness to a young, hurting 21 year old young lady, my daughter, who had never been touched by such a sad experience before.....

God is the only way they could sustain such a painful thing....
Their words......
I simply wanted to share and respond to the first posting....

A believer In Jesus Christ,
Mickey