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Thanks, I'm interested in stuff like this. I think radiometric dating is the biggest stumbling block to a wide acceptance of YEC.
Unwilling to challenge the data openly, they erased the report from public view without a word to the authors or even to the AOGS officers, until after an investigation. It won’t be restored.”[/COLOR][/FONT]
It's sad that "objectivity" is no longer a major part of science, at least in this case.
No. I left the young earth creationist camp after many years as a speaker/author/debater because there was a HUGE volume of contrary evid....<snip>
Thanks, I'm interested in stuff like this. I think radiometric dating is the biggest stumbling block to a wide acceptance of YEC.
It's sad that "objectivity" is no longer a major part of science, at least in this case.
Illogical inference. Makes no sense.
Conference abstracts are like any other peer-reviewed publishing situation. The publisher/editor is not "censoring" something which fails to meet the standards of the publication and organization.
It is not entirely rare for something to be removed, especially when shoddy procedures, questionable data, or errors are identified or even strongly suspected. If an investigation validates them, a paper or article can always be restored. Those who say that removal of an abstract is proof of a conspiracy theory or something sinister are betraying their own unfamiliarity with academia and publishing. (I recall one instance where a paper which had seven authors was removed from a conference proceedings because ONE of the authors decided the paper was flawed and he did NOT want the paper to reflect on his career. He pointed out his own flaws to the conference committee and editor and they agreed to remove the paper, despite the protest of the other six authors. That is just one example.)If the paper and research indeed has merit, it will be published by another journal or conference if not this one. Good research rarely gets ignored for long. I'm tired of these "conspiracy stories", especially when they usually get passed around by people with NO EXPERIENCE in the academic world.Frankly, a lot more mediocre research would be better off rejected for publication until it is better executed and prepared. I've sat through a number of conference papers which needed a lot more work on them before presentation. Sometimes the underlying research may have been sound but the published result is poorly done--and therefore leaves the reader with too many questions. Ambiguities for example should NOT be prominent in a final published product. If the reader is left with as many questions as answers as to how the research was carried out, the paper should NOT yet have been published. And sometimes recognizing that means that a paper already posted online is removed. This is often done to the BENEFIT of the scholars involved. Nobody benefits when sloppy work is published---especially not the authors.I too think the data as presented sounds like statistical noise. The curve is asymptotic!
.....If methods are wrong, they'll give wrong answers. It seems odd to suggest that they'll happen to all give the same "wrong" answer, again and again over hundreds of samples and thousands of tests. Note that this includes tests based on all kinds of very different "clocks". Only some are radioactive - others are based on tree growth, spring thaws, solar vibrations, coral growth, and others. Yet, they all just "happen" to confirm each other? Why, if not that it's because they are all actually measuring the elapsed time?
Unless there's an underpinning wrong premise they all share.
....Again, for all these to agree, each assumption would have to be altered in precisely the way needed to make the dates just happen to line up across all these (and more) methods. I don't see an underlying premise that affects them all the same way, aside from Last Thursdayism, do you?
Papias
I would that that supernatural events like this would affect all of the above. .... it's hard for me to understand how they couldn't have been.
Cal wrote:
These all could have been changed by supernatural events. That's not the point. The point is that they would have had to have been changed in precise, unlikely ways to get all the different methods to agree on the same old ages.
]Cal, I’m not disputing that the evidence that each of these is based on could be changed supernaturally. If a supernatrural event changed the material of the rocks, fossils, etc, in a way (maybe doubling the amount of radioactivity in it) that messed up the dating method (say, method #1, based on radioactive decay), then that rock or fossil’s measured “age” would be thrown off to some random, “wrong” age, when tested by method #1, right? ...
But it would seem that a broad event would indeed affect a broad number of things.
If a mechanism God used affected dating method A, why would it not affect dating method B? If the event was universal affecting the whole earth, why wouldn't it affect the whole earth? Why would it be selective.
Having said all that I admit I can't refute your point. I just don't have the technical knowledge to build on my premise. I was hoping you could put a hypothetical scenario for me just for kicks.
That's exactly my point. Because it would have affected many properties, and because the methods all work differently, it would have been very unlikely to throw them off to the same "wrong" age. ...
I'm not getting the why part of this yet.
If something is broad in scope so as to affect the entire world, why is it unlikely it would affect everything in the world?
Papias, can you give me an example of a mechanism that God may have used that could throw off one of these dating methods, but leave the rest intact?
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