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Different story in the bible (Question?)

barbara van loo

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Hi christians,

I read the story of the tomb in the bible about Jesus.. But it seems to me that there is a different story.

In matthew 28:1-6 states, " And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified""

(So here it was a angel)

Take a look at luc 24:

And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

(But here it was 2 men)

And take a look to Mark 16:5-6
And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted. And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.

(Here it was one young men)

How is this possible have anybody see this?

What's the explanation for it.

Greetings,
barbara
 
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barbara van loo

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But there is talking about a Angel not about Angels. And is it one men or 2 men that say the message.

I would assume that the men were angels. Heck, I'd say for sure that the men were angels- it's unlikely to be a human delivering such a message.
 
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But there is talking about a Angel not about Angels. And is it one men or 2 men that say the message.

Depends which account you choose to believe. I always prefer Luke to Matthew, (out of nothing but personal choice), so I'd say that the account of two men in white clothes (ie angels) was correct. But, you choose. It really doesn't matter- it's hardly a contentious issue within Christian theology.
 
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barbara van loo

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Make a choice?

But one of both have it wrong then.

So then the bible have a contradiction. How can a book that say 2 different things in it, be the word of God. That's not possible.

If someone find one contradiction in a book that means it's not the Word of God.

So Christians say that the bible is not the word of God and that there a contradictions in it, cause you say you must choice one?


Depends which account you choose to believe. I always prefer Luke to Matthew, (out of nothing but personal choice), so I'd say that the account of two men in white clothes (ie angels) was correct. But, you choose. It really doesn't matter- it's hardly a contentious issue within Christian theology.
 
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razeontherock

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Nope, not at all. There has been massive amounts of research done to see how people react to highly stressful things. No two people see the same thing, EVER.

If all the Gospel accounts agreed on everything, it would be a sure sign of fraud, either upon original writing, or later editing. Instead what we have is people doing their best, right from the beginning, and preserving it faithfully.

So it's a simple matter of different people's point of view. It's quite possible all the accounts are correct, just witnessing different things. It's only our need for closure that pretends they must all be speaking about the exact same moment.

The point here is Jesus died, was buried, and rose again, as proclaimed by both angels and men. And women! They were in fact the first preachers.
 
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But one of both have it wrong then.

Indeed.

So then the bible have a contradiction. How can a book that say 2 different things in it, be the word of God. That's not possible.
Anything is possible for God.


If someone find one contradiction in a book that means it's not the Word of God.

By that reasoning, any book that doesn't have a contradiction in it is the word of God. Do you regard Harry Potter as the word of God?
So Christians say that the bible is not the word of God and that there a contradictions in it, cause you say you must choice one?

Some Christians say it's the Word of God- I don't. I see it as the inspired writings and accounts of divine events.
 
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barbara van loo

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You say that when all the Gospels accounts are agreed on everything that it is fraud, so there must be a difference. The word of God is one message, and not a couple of messages right? God knows how everything was gone. If the bible is Gods word, then there must be one message and every gospel must be the same. Cause God sees everything and don't make different story's, God can not say in one gospel there is one angel ,and in the other gospel there are 2 angels. God now how mutch angels there was, he know and see everything.

Matthew 28:2 says: And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

And in other gospel there are 2 angels.

If it are God his words then he must now of there was 1 or 2 angels.
And put in the bible the same. Not 2 different things..

Then is was the words of the people who the gospels write and not that of God.. on this way.


Nope, not at all. There has been massive amounts of research done to see how people react to highly stressful things. No two people see the same thing, EVER.

If all the Gospel accounts agreed on everything, it would be a sure sign of fraud, either upon original writing, or later editing. Instead what we have is people doing their best, right from the beginning, and preserving it faithfully.

So it's a simple matter of different people's point of view. It's quite possible all the accounts are correct, just witnessing different things. It's only our need for closure that pretends they must all be speaking about the exact same moment.

The point here is Jesus died, was buried, and rose again, as proclaimed by both angels and men. And women! They were in fact the first preachers.
 
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barbara van loo

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No harry potter is not the word of God ofcourse not.
Not every book with no contraditions is the word of God.
But if someone say's this is the book of God, but you find contradictions in it, then it's not the word of God.

Ok so you believed in a book who people write. How you know what's the truth then, maybe all the things what is say in the bible then are inspired, but not the truth, when the book says Jesus is rosen of the death and crucified, how you know that's true, if there are other errors in the book, how you know that ,that story is true then. Then you know not what's true and what's not true.

Indeed.


Anything is possible for God.




By that reasoning, any book that doesn't have a contradiction in it is the word of God. Do you regard Harry Potter as the word of God?


Some Christians say it's the Word of God- I don't. I see it as the inspired writings and accounts of divine events.
 
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But if someone say's this is the book of God, but you find contradictions in it, then it's not the word of God.

There are no set in stone criteria for what make a book of God genuine. In other words, there's no universal definition for what the 'word of God' would or would not encompass. Therefore, it's perfectly possible the word of God could indeed have contradictions in it.

Ok so you believed in a book who people write. How you know what's the truth then, maybe all the things what is say in the bible then are inspired, but not the truth, when the book says Jesus is rosen of the death and crucified, how you know that's true, if there are other errors in the book, how you know that ,that story is true then. Then you know not what's true and what's not true.

I don't know it's true, at least not in the sense that I know of my own existence- but I know it's what I believe is true. Also, if the events in the Bible were inspired, that means that they are based on true or metaphysical events that men documented in relation to God. It wasn't written by people who had no clue of God- rather, it was written by people who had a relationship with God and were so inspired to write down aspects of who God is and what He has done.
 
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salida

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The bible doesn't have contradictions in it. It is the word of God because of its attributes.

Internal Evidence (prophesies confirmed within bible)
Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen 49:10 - Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Lukes time period 60-70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5 - Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60 - 70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14 - Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60 - 70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 - four kingdoms are described in the interpretation of a dream of
Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek - Daniel 8:21, 10:20/and the fourth
great kingdom to follow- part iron and clay-which is the Roman Empire. During this empire Christ came and his church was established.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Historical Accuracy
The bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events hundreds of years ago and has not
been proven incorrect in any.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents):
New Testament starts - at 25 years between original and first surviving copies
Homer - starts at 500 years
Demosthenes - at 1400 years
Plato - at 1200 years
Caesar - at 1000 years
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of Manuscript Copies-New Testament - 5,686/Homer - 643/Demosthenes - 200/
Plato - 7/Caesar -10
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Consistency/Written by God
Written by at least 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years and has no internal inconsistencies.
It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Timothy 3:16-17. No other religious book makes such claim.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
External Evidences (prophesies outside bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never built again.
Nineveh - Nahum 1:10, 3:7,15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon - Isaiah 13:1-22
Tyre - Ezekiel 26:1-28
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bible before Science- He hangs the earth on nothing-Job 26:7/Earth is a sphere-Isaiah 40:22
Air has weight-Job 28:25/Gravity-Job 26:7, Job 38:31-33/Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago; some scholars think 3000 years ago)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Documents that Prove Bible is True
Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles
Archeological Finds
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel
 
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salida

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peaceful soul

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Mat 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Mat 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
Mat 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
Mat 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
Mat 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
Mat 28:7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
Mat 28:8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.

** The angel of the Lord rolled back the stone and sat upon it and urged the women (Mary Magdalene and the other Mary) to go inside and see that there was no body in the tomb.

================

Luk 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
Luk 23:55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Luk 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
Luk 24:2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
Luk 24:3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
Luk 24:4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:
Luk 24:5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?
Luk 24:6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
Luk 24:7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
Luk 24:8 And they remembered his words,
Luk 24:9 And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.
Luk 24:10 It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.

** The women (which came with him from Galilee) along with others found the stone already removed from the tomb. They entered and didn't find the body. As they were standing perplexed, 2 men in shining garments stood by them.

==============

Mar 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
Mar 16:3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
Mar 16:4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
Mar 16:5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
Mar 16:6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
Mar 16:7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.
Mar 16:8 And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.
Mar 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Mar 16:10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
Mar 16:11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.

** Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome came to the tomb to only see the stone already removed. They entered into the tomb and saw a young man sitting on the right side clothed in a long white garment.

===============

The main observation to make is to note that all three accounts have different versions which should not be simply dismissed as contradictions since these are three different observations and should have differences in explanations thereof. It is most likely that each person gave some different details without there being a contradiction. Let me explain.

Matthew only mentions an earthquake. Would that mean that Mark and Luke were wrong in their accounts because they didn't mention it? No! Not at all since varying details doesn't make a contradiction unless those details somehow contradict other information given. So, let's see if this is the case. All three accounts agree that the stone was removed from the tomb and that the women went inside to verify that the body wasn't there. Now here comes the most important parts in this discussion--the differences in what was seen.

Luke presents 2 men while Matthew-0nly one angel and Mark says a man. Are these contradictions? Not necessarily, since the angels could have appeared as men. If there were in fact 2 angels, both could have said different things and presented themselves in different places. What I mean is this: Matthew presented one angel, but notice this angel is said to have sat on a stone outside of the tomb when he spoke. There is no indication that the angel went inside. This could mean that this particular angel was not with the other angel at this point, which could clear the contradiction. The two men in Luke were only said to have been inside the tomb. It is possible at that point that these two men may have stated different things so that in Mark, only one of them was quoted at a different time. Therefore the two could have spoken together and then at least one of the spoke separately to give the two different accounts. This is all reasonable, but I am also inclined to believe that the angel in Matthew was not a man which is supported by the fact that he spoke outside and was responsible for removing the stone and didn't go inside and appear with the two men or was manifested as a man. Notice that the men were only reported as being inside the tomb; so, I contend that there were probably two men and they spoke together and then at least one of them spoke apart from the other, thus the differences in Mark and Luke. Whatever combination of things that could have happened, I just presented plausible explanations for the differences in the three accounts that are very reasonable if understood in context of discussion.
 
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peaceful soul

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There are no set in stone criteria for what make a book of God genuine. In other words, there's no universal definition for what the 'word of God' would or would not encompass. Therefore, it's perfectly possible the word of God could indeed have contradictions in it.

This doesn't make sense we believe that there are no contradictions with the text. There were certain standards used to determine the cannon. Most books that we accept as the standard 66 books were already in circulation and used by the Church with no dispute of their authority. There were a few (perhaps 6) books that were not unanimously accepted and were thus disputed but were later included by using certain tests. Here is a link that will help to explain.

How Many Books Are in the Bible? - The Discovery of Canonicity
 
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razeontherock

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Not to distract from the patience Peaceful Soul has shown, but this is also weak:

when the book says Jesus is rosen of the death and crucified, how you know that's true.

We don't rely on any book to know that's true! Head knowledge falls flat on it's face, it's first hand experience that matters in the Christian Faith. And that experience begins with the Word of G-d, as Peaceful Soul has been elaborating for you.
 
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seashale76

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Make a choice?

But one of both have it wrong then.

So then the bible have a contradiction. How can a book that say 2 different things in it, be the word of God. That's not possible.

If someone find one contradiction in a book that means it's not the Word of God.

So Christians say that the bible is not the word of God and that there a contradictions in it, cause you say you must choice one?

It isn't a contradiction. It is witness testimony. Unlike your holy book, ours has multiple accounts written by various people which are all shown because they point to the truth of Christ. You don't have such a thing. I'd worry about the lack of witnesses for your own holy book, if I were you. Who was around to witness your Prophet Mohammad and testify that his story regarding the Quran is true? I've never heard of such people.
 
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barbara van loo

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A example, revelation of Allaah was bestowed upon the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). The Angel of Revelation, Jibreel (Gabriel), who is recognized by all the People of the Book [Jews and Christians], came to him, and when he received revelation, there were unusual effects on him that indicated the intensity of the effort involved in receiving the Message of Allaah from Jibreel, upon whom be peace. His Companions witnessed this when he received Revelation, and they believed that the revelation was something that came from an outside source and was beyond his control; it came to him from (Allaah), the Wise and Praiseworthy.

And have you ever see a book who says in this book there are no errors. The Quran says it.

4 : 82. Do they not then consider the Qur'an carefully Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely, have found therein contradictions in abundance).

"And if you all are in doubt about what I have revealed to My servant, bring a single soorah (Chapter) like it, and call your witnesses besides Allaah if you are truthful." [Soorah al-Baqarah (2):23]



It isn't a contradiction. It is witness testimony. Unlike your holy book, ours has multiple accounts written by various people which are all shown because they point to the truth of Christ. You don't have such a thing. I'd worry about the lack of witnesses for your own holy book, if I were you. Who was around to witness your Prophet Mohammad and testify that his story regarding the Quran is true? I've never heard of such people.
 
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