Different standards of organization

[LovebirdsFlying]

First, please understand, I'm not here to rag on my husband. He's a good man, and we have a wonderful marriage. This is a minor frustration I'd like tips for how to cope with, and actually it's a pretty common one.

What's the best way to deal with it when one person in a family (me) likes to have things arranged in categories, each in its own designated place, and the entire rest of the crew thinks as long as it's in a drawer, or behind a closet door, it's put away?

Do it myself, would seem like a logical solution, but I have physical disabilities. Sometimes washing, drying, and putting away the laundry is too much for me. Then hubby has to do it, whereupon I later discover my slacks, blouses, dresses, jackets, and sleepwear mixed in together in my half of the closet. He simply hangs it all up on the rod without taking note of what he's putting where. I like to keep the different types of garments separated, so I can see what's what. I've tried telling him I like to hang dresses with dresses, slacks with slacks, etc., and that I keep my nightgown and bathrobe on a hook at the side of the closet, not on a hanger mixed in with my day clothes. He seems unable to grasp the concept. Yet he can.... because he keeps his work uniforms separated from the rest of his clothing.

It's the same way with the pantry. Originally I bought two plastic dish pans, intending for one to hold potatoes, and the other to hold onions. Now they're so full of random bags of beans and seasonings, there's no place to put the potatoes or the onions. Get more dish pans, might work for that problem, if they won't ALL end up full of random things, and we can put potatoes in this one, onions in that one, beans in the other one, etc.

I am literally the only one in the household who cares what goes where, once it's inside a drawer or closet. But I really do care, so I don't think it's going to be helpful to tell me not to. I mean, you go to the grocery store, and you're not going to find the chicken wings and the ketchup and the green beans and the bread all haphazardly on any old shelf, because then how are you going to know where to find what you need? How can I communicate this to the rest of my family?

 

[tall73]

First, please understand, I'm not here to rag on my husband. He's a good man, and we have a wonderful marriage. This is a minor frustration I'd like tips for how to cope with, and actually it's a pretty common one.

What's the best way to deal with it when one person in a family (me) likes to have things arranged in categories, each in its own designated place, and the entire rest of the crew thinks as long as it's in a drawer, or behind a closet door, it's put away?

Do it myself, would seem like a logical solution, but I have physical disabilities. Sometimes washing, drying, and putting away the laundry is too much for me. Then hubby has to do it, whereupon I later discover my slacks, blouses, dresses, jackets, and sleepwear mixed in together in my half of the closet. He simply hangs it all up on the rod without taking note of what he's putting where. I like to keep the different types of garments separated, so I can see what's what. I've tried telling him I like to hang dresses with dresses, slacks with slacks, etc., and that I keep my nightgown and bathrobe on a hook at the side of the closet, not on a hanger mixed in with my day clothes. He seems unable to grasp the concept. Yet he can.... because he keeps his work uniforms separated from the rest of his clothing.

It's the same way with the pantry. Originally I bought two plastic dish pans, intending for one to hold potatoes, and the other to hold onions. Now they're so full of random bags of beans and seasonings, there's no place to put the potatoes or the onions. Get more dish pans, might work for that problem, if they won't ALL end up full of random things, and we can put potatoes in this one, onions in that one, beans in the other one, etc.

I am literally the only one in the household who cares what goes where, once it's inside a drawer or closet. But I really do care, so I don't think it's going to be helpful to tell me not to. I mean, you go to the grocery store, and you're not going to find the chicken wings and the ketchup and the green beans and the bread all haphazardly on any old shelf, because then how are you going to know where to find what you need? How can I communicate this to the rest of my family?

Just to clarify, it sounds like you are OK (not thrilled) with them doing this with their own clothes. You would just like your husband not to do it with your clothes?

It sounds like there are children also, do they help, and how old are they?

 

[seeingeyes]

First, please understand, I'm not here to rag on my husband. He's a good man, and we have a wonderful marriage. This is a minor frustration I'd like tips for how to cope with, and actually it's a pretty common one.

What's the best way to deal with it when one person in a family (me) likes to have things arranged in categories, each in its own designated place, and the entire rest of the crew thinks as long as it's in a drawer, or behind a closet door, it's put away?

Do it myself, would seem like a logical solution, but I have physical disabilities. Sometimes washing, drying, and putting away the laundry is too much for me. Then hubby has to do it, whereupon I later discover my slacks, blouses, dresses, jackets, and sleepwear mixed in together in my half of the closet. He simply hangs it all up on the rod without taking note of what he's putting where. I like to keep the different types of garments separated, so I can see what's what. I've tried telling him I like to hang dresses with dresses, slacks with slacks, etc., and that I keep my nightgown and bathrobe on a hook at the side of the closet, not on a hanger mixed in with my day clothes. He seems unable to grasp the concept. Yet he can.... because he keeps his work uniforms separated from the rest of his clothing.

It's the same way with the pantry. Originally I bought two plastic dish pans, intending for one to hold potatoes, and the other to hold onions. Now they're so full of random bags of beans and seasonings, there's no place to put the potatoes or the onions. Get more dish pans, might work for that problem, if they won't ALL end up full of random things, and we can put potatoes in this one, onions in that one, beans in the other one, etc.

I am literally the only one in the household who cares what goes where, once it's inside a drawer or closet. But I really do care, so I don't think it's going to be helpful to tell me not to. I mean, you go to the grocery store, and you're not going to find the chicken wings and the ketchup and the green beans and the bread all haphazardly on any old shelf, because then how are you going to know where to find what you need? How can I communicate this to the rest of my family?

My mother used to label everything. I mean everything. lol

Pick up some labels and a sharpie, and put labels on your closet bar and in the pantry. Have the kids help you.

Scream bloody murder every time one of your labels is ignored.

Just so you know, this system did not make me a neat-nik myself. I'm one of those who is happy to close the door or close the drawer. As long as I can clearly see everything in the cabinet when I open it, I don't care too much if one bag of beans is on the bottom shelf and one is at the top. I reorganize every month or so and it's perfect for three days, and then the canned goods end up mysteriously mingling with the boxed goods again. Rinse and repeat.

However, when I go to my mother's house, and I help her put groceries or dishes or laundry away, everything goes exactly in it's place. Always. Because I know it's important to her. But that was never the case until after I was grown and out of her house.

For the time being, you'll have to be a bit of a tyrant. Later on it will be easier.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Right, what he does with his half of the closet is his business. If I'm putting away laundry, I will hang his shirts here and his jeans there, but if he's doing it himself, I don't care, as long as I don't have to look at it. As for my 19-year-old nephew who has moved in with us, I don't even look in his room most of the time. As long as there aren't problems that the department of health would have something to say about, it's his business. It was the same when my 27-year-old daughter, who recently found her own apartment and moved out, occupied that room.

Hubby is waking up now. It's noonish on his day off, but he works evenings, so he didn't sleep as late as it sounds. I'm doing the laundry today. I started talking with him about it as I was putting away the first load, and he was still in bed but awake. I mentioned the plastic dish pans being intended for potatoes and onions, but now used for random other items. I also mentioned a problem with the wash cloths, dish cloths, and cleaning rags. They are three separate things for three separate purposes. They are visibly distinct from each other; in other words, they don't look alike. But I frequently find wash cloths, dish cloths, and cleaning rags all tossed in together in the box on the laundry shelf, where only the cleaning rags belong. Dish cloths are supposed to go in the kitchen drawer next to the sink, which is logical because that's where they are used. Wash cloths are supposed to go with the bath towels, which is logical because they are used together.

The problem with housekeeping is, I don't have the strength. Hubby doesn't have the time. And nephew doesn't have the experience. His mother, my sister, is disorganized by nature and always has been. When we shared a bedroom growing up, our parents had the tendency to blame me for the mess because I was the older sister. It was assumed that she was only following my bad example, and she was not held accountable for her own contribution to the mess. Thus she was never taught how to clean and organize, and she couldn't teach her son what she didn't know. This, she will attest to herself. In fact, she has done so. "All those times you got in trouble for our messy room, and you tried to say it was me, and they didn't believe you.... it was me." (I appreciate that very much, on her part. for her.)

I have a lot of trouble communicating what goes where, and why I want it there, without coming off like a drill sergeant. And this dilemma, I made plain to my husband. I told him my goal is to solve the problem, not to get into a fight. Well, nobody's mad right now, and there is no fight going on, so at least there's that.

Labeling might help. I did that in the kitchen. I kept trying to store the mixing bowls in one drawer and the colander strainers in another. But if somebody else emptied the dishwasher, they would stick mixing bowls and strainers willy-nilly in either drawer. It didn't matter which. Out of sight, out of mind. So I designated one drawer for the strainers and one for the bowls, and labeled them. On the bottom, "Bowls here. Strainers in the drawer above." On the top, "Strainers here. Bowls in the drawer below." Also, all of the eating utensils used to be just tossed loose into a drawer, until I bought plastic separators. We've been married 5 1/2 years. I guess it's a gradual process, especially at his age, and for as long as he was alone before we met.

 

[LinkH]

I like to separate slacks from shirts in the closet, too. So I can relate. It wastes time not being able to find stuff when you need it.

You could gently and respectfully ask that he keep things like that organized. You could tell him you would do it if you can, but you aren't able.

 

[Odetta]

It's hard to change a habit in someone who is set in their ways. DH tries to change me all the time, while I've simply given up on him. (Just kidding!)

For real, though, in our house, both DH and I have things we do we wish the other would do differently. We've turned those things into special specific ways we can actively demonstrate love to one another, and we make a big deal of it when we do it. Because frankly, even with the emphasis on "showing love", we're both pretty lazy about changing. So we have to celebrate when it happens. Kind of like praising a kid for what they do right, instead of criticizing what they did wrong.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Someone once told me that if I was going to complain about how someone else cleans, then I better be ready to do it myself. Since then I very seldom complain about how well or poorly someone else cleans. Except for my laundry which... I now do myself.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Sounds like my mom and dad. Shes has a place for everything. But often my dad just kind of puts it in the general area, wrong spot or shoves it wherever. Drives my mom nuts.

For me and my disabilities I have everything in a place for a reason. I forget things easily so my big dresser drawer for example has everything I may need in a day or for going out. Such as wallet, body care stuff, ring, watch, wallet, checkbook, Ipod, dental kit, flashlight, pen, "intimate" stuff....etc. And it does look sorted.

My wife with what time I've spent with her has her way to but its not always the same. Shes rearranging her stuff often. When we are together somewhere when visiting (shes overseas) I tend to leave my suitcases packed . The only things out are travelers pouch that holds my money and stuff. The rest I take out as I need it such as my toothbrush, meds and so on. If I start putting stuff all out when I'm anywhere but home I loose track of things and get overwhelmed.

Thankfully she doens't rearrange my stuff. She understands why I have things the way I do. She does however fold up my clothes nicely (after days my suitcase is a clothing mess lol). But she just puts the fold my clothes and puts them where they were. So weget along well on this subject. Once here in a few weeks she even has her own dressed and closet so it should work fine.

I know when I put away other peoples clothes in the house I put it where they would put it. Pants next to pants, undies with undies, socks with socks...etc. And I fold it how they do. Hopefully with my wife things will be easier and over time we cna sort out any "this goes there" problems that may happen. A couple has to spend years together to get use to the routine of how the other does things. For some one adapts to the others ways. For some they each do their own thing.

I do think in the case of disabilities there should be a bit more consideration from the spouse that is not disabled because when disabled you have things a way for a reason usually.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

We compromise.

He manages the bills, because he's better at it, and because he's technology-challenged, this still involves checkbooks and the US postal service. That means paper. Lots of paper. Which I at LEAST was able to teach him to confine in a box instead of it being spread out all over the tabletop. The box looks ugly--but I'm accumulating pretty fabric to make a quilted cover for it, so it will look decorative sitting on the bedside table.

Gotta go. Appointment.

 

[akmom]

I'm more of a disorganized person. I love a meticulously organized house, but I can't seem to get it to that point. If there was someone with a high standard of organization, who actually communicated exactly where things went, I'd be happy to accommodate it. In my experience, people demand organization but don't really have anything in mind. That's what my parents did. We didn't have enough space, hangers, or anything else to actually organize things, but they expected me to "make it work." My sister did, because she's naturally organized, and sometimes she'd organize my room for me out of pity. And I would keep up on it too. But then my parents (hoarders) would inundate me with a bunch more "things" and I wouldn't be able to fit them into my sister's system. So I'd just give up.

So my opinion is, if you are living with someone with a lower standard of organization but you've given clear directions, they should absolutely try to follow them. But if you're not really clear, then good luck. Some of us just can't play Tetris.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

My mother is something of a hoarder, in that she keeps stuff for sentimental reasons and doesn't like to see anything thrown away, but at the same time, she is naturally organized and gifted at interior design. This made for a lot of problems when I was growing up. She thought she could just tell me, "Go clean your room," and I should be able to do it. Sometimes she'd threaten to throw all my things away, and really, I think she should have done it. My problem was, I couldn't keep track of all that stuff. Once when I did try throwing away stuff I wasn't using, to make it easier for me to keep my room clean, she went through the trash and made me put it all back.

I don't tend to respond to visual stimulation. I actually have *trouble* staying neat and organized, which is exactly why I have to be more careful. And, I cannot accumulate too much clutter. I've got to throw stuff out. If I have too much to keep organized, I get overwhelmed. You don't see a lot of trinkets, nicknacks, and whatnots around my house. Minimalism, I guess you'd call it. The reason is, if I had to move around a bunch of trinkets, nicknacks, and whatnots to dust the table, the table would never get dusted. The reason behind the reason is, since I don't respond to visual stimulation, if there are too many items in the way, I can't easily tell what belongs there from what's out of place. That's when the clutter feeds on itself and reproduces. If I don't keep a fairly tight rein, I'll lose control altogether.

It literally took me decades to overcome this problem, and learn to keep my environment fairly organized. The fact that it could get out of hand so easily is the reason I'm so particular now. It's the same thing as an alcoholic not being able to have just one drink, or else it's off to the races, no matter how long the alcoholic has been sober. I can't be just a little bit sloppy, or the whole place ends up a shipwreck.

 

[akmom]

Wow, you and I have pretty much the same experiences in that department. To my mom, shopping was a hobby, and both my parents were hoarders, so I grew up with a lot of random clutter and no sense of organization. As I result, I'm also pretty minimalist in terms of acquisition. I still struggle to discard things, because it feels so wasteful, but I've gotten a lot better about it. It's a big advantage that I have no compulsion to buy anything I don't absolutely need, but I still struggle to keep organized with the things I do have.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

I subscribe to Don Aslett's philosophy. Never love anything that doesn't love you back. I've learned a lot from both him and Sandra Felton.

What I find the most ironic is the notion that the junk accumulator, in this case my mother, is visually oriented and naturally organized, while I have had to struggle to learn to be organized because I don't process information as well visually. Neither one of us was aware of that, during my childhood. I shudder to recall the conflict we had over me not doing chores well, or being able to keep my room neat. Compound this with the fact that, as mentioned, I took the brunt of the recriminations for the condition of our room, because I was the older sister. It was assumed that my younger sister wasn't responsible, because she was only following my bad example, so I caught the heat and she was allowed to slide.

So, growing up with a messy sister, and then marrying a messy husband (not this one!) all the while having never really been taught organization skills. Since they came naturally to my mother, she didn't realize it could be something anybody would need to be taught. My two brothers have it naturally, and have the same talent for interior design she's got. If they could keep their room looking nice, my mother couldn't figure out why I had trouble with mine. Poor innocent little sister, it's not her fault, because big sister is setting such a bad example, but why is big sister so messy? She must not be trying. She must be just plain old lazy. Maybe she needs that belt across her butt. Again.

Then I married the kind of hoarder you would see on those TV shows. During my first marriage, when the house was always messy because I couldn't keep up with him, I assumed it was just as I'd been told all my life. I was, as my mother would describe it, a "pig." I now realize, even the neatest person in the world would have had trouble coping with him. He doesn't feel obligated to pick up after himself. That's your job, not his, because you're the wife. Consequently, he's going to come in and destroy a room you've spent all day putting in order--and then that evening, he's going to yell at you because the room is messy again, and that means you're not doing your job. He allowed himself to be as careless as he wanted, but he had high demands on me. I'm not at all exaggerating when I say he wouldn't even flush the toilet when he was finished with it. He expected me to come in and do it for him. He would inspect the kitchen after I cleaned it, and if he wasn't satisfied, it didn't matter if I'd already gone to bed. He would wake me up amid much anger, yelling, and profanity, and make me get out of bed to clean it again.

The worst part is, society seemed to agree with him. When company came to the door, I was the one they judged by the mess. I was a "bad" housekeeper. I now wonder if the same thing was going on when I shared a room with my sister. Maybe I was low on organizational skills, and maybe it is difficult for me to keep up with too many trinkets, so maybe I do need minimalist decor. But how much of it was that, and how much was somebody else? Because when I separated from my ex, and lived on my own for the first time in my life, I found that I was actually an excellent housekeeper.

 

[akmom]

It's really great to hear you articulate this. I never heard the term "visually processing information," but I too lacked the ability to organize items in a useful or aesthetic way. I just kind of put them where they fit. I can't blame a sibling, because I had my own room, and my sister's room was well-organized. But I do think my mom inundated me with too many things, and I was taught to be appreciative, no matter how random or useless it was. Then I was expected to be organized, and I'd spend so many hours rearranging in an attempt to "clean" to my mother's standards. But no arrangement appeared "neat" to her, so I too would always be in trouble. Why would I spend hours rearranging my room, without honestly trying to "clean" it? Of course I was trying, but my mother's vision of "organized" wasn't something I could understand at all. If I knew where to put things, I'd gladly do it, but it just isn't natural to me. That's when my sister would sometimes "surprise" me and clean my room when I was gone, and then I just maintained that arrangement. Then my mom would buy us more stuff, often random "trinkets," and I'd shove it wherever it fit. Which apparently was the wrong place! Ah! I don't think she ever realized that I'm simply not organized. Luckily, I do realize the problem now, and so I am very specific and thoughtful about what my children's possessions are, and try to make sure everything has a place, so my children know what to do when they clean. Unfortunately, they seem to be rather like me, and need that direction.

Believe it or not, my husband had the same attitude at the beginning of our marriage, right down to the toilet flushing! Ah! I felt like I spent my entire day following him around, cleaning up after him. It was frustrating, and he was always mad at *me* when the place was messy (because he worked and I didn't). It didn't really dawn on me until I heard someone at my gym describing the exact same problem. Then I thought, "What a waste of time, to go hunting for laundry all around the house, when he could just deposit it into the hamper." I mean, it took me 15 minutes to gather, but it would only take him one minute or less to throw it in the hamper. It takes me 20 minutes to soak a dirty plate, scrape off the food, strain it so the solids go into the trash and the liquids go down the sink (because solids will clog the sink and liquids will leak in the trash). But it takes one minute or less to scrape food into the trash BEFORE it dries onto the plate. After actually considering how much time it took to clean up after him, I started getting strict about basic household courtesy. And he got mad. I told him, "Some wives are relaxed, and they have a messy house. Some wives are anal about house rules, and their homes are spotless. So pick which one you want." After challenging him to think of a single exception among people we knew, he finally gave in. Luckily we had a pastor's wife who was the epitome of hospitality, and I was able to use her as an example of a very hardworking and supportive wife, who nonetheless had strict rules for our pastor's domestic behavior. After all, it only makes sense for the person in charge of the household upkeep to make the household rules!

Thanks for the rant. I'm not an "excellent housekeeper" yet, but I have come a long way on that front!

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

During my first marriage, ladies at church counseled me, for example, "I broke my husband of leaving his clothes on the floor by telling him I would only wash what was in the hamper. After he ran out of clean socks a few times, he started picking them up." My ex made it clear, in his most effective terroristic-threatening tone, that I'd "better not try that" on him.

It just now occurs to me that even this method put the burden on me, suggesting it was my responsibility to train him. In general, I was the one judged by the mess if they came to the door. It was a reflection on me, not on him. We were Seventh-day Adventists at the time, and many a church lady would present me with a copy of "The Adventist Home" as a gift, thinking it would "teach me" how to manage my home better. After all, it was my job.... One lady pulled Ex aside and whispered to him, "You really should speak to your wife about keeping the house cleaner." You can BET he had a lot of fun passing that along to me! They didn't realize I had simply given up. He was making the messes faster than I could clean them. You can try emptying the ocean with a teaspoon, but it will fill up faster than you can work.

My now and forever husband, that wonderful man--after meals, even if I've made it plain that I'm cleaning up, he will still rinse his plate and put it in the dishwasher. He is faithful about putting his clothes in the hamper, and cleaning up after himself in general. He would NEVER leave a mess behind him. He's just not that way.

 

[1watchman]

All of us are different and its alright. We just need to learn how to live with others ---especially in the same house.

I have often thought that when God made man "in His image", it is with many of His characteristics and nature (though inferior), and each one of us makes a unique contribution to life in our type. We also make a contribution to our marriage in a unique way. Through 50+ years of marriage I have learned that I need my wife's different ways to balance things for us, and try to not be judgmental. We are not perfect and speak our mind, but are in love which overcomes all things.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Pulling this one back up because this is actually pretty funny.

Although I don't have my clothes separated by color, only by type, I'll use color to illustrate the different categories, because that's easier and less time consuming than drawing a picture and uploading it.

So I have my half of the closet grouped:

IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII

His side, because it doesn't matter to him as long as the clothes are hung up, is more like:

II I I I I II I II II II I II III II

Well, last week, he did the laundry. He remembered that I like to group my clothes, and he put my stuff into categories.

II I II II

Then he just made a hole on the rack, and hung up the entire grouped subset into one spot:

IIII IIII IIII IIII (II I II II) IIII IIII

And couldn't for the life of him figure out why I wasn't satisfied. "Hey, I did what you wanted. I sorted the clothes out before I hung them up. Isn't that what you told me to do?"

Well, he clearly does not grasp the concept. Any attempts after this to explain it to him are going to sound like nagging. I guess I just need to do it myself, or rearrange it after he's done it.

PS: This week we both pitched in to get the laundry done. Just now, when the dryer buzzed, I went to hang up the last load. He had hung up the previous load. That's when I noticed, he hung and put away his own clothes, then he hung mine and left them in the laundry closet for me to put away. Fair enough. If he can't understand the idea of hanging shirts with shirts, jeans with jeans, dresses with dresses, and sweaters with sweaters, I'll just do it myself. But I can't figure out WHY he doesn't get it.

 

[akmom]

I would call that a commendable effort. Clearly he was not being lazy, but truly (for whatever reason) doesn't "get it."