Different Jesus (2 Cor 11:4)

[Roman57]

The verse about "different Jesus" always confused me. Just how do you define human identity? Lets say I alter just one detail of my life. Will I be a different person? Now lets say I alter a fair amount of my life events, but not all of them. Would I be a different person? Now lets say I rewrite my whole entire life. Would I be a different person? Lets say all the events before my birth were the same, but shortly after I was born, my parents were to put me into orphanage and abandoned me. Would I have been a different person?

And now lets imagine the reverse situation. Can someone else have some of the things in common with me? Yes. Are they the same person as me? No. But what if I had an identical twin? Would the identical twin be the same person as me? Still no. But what if identical twin made all the same choices I made and had all the same habbits I have. Would they be the same person? Still no. Now, I don't have identical twin. In fact I don't have any sibblings at all. But the person you are picturing when you picture me, do you really picture the real me, or do you mistakenly picture my non-existent identical twin in my place? Or even worse: maybe you picture someone else entirely in my place since you never met me. Or if someone did meet me but don't remember me well, they still can picture someone else in my place.

Normally we can brush aside those questions as philosophical. But in light of 2 Cor 11:4 they become all important. Maybe we picture a different Jesus and thus aren't saved? Normally, people assume that by "different Jesus" that verse talks about Jesus with a different doctrine. So as long as we have the right doctrine we have the right Jesus. But is this really true? I can have an identical twin that can have the same doctrine as me, but it will still be a different person. And, conversely, I used to be atheist in distant past, but I was still the same person. So how do I really define the same Jesus versus different Jesus? Yet I have to answer this question before I die in order to make sure I don't go to hell.

 

[Clare73]

The verse about "different Jesus" always confused me. Just how do you define human identity? Lets say I alter just one detail of my life. Will I be a different person? Now lets say I alter a fair amount of my life events, but not all of them. Would I be a different person? Now lets say I rewrite my whole entire life. Would I be a different person? Lets say all the events before my birth were the same, but shortly after I was born, my parents were to put me into orphanage and abandoned me. Would I have been a different person?
And now lets imagine the reverse situation. Can someone else have some of the things in common with me? Yes. Are they the same person as me? No. But what if I had an identical twin? Would the identical twin be the same person as me? Still no. But what if identical twin made all the same choices I made and had all the same habbits I have. Would they be the same person? Still no. Now, I don't have identical twin. In fact I don't have any sibblings at all. But the person you are picturing when you picture me, do you really picture the real me, or do you mistakenly picture my non-existent identical twin in my place? Or even worse: maybe you picture someone else entirely in my place since you never met me. Or if someone did meet me but don't remember me well, they still can picture someone else in my place.

Normally we can brush aside those questions as philosophical. But in light of 2 Cor 11:4 they become all important. Maybe we picture a different Jesus and thus aren't saved? Normally, people assume that by "different Jesus" that verse talks about Jesus with a different doctrine. So as long as we have the right doctrine we have the right Jesus. But is this really true? I can have an identical twin that can have the same doctrine as me, but it will still be a different person. And, conversely, I used to be atheist in distant past, but I was still the same person. So how do I really define the same Jesus versus different Jesus? Yet I have to answer this question before I die in order to make sure I don't go to hell.

A different Jesus in the context here is one presented in the mold of Judaistic teachings,
a different spirit is a spirit of bondage, fear and worldliness, instead of a spirit of freedom, love, joy, peace and power,
a different gospel is justification by works, instead of justification by faith only.

 

[St_Worm2]

The verse about "different Jesus" always confused me. Just how do you define human identity? Lets say I alter just one detail of my life. Will I be a different person? Now lets say I alter a fair amount of my life events, but not all of them. Would I be a different person? Now lets say I rewrite my whole entire life. Would I be a different person? Lets say all the events before my birth were the same, but shortly after I was born, my parents were to put me into orphanage and abandoned me. Would I have been a different person?

And now lets imagine the reverse situation. Can someone else have some of the things in common with me? Yes. Are they the same person as me? No. But what if I had an identical twin? Would the identical twin be the same person as me? Still no. But what if identical twin made all the same choices I made and had all the same habbits I have. Would they be the same person? Still no. Now, I don't have identical twin. In fact I don't have any sibblings at all. But the person you are picturing when you picture me, do you really picture the real me, or do you mistakenly picture my non-existent identical twin in my place? Or even worse: maybe you picture someone else entirely in my place since you never met me. Or if someone did meet me but don't remember me well, they still can picture someone else in my place.

Normally we can brush aside those questions as philosophical. But in light of 2 Cor 11:4 they become all important. Maybe we picture a different Jesus and thus aren't saved? Normally, people assume that by "different Jesus" that verse talks about Jesus with a different doctrine. So as long as we have the right doctrine we have the right Jesus. But is this really true? I can have an identical twin that can have the same doctrine as me, but it will still be a different person. And, conversely, I used to be atheist in distant past, but I was still the same person. So how do I really define the same Jesus versus different Jesus? Yet I have to answer this question before I die in order to make sure I don't go to hell.

Hello Romans57, the "different Jesus" that the Apostle Paul is referring to here isn't the Man Himself, it's the Gospel (which is properly and concisely defined elsewhere by Paul as, "Jesus Christ and Him crucified" .. e.g. 1 Corinthians 2:2, or even more concisely as, "Jesus Christ"). @Clare73 is quite right, and her recommendation to understand v4 in context is as well

So again, "Jesus" refers to the Gospel here (or I suppose you could say instead to the Gospel personified), not to the Man (at least not first and foremost in this case anyway).

Getting the Gospel right is, indeed, important, but you should ask yourself what that actually includes (perhaps starting with the concise Gospel, "Jesus Christ and Him crucified", and then expanding on that to arrive at a fuller meaning will help ).

Blessings to you in Christ!!

--David
p.s. - here's one of my favorite Christian quotes for you to consider (as I believe that it speaks to all of this), and a verse to go along with it too from a few Chapters back in 2 Corinthians What "we" do (save our believing/trusting Him to save us) has little to nothing to do w/our salvation/justification, but what "He" does ~for us~ has EVERYTHING to do with it, yes (because even the gift of faith itself .. e.g. Ephesians 2:8, by which we come/are enabled to trust Him/believe in Him unto salvation comes from Him too).

"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf,
so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him"
2 Corinthians 5:21​

 

[Roman57]

A different Jesus in the context here is one presented in the mold of Judaistic teachings,
a different spirit is a spirit of bondage, fear and worldliness, instead of a spirit of freedom, love, joy, peace and power,
a different gospel is justification by works, instead of by faith only.

I know you ``stated" thats what it means, but can you really ''prove'' thats what it means? I guess I know that the surrounding text talks about Jewish teachings. But, to me, that doesn't really ''prove'' that this is what that verse refers to. Because its possible that, while surrounding texts talk about one topic (Jewish teachings) it interjected another topic (different Jesus). I mean it happens a lot where different things are intertwined (like the sermon on the mount goes from topic to topic).

On the face value, ''different Jesus'' talks about identity, not teachings. So can you explain ``why'' the actual meaning is different? Looking at the wording of that verse, can you dissect it and tell me how you interpret each word to actually make it fit the meaning that you suggested -- and back up with the other parts of the Bible that this way of interpreting is the way to go?

 

[Roman57]

Hello Romans57, the "different Jesus" that the Apostle Paul is referring to here isn't the Man Himself, it's the Gospel

But how do you reconcile this interpretation that you suggest with the plain reading of text? And if you say that Jesus is the same as the Gospel, aren't you in a sense falling into the category of denying that Jesus came in the flesh, that 1 John 4:2 warns about, since you are defining Jesus not as flesh but as a Gospel? And also: "if" 2 Cor 11:4 does talk about identity of Jesus, aren't you violating that verse even more by denying his identity as a man?

 

[St_Worm2]

But how do you reconcile this interpretation that you suggest with the plain reading of text? And if you say that Jesus is the same as the Gospel, aren't you in a sense falling into the category of denying that Jesus came in the flesh, that 1 John 4:2 warns about, since you are defining Jesus not as flesh but as a Gospel? And also: "if" 2 Cor 11:4 does talk about identity of Jesus, aren't you violating that verse even more by denying his identity as a man?

No, there's nothing to reconcile because that's not what I meant.

Again, the understanding here is that Paul is using Jesus' Name as the Gospel personified, NOT that He is somehow the words of the Gospel itself, or that the words of the Gospel have somehow become Him (it's just Paul making use of a helpful literary device, as he often does).

So, read v4 'in context' again, taking special note of what the Apostle says in v3 (because if you overthink what is being said there you may actually be allowing your thoughts to lead you astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ) ... not that doing so will mean that your salvation is in anyway lost, just that your frustration level with this will remain so high that it may continue to interfere, to one degree or another, with the walk that He intends for you to have with Him (a BIG part of which includes the rest and peace that we can find only in Him).

Look, He knows the end from the beginning, yes (Isaiah 46:9b-10), which means that He knew EXCATLY who He was getting and what He was doing when He chose to save you (and me too), right, so ~no worries~ (because there is nothing that we will ever do that will be a surprise to Him, because He already knew it all before He decided to save us).

Instead, rest in Him, whose love for you (as His true son by adoption .. e.g. Ephesians 1:4-6) is the same as He is, "from everlasting" (and "to everlasting") .. e.g. Jeremiah 31:3. In fact, this realization, that there was never a time in eternity past when God did not ~already~ know us and love us, His sons and daughters, that is, led Spurgeon to end one of his evening devotionals with this thought,

​

"Everlasting love shall be the pillow for my head this night" ​

You know, whenever I find myself stuck with something that is truly bothering me, like you seem to be now, I take it to my pastor for his help in understanding it better. Perhaps this would be a good thing for you to do at this point too (pastors LOVE answering our questions and helping us, because those are both principal tasks that the Lord called them to in their service to Him (and to us) as His undershepherds .. e.g. Hebrews 13:17).

God bless you!!

--David

Jeremiah 31:3/Deuteronomy 33:27​