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I do not think so. I believe your position is in stone. But that is what we have been given today. Do we have the complete outlook as God has it. No. So there could be some other information that we are not privy to that only God knows.Can you lose your 3rd estate?
Is he a weak God, like you portray our God because he did not save these 3 notorious people?
Seems like a double standard here.
They will be visited by the Holy Spirit from time to time. No progression, no expansion, understanding the profound reality of the second death, for they will never see the Father or the Sons face, forever and ever.
But you don't know for sure, do you? Is that correct?I do not think so. I believe your position is in stone. But that is what we have been given today. Do we have the complete outlook as God has it. No. So there could be some other information that we are not privy to that only God knows.
But you don't know for sure, do you? Is that correct?
I find it interesting that he said: "Some mysteries are withheld because it may be harmful to some to receive a fullness if they are not prepared.For this reason, I am instructed to withhold a detailed explanation of the nature of the estates beyond the Third Estate. These you will need to ask the Lord directly and He will answer you when the time is appropriate." This is the same thing we get from the Bible and the D&C:After the judgment, their fate has been determined. They can't progress to a higher kingdom. To be damned means their progression is stopped. Is that what you're asking?
I have until now only heard of first and second estates. So I found this diagram online:
View attachment 279452
The Principle of Eternal Lives
Now it's clear as mud. I don't even know who this guy is.
Not exactly what I was asking. It seems that at each level of "estate", some are lost along the way. In the first estate in heaven, some fell away and followed satan. In the 2nd estate on earth, some have fallen/ will fall away if they don't "keep the commandments" and such. So, when they get to their 3rd estate, will more continue to fall away somehow?After the judgment, their fate has been determined. They can't progress to a higher kingdom. To be damned means their progression is stopped. Is that what you're asking?
I have until now only heard of first and second estates. So I found this diagram online:
View attachment 279452
The Principle of Eternal Lives
Now it's clear as mud. I don't even know who this guy is.
Your god sent people here and failed to acheive his glory assuring the eternal life of people he sent here. Yet you said they will probably go to a kingdom of glory (which BTW is place of punishment because he can't tolerate sin). You also said:
"Jeffrey Dalmer, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin will all be judged according to their works and will find themselves in one of the 3 glories in heaven. Probably the lower level called the Terrestria kingdom."
Please let me correct you. In Mormonism, they go to the TELESTIAL kingdom.
Do you still think those who experience the second death are in a kingdom of glory and are visited by the Holy Spirit? For what purpose does the Holy Spirit visit them?
No. After the judgement, and the 3rd estate is populated, this is the end. Whatever level they rise to, will be where they will dwell forever and ever.Not exactly what I was asking. It seems that at each level of "estate", some are lost along the way. In the first estate in heaven, some fell away and followed satan. In the 2nd estate on earth, some have fallen/ will fall away if they don't "keep the commandments" and such. So, when they get to their 3rd estate, will more continue to fall away somehow?
Please, you don't have to be quite so dramatic about a mistake I made in Mormonism. But you are right, it is the Telestial glory.
All people who kept their first estate will be in heaven.
But it is one thing to be in the Telestial kingdom of heaven and another thing to be in the Celestial kingdom of heaven.
We have not been told what the administraion of the Holy Spirit includes in regards to the Telestial kindgom, only that he will visit from time to time.
What you have to remember is this scripture:
Philippians 2:9-11 King James Version (KJV)
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth,
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
And you will notice that according to Paul, this is the requirement to be saved.
Romans 10:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
There will be those that bend their knees willingly to Jesus and then there will be those that are going to bend their knees in disgust. But both are going to know by the judgement that Jesus was raised by God from the dead. So all but a few will be saved.
The question is where will they be saved to?
The Church of Jesus Christ has the perfect answer. They will be saved in heaven, but the lowest level of heaven, far away from God and Jesus, and they will suffer the second death. Fortunately, they will be in a place whose beauty is beyond our human thoughts, and there they will dwell for eternity.
Not exactly what I was asking. It seems that at each level of "estate", some are lost along the way. In the first estate in heaven, some fell away and followed satan. In the 2nd estate on earth, some have fallen/ will fall away if they don't "keep the commandments" and such. So, when they get to their 3rd estate, will more continue to fall away somehow?
You said: "Any place without the Only True God will be hell!I wasn't dramatic.
In Christianity heaven is where God dwells. In Mormonism gods dwell only in the highest level of the celestial kingdom.
Those individuals who don't accept Joseph Smith, and obey all the commandments and ordinances of Mormonism are outside in another kingdom.
"If you would become a son or daughter of God and an heir of the kingdom, then you must go to the [temple] house of the Lord and receive blessings which there can be obtained and which cannot be obtained elsewhere, and you mudt keep those commandments and those covenants to the end. . . .
“The ordinances of the temple, the endowment and sealings, pertain to exaltation in the celestial kingdom, where the sons and daughters are. The sons and daughters are not outside in some other kingdom. The sons and daughters go into the house, belong to the household, have access to the home. ‘In my Father’s house are many mansions’ [John 14:2]. Sons and daughters have access to the home where he dwells, and you cannot receive that access until you go to the temple."
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:40
A study of Mormonism and common sense tells everyone that there is no logical reason for the Mormon holy ghost to vist those incividuals.
I remember the majority of New Testament verses. What you have to do is abandon the teachings and interpretations of Mormonism.
Paul wasn't speaking to those who have been buried. We can't wait and hope to confess Christ in our graves.
Hebrews 9
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
God's dwelling place is where the saved will dwell. Read the Bible.
The second death is not to a place of beauty. Any place without the Only True God will be hell!
You said: "Any place without the Only True God will be hell!
Does that mean we are in Hell?
Won't He still be before all things? He can go where He pleases.Cute. "Will be" refers to the future. Read statements in context.
In Christianity heaven is where God dwells. In Mormonism gods dwell only in the highest level of the celestial kingdom.
Those individuals who don't accept Joseph Smith, and obey all the commandments and ordinances of Mormonism are outside in another kingdom.
Ironically, this is a better answer to my question than the LDS provided. Thanks!The second estate (mortality) is a time to be tested. If we pass the test, we won't have another test.
You will recall Abraham’s saying that in the spirit world the Lord promised that “they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; … and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.”
We know that we kept our first estate because we are here in mortality, and by receiving our bodies we have been added upon. We further know that the gospel teaches us how we must keep this, our second estate, in order that in the next life, the third estate, we may “have glory added upon [our] heads for ever and ever.”
We Are Children of God
Actually her conclusion is wrong. What she quoted does not mean there won't be any more tests. She is jumping to conclusions.Ironically, this is a better answer to my question than the LDS provided. Thanks!
Other than your meaningless opinion on the matter, do you have something official from your church refuting what your church has already said on the topic?Actually her conclusion is wrong. What she quoted does not mean there won't be any more tests. She is jumping to conclusions.
Nothing from the LDS Church or doctrine thereof nor does the doctrine refute other possible estates such as the forth estate. There is this:Other than your meaningless opinion on the matter, do you have something official from your church refuting what your church has already said on the topic?
Nothing from the LDS Church or doctrine thereof nor does the doctrine refute other possible estates such as the forth estate. There is this:
The Principle of Eternal Lives
Actually her conclusion is wrong. What she quoted does not mean there won't be any more tests. She is jumping to conclusions.
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