your reply reminds me of children fighting: "I know you are, but what am I"? Really, you resort to this?Rather, you are the one derailed.
Actually, it is a warranted response to what I see as trolling, which began with your provocative misleading remark on the " good 'ol days," but will end here. Bye now.your reply reminds me of children fighting: "I know you are, but what am I"? Really, you resort to this?
It's a time period that will go down in history as the formal break between Europe and Christianity. It has been a long time coming but the wars ended Europe as a Christian base and it resulted in the loss of Europe as moral authority worldwide. It's been downhill for Europe ever since. While economically prosperous, spiritually and morally Europe is dead.When you think about it, Europe went from World War I to a world wide depression and then on to WW II. It must have been one terrible period for millions in Europe.
I think you need to look at what pope John XXIII said about why he called the council. And pay attention to people he was advised by, like Jacques Maritain and the like. You proposed a meta-theory without evidence but there is some evidence to be had with which to create a theory of why the council was called. Of course there are also concerns about how the council was run, what various groups thought the council actually did, and then the whole issue of the 'spirit of Vatican II. It would be useful for you to look at the 1985 Synod on Vatican II called by pope John Paul II. It is a key for separating out the meat from the muck after Vatican II.Do not get me wrong. I am not saying that WW II and the Holocaust were the only reasons for a change in the salvation teaching. Obviously, we all know that Modernism generally was a big factor. Undoubtedly many in the Church by the mid 1900's had begun to doubt the very narrow view of salvation that was taught by the Papal Bull Cantate Domino. Still, I just have a feeling that the horrendous pain and suffering that humanity endured in WW II and the Holocaust, gave a real push to the Church leaders to respond by loosening the doors of salvation, so to speak.
I guess I am saying that when the Church leaders looked at the terrors of WW II and the Holocaust, they asked themselves a question. With millions of Jews and Protestants and Muslims having suffered and died, did God automatically condemn all of them to eternal punishment, just because they were not members of the visible Catholic Church? Somehow, I believe that their hearts were softened by the awesome suffering of humanity and they decided it was time to express officially what most of them already believed, that the exclusivist position of Cantate Domino was no longer tenable in the mid-1900's.
And also damning souls that were saved, and when "Christian Charity" could mean torturing even witnesses of suspected heretics and exterminating those convicted thereby.
If this is a reason than her attitude and treatment of Jews for centuries prior to this must be also be considered.If the Holocaust helped ignite the 2nd Vatican council, then it could be because of repentance of the Vatican's role during the Holocaust.
I believe numerous average everyday people are able to figure out that Outside of God, There is no Salvation which means the Church relies on Him too. The root of OCNS could have its' origins, as far as monumental events is concerned, to Martin Luther with his Ninety-five Theses.What think ye? Could there be something to my thesis or am I completely off base as to why the Catholic Church changed it's interpretation of the age-old salvation doctrine known as "Outside the Church, There is no Salvation"?
But the doctrine at issue is that of EENS: Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus/Outside of the Church there is no Salvation. And the attempts to reconcile this with classic, even "infallible" EENS statements fail. Some construe this to mean that since saving Truth comes thru their Church and belief puts then into the mystical body of Christ, then non-Catholics can be saved without being formal member of their "one true church."I believe numerous average everyday people are able to figure out that Outside of God, There is no Salvation which means the Church relies on Him too.
I think it's a matter of eccumanism. I can easily say "you may be saved". Its really a no lose situation. I appear to be friendly yet I offer nothing substantial.The 2nd Vatican Council taught for the first time in a definitive manner, that non-Catholic Christians and non-Christians, have the possibility of attaining salvation, via the doctrine of "invincible ignorance"
The holocaust was scarcely talked about prior to the 1970's. It's been forever since I read through the various Vatican II documents but off-hand I'm at a loss to recall any specific reference to the holocaust anywhere.While I cannot prove my thesis, I have believed it to be true for many years. I am convinced that the horrendous toll that World War II took upon humanity and especially in Europe, plus the unreal horrors of the Holocaust and it's huge impact upon the Jewish people, was a major spark that helped to cause the Catholic Church to open the doors of salvation to non-Catholics. The 2nd Vatican Council taught for the first time in a definitive manner, that non-Catholic Christians and non-Christians, have the possibility of attaining salvation, via the doctrine of "invincible ignorance". I suppose that World War I and the worldwide depression could have been additional causes, but I think World War II carries the most weight.
What think ye? Could there be something to my thesis or am I completely off base as to why the Catholic Church changed it's interpretation of the age-old salvation doctrine known as "Outside the Church, There is no Salvation"?
While I cannot prove my thesis, I have believed it to be true for many years. I am convinced that the horrendous toll that World War II took upon humanity and especially in Europe, plus the unreal horrors of the Holocaust and it's huge impact upon the Jewish people, was a major spark that helped to cause the Catholic Church to open the doors of salvation to non-Catholics. The 2nd Vatican Council taught for the first time in a definitive manner, that non-Catholic Christians and non-Christians, have the possibility of attaining salvation, via the doctrine of "invincible ignorance". I suppose that World War I and the worldwide depression could have been additional causes, but I think World War II carries the most weight.
What think ye? Could there be something to my thesis or am I completely off base as to why the Catholic Church changed it's interpretation of the age-old salvation doctrine known as "Outside the Church, There is no Salvation"?
Why did Bl. Pope John XXIII call an ecumenical council in the first place?
When he [delivered] his opening speech to the Council, he just said it was an inspiration of the Holy Spirit. But there was a lot of consideration behind it. Blessed John XXIII had a prophetic insight into the need to present the faith of the Church to a world that was rapidly and significantly changing. It was the time of the Cold War, [and] the [advances] in communication and transportation [were] making the world a global village. In fact, for public relations photos, he often posed next to this huge globe, representing his concern for the whole world. He wrote encyclicals - Pacem in Terris [Peace on Earth], Mater et magistra [Mother and Teacher] - [sending] the message of peace and unity out to the world. That [concern] was a seed of the new evangelization. John Paul II said that the new evangelization was born out of the Second Vatican Council.
If the Holocaust helped ignite the 2nd Vatican council, then it could be because of repentance of the Vatican's role during the Holocaust.
The holocaust was scarcely talked about prior to the 1970's. It's been forever since I read through the various Vatican II documents but off-hand I'm at a loss to recall any specific reference to the holocaust anywhere.
My view is Pope John XXIII wanted to institute certain reforms and began the process just about as quickly as he could.
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