Did the crisis at the border begin with...

[OldWiseGuy]

...our support for regime change in Central American countries, or our failure to win the war on drugs here at home?

Would those regimes have been corrupted without the flow of drug money from the U.S.? Perhaps, but to the extent that their entire population has been brutalized to the point of mass emigration? I don't think so. Thoughts?

 

[timothyu]

Follow the money. Who has been footing the bill for buses, food, camps and clothes for these politically convenient pushes towards the southern border. The media related pushes where many arrived almost as fresh as the day they left home tells something.

 

[inquiring mind]

...our support for regime change in Central American countries, or our failure to win the war on drugs here at home?

Would those regimes have been corrupted without the flow of drug money from the U.S.? Perhaps, but to the extent that their entire population has been brutalized to the point of mass emigration? I don't think so. Thoughts?

I'd have to go with (C), Biden's election.

 

[FenderTL5]

I'd have to go with (C), Biden's election.

Given that issues at the border predate the previous administration and were, in part, what Trump ran his first campaign for president on; your conclusion seems to be short-sighted.

 

[timothyu]

I'd have to go with (C), Biden's election.

Or D... destabilize the system

 

[inquiring mind]

Given that issues at the border predate the previous administration and were, in part, what Trump ran his first campaign for president on; your conclusion seems to be short-sighted.

Texas wasn't building its own wall prior to Biden's election.

 

[Larniavc]

...our support for regime change in Central American countries, or our failure to win the war on drugs here at home?

Would those regimes have been corrupted without the flow of drug money from the U.S.? Perhaps, but to the extent that their entire population has been brutalized to the point of mass emigration? I don't think so. Thoughts?

America’s war against drugs no doubt had a huge impact. But don’t forget that a lot of people have bought into the propaganda that Hollywood has pumped out for decades that America is the place to go to prosper.

Which for the vast majority is simply untrue.

 

[FenderTL5]

Texas wasn't building its own wall prior to Biden's election.

Right, and the topic is on the origins of the crisis, not the origins of proposed actions intended to alleviate the crisis.

 

[timothyu]

Right, and the topic is on the origins of the crisis

Again, as always in every situation, follow the money. Is this push directly related towards the push towards globalisation and corporative government which would first require destabilization of nationalistic systems? This is what is occurring in the world and it is time people caught on while they still can call themselves old school.

 

[inquiring mind]

Right, and the topic is on the origins of the crisis, not the origins of proposed actions intended to alleviate the crisis.

I already gave you the origin of the crisis (IMO). This action just supports it.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

America’s war against drugs no doubt had a huge impact. But don’t forget that a lot of people have bought into the propaganda that Hollywood has pumped out for decades that America is the place to go to prosper.

Which for the vast majority is simply untrue.

Many came to work in America in order to subsidize their families back in their homeland. This before those governments were corrupted by drug money.

 

[FenderTL5]

Okay. I see that you are confused and scratching your head.

Biden was elected president in 2020.
The crisis at the border has origins that predate 2020, even predate the previous administration (who was elected in 2016). Otherwise, Trump's campaign promise to "Build a Wall" to handle border issues was fortune telling on something that didn't exist yet.
Yet, There were crisis at the border early in Trump's administration (remember the caging of children?) and those issues were present in the administration before his as well. In fact the origin would have to go back several years prior. The origin could not possibly take place years after the issues were already present - it wouldn't be the origin.
I wonder, do calendars and clocks confuse you this much also?

 

[inquiring mind]

Okay. I see that you are confused and scratching your head.

Biden was elected president in 2020.
The crisis at the border has origins that predate 2020, even predate the previous administration (who was elected in 2016). Otherwise, Trump's campaign promise to "Build a Wall" to handle border issues was fortune telling on something that didn't exist yet.
Yet, There were crisis at the border early in Trump's administration (remember the caging of children?) and those issues were present in the administration before his as well. In fact the origin would have to go back several years prior. The origin could not possibly take place years after the issues were already present - it wouldn't be the origin.
I wonder, do calendars and clocks confuse you this much also?

What I’m wondering is why some can’t distinguish between a problem that’s being addressed and managed (better by some than others), and a crisis that is out of control. Yes

 

[Valletta]

Given that issues at the border predate the previous administration and were, in part, what Trump ran his first campaign for president on; your conclusion seems to be short-sighted.

The Biden administration policies PROMOTE sexual exploitation of women and children. The coyotes involved in human trafficking and drug running can come into the U.S., turn themselves in, and get a ride to the border. Women and children are being flown around the country in the middle of the night and handed over to men without doing proper identity verification. Law enforcement reports that both adult and child females must work in the sex industry six days a week to try and work of what they owe the criminals for transportation into the U.S. Should they miss a day they get no credit for days worked.

 

[CatsRule2020]

President Nixon (the evidence now indicates) had to stop the Domino Affect in Southeast Asia, and at the same time bring our troops home. So he made a deal with Communist Red China. We would gradually surrender enough of our economy to them if they halted the countryside peasant warfare of the Domino Affect with their neighboring countries.

When so many jobs left the US for China, it started leaving low paying non-skill jobs that most in the US would not accept. Ronald Reagan and the Bushes made formal proclamation to the neighbors south of our border to come fill this void. This they have done.

 

[inquiring mind]

President Nixon (the evidence now indicates) had to stop the Domino Affect in Southeast Asia, and at the same time bring our troops home. So he made a deal with Communist Red China. We would gradually surrender enough of our economy to them if they halted the countryside peasant warfare of the Domino Affect with their neighboring countries.

When so many jobs left the US for China, it started leaving low paying non-skill jobs that most in the US would not accept. Ronald Reagan and the Bushes made formal proclamation to the neighbors south of our border to come fill this void. This they have done.

Trump was turning it around and we see where that went... now we're back to America last again.

 

[CatsRule2020]

Trump always wanted to be a mafia chief but he didn't have the brains. He came close to becoming one when Putin put him in office last time. Things got in his way from running that business like a crime family though.
No, Trump was not capable of solving this country's or any other country's problems. He was only capable of causing problems. This is why Putin had such a close superficial relationship with him. After Putin finds him of no more use to him he will treat the 'godfather' as he always treated those who were of no more use to him.

 

[inquiring mind]

Trump always wanted to be a mafia chief but he didn't have the brains. He came close to becoming one when Putin put him in office last time. Things got in his way from running that business like a crime family though.
No, Trump was not capable of solving this country's or any other country's problems. He was only capable of causing problems. This is why Putin had such a close superficial relationship with him. After Putin finds him of no more use to him he will treat the 'godfather' as he always treated those who were of no more use to him.

I bet Never-Trumpers will even get tired of the view from the back of the line in 3 1/2 more years.

 

[FenderTL5]

What I’m wondering is why some can’t distinguish between a problem that’s being addressed and managed (better by some than others), and a crisis that is out of control. Yes

In a word, no.
What you are interjecting has nothing to do with the topic. I was and am interested in discussion and opinions on topic.
Your disingenuous partisan swipe has nothing to do with it. I don't care whether you think Trump was a genius or an evil tyrant - nor do I care your opinion on the current administration - NEITHER has anything to do with the topic.


I'm interested in things like: Mérida Initiative 2007
George W. Bush-initiated a plan that would direct billions of dollars to military equipment, aid, and infrastructure in Mexico (with smaller amounts going to Central America). One of its four pillars was the creation of "a 21st century border" by pushing Mexico to militarize its southern border. By 2013, Washington had funded 12 new military bases along that border with Guatemala and a 100-mile "security cordon" north of it.

Did this play role? Certainly.
Was it the beginning, the catalyst the "origin?"
I don't know. I would presume it goes back further than that.

copy/paste from another article:
In response to what was seen as a child-migrant crisis in the summer of 2014 (sound familiar?), President Barack Obama further pressured Mexico to initiate a new Southern Border Program. Since then, tens of millions of dollars a year have gone toward the militarization of that border and Mexico was soon detaining tens of thousands of migrants monthly. Not surprisingly, deportations and human-rights violations against Central American migrants shot updramatically there. "Our border today in effect is Mexico's border with Honduras and Guatemala," exulted Obama's former border czar Alan Bersin in 2019. A local activist was less sanguine, protesting that the program "turned the border region into a war zone."

Is this true? It's not the origin, because it happened after that which I posted above.


What can be said with 100% certainty: None of this had its origin with Biden being elected.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

There is a big difference between a man coming to America to work and sending support to his family back in their homeland, and an entire family fleeing their homeland. It is the latter that this thread seeks to address.