Did Paul consider himself a "sinner", are we supposed to think of ourselves as sinners...?

SeventyOne said:

I guess that just depends on the definition of the term. Is a sinner someone who lives in unrepentant sin, or one who occasionally sins and then repents.

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Are you ignorant of what the definition of Sin is (and there is only one Definition), or are you just making things up as you go along?

Neogaia777 said:

Did Paul consider himself a "sinner"?, How many of which disciples/apostles think of themselves as sinners...? Are we supposed to think of ourselves or consider ourselves as sinners...? Even after we say we are saved...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

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1 Timothy chapter 1 verse 15
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners--of whom I am the worst.

That's what Paul said.

I was a sinner.

Now I am a saint carrying around my old flesh. At times, I may choose to sin, but I am not a slave to it, nor can I remain in unrepentant sin.

SBC said:

The Truth is the Word of God.

And IF you are Converted, you are forgiven your sins, and INCAPABLE of ever again committing sin.

So, no a Converted man, could not sin today, in deed, in thought, in failing to do good works.

God Bless,
SBC

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Even Apostle Peter and Barnabas committed sin and were openly rebuked for it. It's documented in Galations 2. I doubt anybody would argue that Apostle Peter wasn't a converted man.

11 But when Peter came to Antioch, I had to oppose him to his face, for what he did was very wrong. 12 When he first arrived, he ate with the Gentile believers, who were not circumcised. But afterward, when some friends of James came, Peter wouldn’t eat with the Gentiles anymore. He was afraid of criticism from these people who insisted on the necessity of circumcision. 13 As a result, other Jewish believers followed Peter’s hypocrisy, and even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy.

Neogaia777 said:

Did Paul consider himself a "sinner"?, How many of which disciples/apostles think of themselves as sinners...? Are we supposed to think of ourselves or consider ourselves as sinners...? Even after we say we are saved...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

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I am not a sinner! I am a Saint... I am a new creation in Christ! I am the Head and not the tail! I am a child of God! I am a joint heir with Christ... I am free! and who the Son sets free is free indeed!!!!!!!

SBC said:

The Truth is the Word of God.

And IF you are Converted, you are forgiven your sins, and INCAPABLE of ever again committing sin.

So, no a Converted man, could not sin today, in deed, in thought, in failing to do good works.

God Bless,
SBC

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My brother a converted man can sin and if you say you are without sin, you lie and truth is not in you. I would say this tho, a converted man could not live in or practice sin because the seed of God (Holy Spirit) is in him and He cannot live in or practice sin.... God Bless

Neogaia777 said:

Did Paul consider himself a "sinner"?, How many of which disciples/apostles think of themselves as sinners...? Are we supposed to think of ourselves or consider ourselves as sinners...? Even after we say we are saved...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

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Paul said he was the chief of sinners. But that was where he came from, not what he was presently. He was dead to sin, and talks of a clear conscience. He did not walk in the flesh, but in the Spirit. So, no, none of the apostles claimed to still sin.

JIMINZ said:

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Are you ignorant of what the definition of Sin is (and there is only one Definition), or are you just making things up as you go along?

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it's not about the definition of sin but the definition of sinner! that's where you guys are butting heads. sin is falling short of the glory of God POINT BLANK PERIOD. and we all do it! believer and non believer but the difference between a sinner and a saint is that a sinner lives in sin! a sinner practices sin and a sinner isn't IN CHRIST!

1stcenturylady said:

Paul said he was the chief of sinners. But that was where he came from, not what he was presently. He was dead to sin, and talks of a clear conscience. He did not walk in the flesh, but in the Spirit. So, no, none of the apostles claimed to still sin.

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they didn't practice or live in sin!!! but they did sin..... they weren't sinners!!! but they did fall short

disciple1 said:

1 Timothy chapter 1 verse 15
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners--of whom I am the worst.

That's what Paul said.

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He was speaking about his pre conversion. you have you read in it it's full context in order to understand what paul was truly saying. He was speaking of His life living in ignorance...

shaheem white said:

they didn't practice or live in sin!!! but they did sin..... they weren't sinners!!! but they did fall short

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They were dead to willful sins. There are two types of sin; unintentional sin, and willful sin. Check out Numbers 15:22 on... When you are walking in the Spirit, the only types of sins you can commit would be unintentional. Willful sins put you in darkness, and you must repent, turning away from that sin, and towards God, never to commit that sin again.

To say you don't practice sin is a cop out. That would be like, "well, I don't practice fornication so tonight won't matter."

1stcenturylady said:

They were dead to willful sins. There are two types of sin; unintentional sin, and willful sin. Check out Numbers 15:22 on... When you are walking in the Spirit, the only types of sins you can commit would be unintentional. Willful sins put you in darkness, and you must repent, turning away from that sin, and towards God, never to commit that sin again.

To say you don't practice sin is a cop out. That would be like, "well, I don't practice fornication so tonight won't matter."

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no it's not a cop out because it's the truth! but you can believe what you wish saint! I love you with the Love of Christ!!!

shaheem white said:

no it's not a cop out because it's the truth! but you can believe what you wish saint! I love you with the Love of Christ!!!

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The word is "commit" sin, not "practice" sin.

1stcenturylady said:

The word is "commit" sin, not "practice" sin.

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1 john 3:9

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. NIV

Those who have been born into God's family do not make a practice of sinning, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they are children of God. NLT

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. ESV

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. KJV

EnergonWaffles said:

I was a sinner.

Now I am a saint carrying around my old flesh. At times, I may choose to sin, but I am not a slave to it, nor can I remain in unrepentant sin.

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Thanks for your testimony.
My testimony is: I am born of God, I do not commit sin, I cannot sin, for His Seed remains in me.

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

God Bless,
SBC

shaheem white said:

1 john 3:9

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. NIV

Those who have been born into God's family do not make a practice of sinning, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they are children of God. NLT

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. ESV

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. KJV

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The correct interpretation is since you are born of God, you don't keep on sinning/make a practice of sin. The regenerate believer still occasionally sins for no one is without sin (1 Jn 1:8) but the believer who practices sin evidences an unrepentant life and is of the devil.
Little children, let no one lead you astray; the one practicing righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. The one practicing sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. For this reason the Son of God was revealed, so that He might destroy the works of the devil. (1 Jn 3:7-8)

shaheem white said:

My brother a converted man can sin

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Where does Scripture teach you, that a man who HAS become converted, is the SAME OLD man that that STANDS AGAINST God, which WAS his sins, he was forgiven of?

and if you say you are without sin, you lie and truth is not in you.

What is the relevance of you telling me this? The caveat is "IF YOU SAY". Do you think, somewhere I said that? Please quote me, to show me the relevance.

I would say this tho, a converted man could not live in or practice sin because the seed of God (Holy Spirit) is in him and He cannot live in or practice sin.... God Bless

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a converted man can sin....

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With the Holy Spirit in the man? HOW SO?

a converted man could not live in or practice sin...

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Because the Holy Spirit is in the man? But you just made the Holy Spirit in the man irrelevant, when you said;

a converted man can sin....

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The point IS "sin", You seem to be teaching you can be FOR and AGAINST God at the same time.

Not possible. There is no wiggle room for BOTH ways. It's an either, or.
Sin no more = with
Continues in Sin = against

Matt 12
[30] He that is not with me is against me;

God Bless,
SBC

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SBC said:

The Truth is the Word of God.

And IF you are Converted, you are forgiven your sins, and INCAPABLE of ever again committing sin.

So, no a Converted man, could not sin today, in deed, in thought, in failing to do good works.

God Bless,
SBC

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God knows each and every thought you think..
God knows each and every act you do in secret...
God knows when you turn away and do not do what you should have done...

No one fools God with their boasting of rightiousness..

So Let God Judge.. His will be done..

Neogaia777 said:

Did Paul consider himself a "sinner"?, How many of which disciples/apostles think of themselves as sinners...? Are we supposed to think of ourselves or consider ourselves as sinners...? Even after we say we are saved...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

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We are sinners and that is why Christ gave of himself for us. But Paul was trying to make a point, not brag about his less-than-divine status.

Oldmantook said:

The correct interpretation is since you are born of God, you don't keep on sinning/make a practice of sin.

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The correct interpretation is; you are forgiven and sin no more.

The regenerate believer still occasionally sins

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Not true.

for no one is without sin (1 Jn 1:8)

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No kidding. How could a man BE FORGIVEN of sin, IF he was "WITHOUT" sin?

but the believer who practices sin evidences an unrepentant life and is of the devil.

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Correct.
"believer", does not mean, Saved or Born Again.
"having faith", does not mean, Saved or Born Again.
Saved and Born again, means forever in Belief, means having received Gods forever faith-FULLNESS.
The FULLNESS, of the mans WHOLE, body, soul and spirit.

Anyone can believe, have faith, and then STOP believing, and STOP having faith.

It is a believer, who CAN SUBMIT and THEN by Gods ACT, become FORGIVEN.

It is believing men who MAY or MAY NOT, become Saved and Born Again.

It is believing men, that ARE SUBMISSIVE AND become FORGIVEN (by God), that become Saved and Born Again.

Little children, let no one lead you astray; the one practicing righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. The one practicing sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. For this reason the Son of God was revealed, so that He might destroy the works of the devil. (1 Jn 3:7-8)

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IF you study Scripture from the beginning of mankind -

You would find;
God announcing Himself, God revealing His Power, God proving by foretelling and then it coming to pass.

THAT did not change, and was the SAME, when Jesus arrived on Earth.
WHAT DID change, with GOD, was the AMOUNT of information that was given to mankind.

In the beginning of mankind ~ man was likened to a babe, a child. Taught as a child. Lots of rules, laws, prohibitions, and consequences. And missing, like with little children? Reasoning skills necessary for "understanding". Early man, "understood" little. They were immature, without history, without examples. They were like babes. Do this, period. If you do not, this is the consequence. Period.

WHAT did CHANGE, was mankind. They grow, have generations of examples, history to observe, see what happens, WHEN one obeys God and WHEN one doesn't. They mature, in using examples, as their guide, for what is not clear in their understanding.

People became lost, to hearing, seeing Gods power, waiting for the foretelling to come to pass, losing faith, because they do not SEE anything coming to pass. Their impatience overcomes them. Many begin adopting what other cultures do, ie ways of the world.

Jesus arrives on earth. He comes to rejuvenate the lost, those without faith, those who have become impatient, those who have adopted the ways of the world.

Jesus is announced, He reveals speaking the Word of God, He begins revealing His Power, via miracles; THEN, some get it, some do not. IT? What is it? Lo and behold, He IS the Christ. The one they HAVE been waiting for. IS He, He?
But, but, he is "just" a man. Nothing special about him. eh, He's from Nazareth, for crying out loud, ha, ha, a nobody. Not a king, "just", another poor 'ole prophet without wealth, or positional power, eh,
another peddler of prophecy. Or so, many thought!

You know the story, Jesus chooses men to follow Him, the Pharisees get all jealous for the crowds Jesus draws. THEN Jesus begins announcing; HE IS "thee" Son of God! HIS FATHER, IS GOD!
WHAT? WHOA! Oh, no,no,no,no,no! He is making Himself equal to God! He is making Himself God!

DEATH TO HIM! DEATH TO HIM! No one is EQUAL TO GOD! Blasphemy! Blasphemy! Death to Him!

Of course, those were the Jews charges, per their law. And the Romans' law rules the day. And no Roman law allows for Jews to carry out a death sentence for a man. So the story goes all the sneaky twisting of accusations, from the Jews to the Romans in an attempt to get the Romans to find Jesus guilty of something. That failed. However one Roman law, DID provided at a particular time, for prisoner exchange of one Jew for another, and Jesus' was party to that exchange, and thus the Jews accomplished getting rid of Jesus. So, they thought!

Now, ON TO THE POINT -
From the beginning ~ to Christ the Lord Jesus' day ~ to this day ~ ALL the knowledge has been uncovered and revealed that is necessary for a man to pick and choose, to BELIEVE or NOT.

It has over the centuries become RELAXED, from God treating mankind LIKE A BABE, to God treating mankind as men capable of being "full" of knowledge. The Pastors are plentiful around the world. The Script is written and plentiful around the world. The only EXCUSE, is on a man, WHO foregoes and chooses to NOT hear, NOT read. Which, according to God, IS NO EXCUSE, because nothing remains secret or hidden, and He is known world wide. So a man's stubbornness to reject, and the consequence thereof, is his own choice.

Now, continuing with RELAXED. In the OT; repent and believe, was nearly equally mentioned, some 40 + times.

In the NT; repent is nearly the same as in the OT; some 40+ times. And believe, is mentioned some 260 + times.

I am not saying to REPENT is not necessary - what I am saying is to NOTICE the FOCUS is ON BELIEF.

Which is to say, what was from OLD, had an enormous FOCUS on NEGATIVE consequences, according to the Law of Moses.

The progression HAS changed to the POSITIVE of BELIEF. Man does not acquire "faith" by his own initiative. Man can simply be aware, and choose to believe. It is God who gives him "faith".
A man who chooses, must first be aware of WHAT he can choose.
And that "awareness" NOW fills the world. God, Christ, is known WORLD WIDE.

It is NOW a simple matter of INDIVIDUAL men, choosing to Believe, "or not".

So what was Jesus' directive to His servants?

Matt 28: [19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teach AND Baptize, in specifically; the Father name, the Son's name, the Holy Spirit's name.

We see, the teaching commencing. We see Peter, a find example...

Acts 2

1. [38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

We also see, the teaching

Acts 8
[12] But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

The "things concerning the kingdom of God", is about an everlasting place WITH God. One receiving the baptism of Jesus Christ, allows "them" into the Kingdom of God. And on that premise, they submitted and were baptized.

Where did their "repentance" come into the mix?

Men can teach, but then WHO KNOWS, what they retain and comprehend?

POINT BEING, "WE" do not do the forgiving, God does.
POINT BEING, "WE" can simply BELIEVE and SUBMIT, And God does the changing within a man, and keeping of him.

Little children, let no one lead you astray; the one practicing righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. The one practicing sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. For this reason the Son of God was revealed, so that He might destroy the works of the devil. (1 Jn 3:7-8)

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1 John 3:7 is preceded by; 1 John 3:2 which says;

[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God...

1 John 3:7 is speaking to;

[7] Little children

What are "little children" ? They are believers, baptized in the Holy Spirit, but NOT STEEPED in the Word of God.

It it sort of backwards. When we observe Jesus' disciples. They spent 3 years daily, hours on end, hearing, learning, receiving the Word of God. BEFORE they were baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Thereafter, they were, along with other men, sent out to Baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.

The churches, particular, identified in Revelations, received some visits of teachers, some letters from teachers, and the same was to other places disciples and teachers traveled and visited.

A pale comparison to what the disciples of Jesus received, in their daily 3 year communication with Jesus, eh?

The history, from the beginning, of strict laws and rules, and the disciples daily with Jesus, to shortly after Jesus' day on earth, to now - is much more relaxed, to God's focus on mankind's BELIEF and SUBMISSION to God.

Believe and Be Baptized. That is not to say, forget about repentance, or forget about continued learning;

But is is to say; It is revealed, God is wrapping up things.
A mans BELIEF and SUBMISSION to BAPTISM; IS a man, God is claiming unto Himself.

And a man God IS claiming unto Himself, God Himself, dictates the changes in a man, that IS, acceptable to God, to KEEP the man unto Himself forever.

The "little children", saved and born of God, or those "mature, steeped in knowledge and understanding" who are saved and born of God, are equally, acceptably claimed by God.

Neither will falter and ever AGAIN SIN. Never again will their standing be Against God.
They will forever have God WITH them.

Will they have issues, trespasses, with man against man? Sure. And the remedy is for forgiveness BETWEEN men.

Sin, is an issue BETWEEN man and God. And for a man WHO is born of God, that issue is resolved.

God Bless,
SBC