LDS Did Joseph Smith succeed in creating an American version of Islam?

Peter1000 · Oct 3, 2016

tickingclocker said:
It's like a hyper-SDA member who was recently noted as essentially suggesting that Pope Francis is the world's Pope, and expecting us to believe it. All because they were trying to stir up hatred against Catholicism to support their own agenda. No, he's not "the world's Pope". He can only speak for Catholics, because Catholics allow him to. He does not speak for me because I'm not Catholic. No LDS or Muslim leader will ever be my "prophet", whether he or anyone else thinks he is/should be. I have no need of any other "prophet" besides Jesus Christ, the Last Prophet ever necessary. I have all I need in Him. No man's words, no matter how titillating, can ever take His place. Everything else pales in comparison to the "Longed-for One", the Messiah! How could it not??

This is one of the chief areas which instantly makes the LDS, and all of mormonism, immediately suspect to me. This silly emphasis on "ongoing prophecy". We all know any man can make up stuff to inform the foolish of, through mystical/biblical sounding words, too. (Like its never happened before?) Since when is anything else necessary when Jesus said "it is finished", meaning complete, done, perfected--in HIM? What do they take us for, anyway? Children who need to be "soothed" with stories about what our future holds, or have our questions answered in our time? We trust in a holy, all-powerful, omnipotent, invisible God. If we can do that? Why would we be worrying about our future, or demanding to see through that present dark glass? Do I want to know? Sure I do, but I also realize that patience is a virtue, and complete trust in God is worth much more than my human impatience and curiosity. Because that is what God values. NOTHING has ever been about us. It's always been ALL about God.

Now faith is being sure of what we hope for, being convinced of what we do not see. (Heb 11:1)

So then, do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Today has enough trouble of its own. (Matt 6:34)

You say: It's like a hyper-SDA member who was recently noted as essentially suggesting that Pope Francis is the world's Pope, and expecting us to believe it.

Would you have believed the apostle Peter if you had been an Athenian? You see at one time, all the churches believed in the apostles as the head of the church. Part of the apostasy happened because as soon as the apostles were killed, the church divided into 5 major fiefdoms and they all had their own leaders and their own doctrines, and how they believed in God etc. So Antioch would argue with Constantinople, and Egypt would not take council from Rome and Carthage would argue with Jerusalem.

Because there was no true foundation left, the fiefdoms replaced the true foundation with their own leader on a massive throne.

Rome tried hard to present itself as the heir of the throne of Peter, but that got them nowhere. All was a mess when Constantine came into power and everyone hurried to be under this pagan's leadership. It was Constantine that created the church in his image. He was not even a Christian until he died.

Today the apostasy has taken the fiefdoms from 5 to 1,005 +, all having their own leaders that seem to not be willing to have anyone teach other than who they authorize, let alone the Pope of the Catholic church should make a suggestion.

This is not what Jesus Christ set up for his church. The Christian church today is not what Jesus set up as his church. The bible testifies of how the organization should look like, but no Christian church cares to even conform sleightly.

Mormons, at least conform to a large extent to the organization found in the NT. They get ridiculed and mocked for such a stupid idea that the church would still have apostles and prophets today, how stupid is that idea. Well, it was Jesus Christ's idea, and when Jesus restored his church to the earth again, surprize, surpirze it has apostles and prophets. Millions have taken note of that and it is one reason that millions have joinded the church. So if the Mormon church is one of the fastest growing Christian churches, one reason is people want apostles and prophets again.

Would you have taken the words of Jesus that he was sending the HS when he left to mean that nobody had to believe in the apostles anymore? You would be wrong.

tickingclocker · Oct 3, 2016

Peter1000 said:
You say: It's like a hyper-SDA member who was recently noted as essentially suggesting that Pope Francis is the world's Pope, and expecting us to believe it.

Would you have believed the apostle Peter if you had been an Athenian? You see at one time, all the churches believed in the apostles as the head of the church. Part of the apostasy.........

Peter, I don't believe nor do I trust in the blatant lies of someone who had much to gain from them by spreading them. You prefer to believe JS, I know, but I do not nor can I. So suggesting anything has anything to do with some fake "apostasy" is whistling in the wind to me. Try another tactic, because as soon as I see that word, I tune you or anyone else out as non-essential information, and move on.

Next?

myownmynativeland · Nov 12, 2016

ArmenianJohn said:
I would say he did... And I believe it was clearly his intention.

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith said, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us -- ‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”

I think he had a fascination and admiration for Islam and Mohammed and that this is why there are so many parallels between Mormonism and Islam. Here are at least some of the similarities (please provide others if you know of them):
1. Both religions are founded on post-Biblical "prophets" - Mohammed and Joseph Smith.
2. Both religions' prophets wrote new "scriptures"; also, both prophets were considered to be uneducated and this is used to bolster the "miraculous" nature of their having written long books of scripture.
3. They both have strange dietary laws that their religious people are careful to keep to this day. Muslims keep "halal" and Mormons keep the "Word of Wisdom".
4. Both religions have religious buildings that are off limits to outsiders. Mosques are not open to just anyone (the few that are somewhat open still limit where a non-muslim can go) and Mormon Temples are very closed and secretive.
5. Both religions appeal to fleshly desires as "rewards", especially sexual pleasure. Muslims are promised virgins in heaven, Mormons are promised multiple wives with whom they can have eternal sex to populate their planets in the Celestial Kingdom.
6. Religious wars are a common element to both religions. Muslims have jihad and Mormons have their Danite Armies and their wars against Christian and secular Americans such as the state of Missouri or the declaration of war Brigham Young made against the USA.
7. Both religions have advocated for brutal corporal punishment of apostates/infidels. Muslims will cut off people's limbs or kill them in the name of their religion while Mormons have a doctrine of "Blood Atonement" which calls for the killing of certain apostates and sinners, as taught by their prophets.
8. Both religions claim to respect Jesus Christ but neither one accepts Jesus Christ as the same Jesus in Christianity. Muslims believe He was just another prophet, Mormons believe He was a prophet and also a god, but not the One True God. Neither one lines up with the Christian doctrine of who He is.
9. Both religions believe the Bible is fallible and not perfect. This contrasts against Christians who believe it is "Scripture" that is perfect and preserved.
10. A big one - POLYGAMY. Both religions are polygamist (despite modern-day de-emphasis on polygamy by both religions). Both religions' prophets were polygamists and both practiced polygamy with young girls considered "underage" in their cultures. Both have polygamy intertwined with their religions and their histories.

Based on the evidence I think it's very clear that Mormonism is much closer to Islam than it is to Christianity. Muslims believe that a good Muslim is ALSO a "good Christian" because they believe that Islam is a perfected version of Christianity. This is exactly what Mormonism teaches about themselves, as well. Both pay lip service to Jesus but both deny His nature as the One True God.

So, I think Joseph Smith intended to fulfill his quote about being a "second Mohammed" and i think he did fulfill it.

As false religions go the moslem and mormon have much in common beyond starting with the letter 'm' and having a 'prophet' most decent folks would ride out of town on a rail.

withwonderingawe · Nov 12, 2016

myownmynativeland said:
As false religions go the moslem and mormon have much in common beyond starting with the letter 'm' and having a 'prophet' most decent folks would ride out of town on a rail.

They did that once or twice before, my hubby's great grandfather lost three homes and his wife to the mobs. Is this what you are purposing?

myownmynativeland · Nov 12, 2016

withwonderingawe said:
They did that once or twice before, my hubby's great grandfather lost three homes and his wife to the mobs. Is this what you are purposing?

Nah, I am a very tolerant sort. I even offer the young Mormon missionarys a cool coke or cold ice tea when they come by on hyperhot Kansas summer days. As long as another religion is not looking to impose their version of 'Sharia' on America or wage 'jihad' against me and mine I am pretty casual. I would not live in an area with a large mormon minority or majority because I dislike the clannishness in business and employment that brings. Also I regard the LDS Church stance in favor of open borders as frankly lunatic.

Jane_Doe · Nov 12, 2016

myownmynativeland said:
Nah, I am a very tolerant sort. I even offer the young Mormon missionarys a cool coke or cold ice tea when they come by on hyperhot Kansas summer days. As long as another religion is not looking to impose their version of 'Sharia' on America or wage 'jihad' against me and mine I am pretty casual. I would not live in an area with a large mormon minority or majority because I dislike the clannishness in business and employment that brings. Also I regard the LDS Church stance in favor of open borders as frankly lunatic.

This stance seems to contradict your post 63. Would you care to clarify?

withwonderingawe · Nov 12, 2016

myownmynativeland said:
Also I regard the LDS Church stance in favor of open borders as frankly lunatic.

There is a little joke among us whiter folks here in Utah, we're wondering which of the Bishops of the Spanish speaking wards are legal?

I think I sold my modular home to an illegal, when we signed the paper work they drove up in their Denali, it cost more than the home I sold them. I drive around in a 98 Durango with 300,000 miles on it, go figure. ( I can say all this and not be a bigot because grandma crossed the border sometime after 1906)

But, I think the Church has to be very careful, they have missionaries all over the world and they do not wish them to become targets for hate. So we are encouraged to love our neighbors as in immigrants, just as Jesus would have us do.

dzheremi · Nov 12, 2016

withwonderingawe said:
There is a little joke among us whiter folks here in Utah, we're wondering which of the Bishops of the Spanish speaking wards are legal?

Charming. I wonder if they know about your little joke? Maybe you should tell it to them so that you can all enjoy it together.

I think I sold my modular home to an illegal, when we signed the paper work they drove up in their Denali, it cost more than the home I sold them. I drive around in a 98 Durango with 300,000 miles on it, go figure.

Yeah, go figure. Someone browner than you has a nicer car than you do, so that means they're probably illegal, for some reason. Go figure.

( I can say all this and not be a bigot because grandma crossed the border sometime after 1906)

Neat. My grandmother came here from Mexico in the 1930s. I'm glad she did, cos I'd hate to have grown up around all of those dirty, smelly beaners. j/k i'm not racist because my grandma lol just a little joke, as us whiter folks call it.

But, I think the Church has to be very careful, they have missionaries all over the world and they do not wish them to become targets for hate. So we are encouraged to love our neighbors as in immigrants, just as Jesus would have us do.

They certainly have their work cut out for them, yes.

NYCGuy · Nov 12, 2016

withwonderingawe said:
There is a little joke among us whiter folks here in Utah, we're wondering which of the Bishops of the Spanish speaking wards are legal?

That...is horrible.

myownmynativeland · Nov 13, 2016

Jane_Doe said:
This stance seems to contradict your post 63. Would you care to clarify?

Mormons seem to have learned that tangling with the USA is a lose, lose, lose situation for them. You folks have at least publicly ashcanned the customs Americans found offense and on the surface try to appear as good Americans. I do realize though that many of you have a fantasy about coming to dominate North America when the USA undergoes a future collapse. Moslems are much more numerous and hence it is taking longer to teach them their place.

withwonderingawe · Nov 13, 2016

NYCGuy said:
That...is horrible.

Hey we all meet in the same buildings, pay the same tithing and work together on all the same projects. Fact is there are a large number of illegals who have joined the Church and there is a struggle with the concept. We believe in being honest in our dealings with our fellowmen, we believe in honoring and sustaining the law. How can one claim to being honest when one is not being honest about who they really are? At the same time there is the side of Christ like compassion and just accepting them as brothers. Here's and article on the subject?

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...l-immigrants-status-in-LDS-Church.html?pg=all

and remember it was myownmynativeland that brought up the subject !

The couple that bought our home are lovely people, she may be legal but I don't think he is because they put everything into her name. Even then she barely speaks English and they travel back and forth to Mexico often. They have five little happy kids and I believe are Catholic. They keep the house absolutely in top condition and the yard is beautiful which is more than I can say about our past white and lazy renters who could never find time to mow the lawn. They make all their payments on time except one Christmas when they called to asked if they could skip the month and we said yes.

But I'm still very confused as to where their money comes from, they drive the Denali which can cost over $60,000, plus a large brand new truck which has to be up in that price range. They have some kind of TV service with a large TV in every room which must cost a lot of money, brand new leather furniture and they go back and forth to Mexico all the time. He works for a landscape company and she works in factory. I'm still scratching my head?

withwonderingawe · Nov 13, 2016

myownmynativeland said:
Mormons seem to have learned that tangling with the USA is a lose, lose, lose situation for them. You folks have at least publicly ashcanned the customs Americans found offense and on the surface try to appear as good Americans. I do realize though that many of you have a fantasy about coming to dominate North America when the USA undergoes a future collapse. Moslems are much more numerous and hence it is taking longer to teach them their place.

That is really funny,

Nephi prophesying about our day;

1 Nephi 14:12
12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the harlot who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great harlot whom I saw.

Jane_Doe · Nov 13, 2016

myownmynativeland said:
Mormons seem to have learned that tangling with the USA is a lose, lose, lose situation for them. You folks have at least publicly ashcanned the customs Americans found offense and on the surface try to appear as good Americans. I do realize though that many of you have a fantasy about coming to dominate North America when the USA undergoes a future collapse. Moslems are much more numerous and hence it is taking longer to teach them their place.

You are incorrect.

dzheremi · Nov 13, 2016

(staff edit)

You'd know.

Ah, yes, that's the problem: I don't find your racism funny...

...so I'm the one who is hateful.

That's some nice projection to go with the aforementioned racism.

And the point of using the terms that I did is to show what that type of 'humor' reads like to someone who is not predisposed to thinking racism is 'just a little joke among us whiter folks' or whatever. What you wrote is terrible, and that's how you look when you type things like that. Think before you speak or write about other people as an object of ridicule because of who they are. That's a terrible thing to do and it fatally wounds any later claim you make about "treating them as brothers", which is obviously only so much back-peddling away from your racism since no one else laughed at your "hahaha I wonder which bishops are legal" joke because it's dehumanizing and gross.

NYCGuy · Nov 13, 2016

A Dominican friend of mine is actually moving to Utah in two months...he's LDS (converted a little after I did) as well. I hope he doesn't become the target of this joke among the whiter folks of Utah...(he's going to be in SLC though if that makes a difference).

withwonderingawe · Nov 13, 2016

myownmynativeland said:
Its Truth, Fool.
ts

Mormons do think Zion will be built on this continent with Jesus and the New Jerusalem in Israel but not until after Christ comes so you don't have to worry about us trying to take over the Government anytime soon.

withwonderingawe · Nov 13, 2016

NYCGuy said:
A Dominican friend of mine is actually moving to Utah in two months...he's LDS (converted a little after I did) as well. I hope he doesn't become the target of this joke among the whiter folks of Utah...(he's going to be in SLC though if that makes a difference).

Well I'm quite proud of my Lamanite heritage (we just found out) but great grandma marry a Scotsmen/ American citizen who was working in Mexico. Grandma who was born in Mexico married a redhead man but my mom was still quite Mexican looking with brown eyes and a darker complexion, she was very beautiful as a girl. She married a man, my father, of Irish and French decent and wa-la a freckled face blue eyed girl with reddish hair came to be. Thus I am part of the whiter folks but not truly pure white am I!

Now a joke is a joke, I'm sure blacks have plenty of jokes about white folks and Latinos do also. We all have to stop worrying about political correctness, lighten up and laugh together. We need to laugh at ourselves.

Elmer Fudd is a wonderful and funny white cartoon character, no white person ever took offence at him, nor with Yosemite Sam. Mr. Magoo was always running into things, he was funny and we loved him. However we've lost Speedy Gonzales and Little Black Sambo has been rewritten all because of political correctness. Neither character was made to look foolish while Elmer Fudd was, Yosemite Sam was always tripping over himself.

So no matter how anyone one tries to shame me I'll go on laughing at jokes and living my life as an unencumbered American with the right to free speech.

withwonderingawe · Nov 13, 2016

dzheremi said:
I'd hate to have grown up around all of those dirty, smelly beaners.

That came out of your head not mine, that ugly phrase never entered my thoughts until you planted it there.

Luke 6
41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

fatboys · Nov 14, 2016

myownmynativeland said:
Yeah.......................you forgot to mention the BS mormon believe that all Whites except mormons are due to disappear from North America. But then I am used to mormons lying as if they were the clinton campaign.

What are you talking about?

withwonderingawe · Nov 14, 2016

myownmynativeland said:
Yeah.......................you forgot to mention the BS mormon believe that all Whites except mormons are due to disappear from North America. But then I am used to mormons lying as if they were the clinton campaign.

All whites except Mormons?

Where in the world are you getting this stuff? Where are all the black people going to go?

As I understand it when the second coming happens all the honest in heart people of the world will be raised up in the air and there will be a burning off of the wicked. Even a good and honest Muslim will be raised up and saved from the burning, then he will be taught the gospel. Even then not everyone will join the Mormons in their living the Law of Consecration, the Lord forces no man.

Did you know there are more non English speaking members of the church than English speaking.

Please show me your source so I can take a look at it.

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