Did Jesus have doubts and fears?

GratiaCorpusChristi · Dec 15, 2013

Lion King said:
Moses doubted God. What happened to him?

God barred him from entering the promised land for his sin of doubt.

Again, God barred Moses from the promised land because he acted on his doubt. If he had doubted internally, but then his faith had overcome his doubt and he had behaved accordingly, I don't think God would have barred him for that. What matters is which one wins our in determining our actions. For Jesus, faith always won out, to the point that he willingly staked the redemption of the cosmos on his being executed by torture on a cross; that doesn't mean he didn't have doubts (specifically doubts that he never acted upon) that his faith subsequently overcame.

Lion King · Dec 15, 2013

GratiaCorpusChristi said:
The trouble with doubt isn't when you have doubt, but when faith fails to overcome doubt. I can hardly image having faith without having doubt to begin with; it's what faith overcomes. The trouble with Sarah was that her doubt overcame her faith, and led to actions born of doubt; whatever doubts Jesus may have had, his faith overcame them, and his actions- in particular his death- was born of faith. That doesn't mean he never had doubts to overcome in the first place.

I respectfully disagree.

As I said before, having doubts is a sign of lack of faith. Jesus trusted in the LORD with all His heart, body, strength and soul. Never at any time, did Christ's faith in God waver. Never!

squint · Dec 15, 2013

Lion King said:
I respectfully disagree.

As I said before, having doubts is a sign of lack of faith. Jesus trusted in the LORD with all His heart, body, strength and soul. Never at any time, did Christ's faith in God waver. Never!

There is no statement of Jesus doubting and I doubt He was a hypocrite/two timer on the matter either advising this and doing the opposite:

Luke 12:29 And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.

ViaCrucis · Dec 15, 2013

Doubt isn't the antithesis of faith.
Unbelief is.

It's not that Sarah doubted, it's that she refused to trust God.
It's not that Moses doubted, but that he chose to rely on himself instead of God.

Doubt comes with the territory of faith.

It's when we act faithlessly, refusing to trust in what God has said and done that it goes from doubt to unbelief.

-CryptoLutheran

Lion King · Dec 15, 2013

GratiaCorpusChristi said:
Again, God barred Moses from the promised land because he acted on his doubt. If he had doubted internally, but then his faith had overcome his doubt and he had behaved accordingly, I don't think God would have barred him for that. What matters is which one wins our in determining our actions. For Jesus, faith always won out, to the point that he willingly staked the redemption of the cosmos on his being executed by torture on a cross; that doesn't mean he didn't have doubts (specifically doubts that he never acted upon) that his faith subsequently overcame.

Again, I respectfully disagree.

Moses was barred from entering the promised because he did not believe in the LORD (Numbers 20:8-12). In other words, Moses was denied entry into the promised land because he had doubt in his heart. Having doubt, even in your heart, displeases the LORD:

Truly I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. Mark 11:23

Lion King · Dec 15, 2013

ViaCrucis said:
Doubt isn't the antithesis of faith.
Unbelief is.

It's not that Sarah doubted, it's that she refused to trust God.
It's not that Moses doubted, but that he chose to rely on himself instead of God.

Doubt comes with the territory of faith.

It's when we act faithlessly, refusing to trust in what God has said and done that it goes from doubt to unbelief.

-CryptoLutheran

No.

Doubt is to faith what "kryptonite" is to Superman.

But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways. James 1:6-8

Also, doubting God is the same as refusing to put your trust in Him. There is absolutely no difference whatsoever as you would like us to believe. Peter doubted Christ and fell into the water...he refused to trust Jesus and thus fell into the water. Same thing, different words.

Lion King · Dec 15, 2013

squint said:
There is no statement of Jesus doubting and I doubt He was a hypocrite/two timer on the matter either advising this and doing the opposite:

Luke 12:29 And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.

Of course, there is none, because Jesus never had any doubts in His heart.

However, you will you find from time to time, folks who will try and claim that Jesus was like us in each and every way, when it's clear that Christ was different from us in certain ways. Lacking doubt being one of them. Christ's trust in His Father was impeccable. Never at any time did He display any doubt, like human beings are wont to do from time to time.

squint · Dec 15, 2013

Lion King said:
Of course, there is none, because Jesus never had any doubts in His heart.

However, you will you find from time to time, folks who will try and claim that Jesus was like us in each and every way, when it's clear that Christ was different from us in certain ways. Lacking doubt being one of them. Christ's trust in His Father was impeccable. Never at any time did He display any doubt, like human beings are wont to do from time to time.

Some views torture the presentation that Jesus was fully man by making Him subject to matters in identical ways that we are.

The obvious gaffe in that is that there was a very crucial difference, being without sin, which is a huge difference in comparison to an ordinary person.

Having the Spirit without measure provided a position of Divine Dominion over 'all things.'

God granted Him power over all flesh, presumably including His Own Brain and Heart and it's activity, one might think.

John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

There is also a notion in some camps that He could have renounced all that by and as a freewill act if He had so decided to or even sinned. Again, phony presentations used to uphold equally phony position slants.

God was not volatile and unsure about anything, even when fully MAN.

s

bling · Dec 16, 2013

I do not know about Jesus doubting, but going to the cross was not going to be "fun" or desired by Christ.

Lion King · Dec 16, 2013

bling said:
I do not know about Jesus doubting, but going to the cross was not going to be "fun" or desired by Christ.

Are you saying Jesus was an "unwilling" participant in God's plan of human redemption?

miamited · Dec 16, 2013

miamited said:
Hi COM,

I asked another this question and haven't heard back, but perhaps you can provide an answer. How is Jesus cry asking why God has forsaken him a sign of doubt. Do you not believe that Jesus knew all truth? If you do, then when Jesus asked why his Father had forsaken him, don't you believe that God had, in fact, forsaken him? Why is this declaration from Jesus seen as doubt?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Hi COM,

Am I to understand that you are also unable to provide answers for your understanding? I respectfully query again: How do Jesus' words of being forsaken translate into doubt?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Yab Yum · Dec 16, 2013

Lion King said:
Lack of faith is a sin.

Faith and doubt are a positive and a negative definition of the same experience. Lack of doubt is also a sin.

ViaCrucis · Dec 16, 2013

Perhaps Jesus never had any kind of doubt--I haven't argued that He did. But trying to argue that somehow if the Son of God had His doubts at times somehow undermines His Divinity, or makes Him a sinner is a rather massive stretch.

Would it likewise be a problem if the Lord was, at one point, a pimple-faced teenager?

-CryptoLutheran

Lion King · Dec 17, 2013

Yab Yum said:
Faith and doubt are a positive and a negative definition of the same experience. Lack of doubt is also a sin.

blankCrossfire · Dec 17, 2013

Lion King said:

Grandiose · Dec 17, 2013

We need to be careful here with some posts, they are very close to removing Jesus's humanity, which is unorthodox to say the least, and heretical at the extreme. Scripture plainly states Jesus possessed a fully human nature, he wrestled with temptation and fully experienced what being a human entails. He was also in possession of a fully divine nature, though this nature did not override his experience of his humanity. The book of Hebrews let's us know that Jesus can fully comprehend what our spiritual/mental turmoils are like since he himself has experienced it first hand, it is why we can be confident and unashamed to approach the throne for we have a High Priest before God who can identify with us.

Removing Jesus's humanity is a step back into Judaism and an abandonment of what has been done for us.

HisSparkPlug · Dec 17, 2013

We know Jesus didn't "want" to be killed and tortured, this is clear as He asked Father to remove that cup from Him - Yet He was willing to be obedient. He obviously felt deep emotions about His lot in this life as per the scene in the garden.. but He was obedient unto death. We are to do the same if called upon to do so - some of the apostles ran TO their death.. My desire is to be so willing to do His will.

Did Jesus have doubts and fears?

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