Did Jesus go to hell?

PaladinValer · Jul 24, 2004

Sheol/Hades/the Grave (or Pit) isn't Hell. Proof? A simple logical table will suffice:

Sheol is discuseed in the OT
The OT is held by the Jews
The Jews don't have a belief in hell

S -> O
O -> J
J -> ~H
Therefore, S -> ~H

The KJV got the translation horribly wrong.

OrthodoxyUSA · Jul 25, 2004

Eastern Orthodoxy

For many ancient Christians, Hell was the same "place" as Heaven: living in the presence of God and directly experiencing God's love. Whether this was experienced as pleasure or torment depended on one's disposition towards God. St. Isaac of Syria wrote in Mystic Treatises: "... those who find themselves in Hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo no greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in Hell are deprived of the love of God ... But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed!" This ancient view is still the doctrine of the Eastern Orthodox Church.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell

Forgive me....

PleaseHelpMe · Jul 26, 2004

Orthodoxy, is that teaching in any of the Scriptures?

OrthodoxyUSA · Jul 26, 2004

No
The members of the Orthodox Church wrote and assembled the New Testament and they have "handed down" (Tradition) the meanings verbally from the beginning.
To interpret the scriptures without the "oral" Tradition of the Church is how we get so many different churches.

Forgive me..

Faithman · Jul 26, 2004

Jesus was truly man in his soul and body. He got that from his human mother. In His spirit, he is always eternally God, and God can not be seperated from himself. Jesus said as he died "into thy hands I commend my Spirit". At this point the full sin debt was placed upon his soul and body [Isiaha 53] and pleased the justice of God. The Father turned His back on the humanity of Christ who actually became the sin of all humanity. God put on the work glove of human flesh so that He could condemn sin in his flesh. When he was raised from the dead on the third day, he was raised in a glorified body, and now sits at the right had of the Father making entercession for us as a perfect human high preist. He traded in the work glove of carnal flesh, for the lilly white glove of glorified flesh, which is the proper atire for the wedding feast. He now prepares a place for His bride, and will come to take her [the church] home, and will clothe her in the bridal gown of a glorified body, and we will become perfectly one with Him forever and ever in glorified flesh.

Hell is to be totally seperated from the presents of God. God will say if you want to be your own God, well then here, create light for your eyes to see. create air for your lungs to breath. Create earth for your feet to stand on. create the things that will fulfill any desire.

Unfufilled desire is the flames that produce no light, and fire that burns without consumming into nothing. The bible tells us that which is planted in flesh will be raised up flesh, and cast into outer darkness where God will remember you no more. A place where you will quote the scripture, My God my God why have you forsaken me, totally alone for eternaty with nothing to keep you company but the memory of a life misspent, and the eternal burnning of unfulfilled desirers, in the eternal darkness of God's divine abnesia [depart from me I never KNEW YOU!!!].

The only escape is to surrender to the Lordship Of Christ Jesus. In His humanity, Christ suffered the total seperation from God that we all deserve. He paid the dowry for His Bride in Blood. Those who reject this dowry as not good enough, will one day face an eternal jilted lover, who will not stand to look at you anymore, and cast you into the sea of forgetfuness for ever.

\My suggestion to all, is to quit playing religious games, worrying about meaningless questions, and throw your selves on the mercy of the one who made a way for you to escape the eternal damnation to those who reject the dowry that buys their pardon.
Surrender now to the Lordship of Christ!!!!!

Asar'el · Jul 26, 2004

Not sure what the above post does except evade the question, give some unrelated advice, and proceed to condescendingly tell everyone not to bother with what the author percieves to be meaningless, religious games...

In any case,

I believe the Scriptures do teach that Jesus did in fact descend into Hell; and that is because He suffered the full penalty of sin for us. I believe He truly felt forsaken of the Father when He cried on the cross; for a short span of time (which really is an eternity), Christ experienced the FULL wrath against sin. Nevertheless, He did not go there to remain there; but, as it says,

Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
...
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
...
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

joku · Jul 28, 2004

PleaseHelpMe said:
Yeah, this is probably complete nonsense, but isn't it possible?

Jesus suffered for our sins, right? And ALL the sins of the WORLD were placed on HIM when he suffered on the cross. Isn't that why God forsook him? Becuase at that time he WAS sin? (Where he yells "Father, father, why hast thou forsaken me?)

Well, three days later, he rose from the dead? But was he in hell during those three days? Then, when he came back to life, he had escaped hell, defeating the devil and "Killing death forever"? I dunno, just some random thoughts.

The devil was thrown onto the earth... in The Book of Job God ask satan where he has come from, satan said he was on the earth, watching the things that where going on their.

And their is nothing in the Bible that says Jesus decended into hell... it is impossible that happened because when Jesus died He said "Father into thy hands I commit my spirit!"

Jesus put His spirit into His Father's hands..

Athanasian Creed · Jul 28, 2004

joku said:
{snip} And their is nothing in the Bible that says Jesus decended into hell... it is impossible that happened because when Jesus died He said "Father into thy hands I commit my spirit!"

Jesus put His spirit into His Father's hands..

Not only that, Jesus also said "IT IS FINISHED." The complete, total work of the Atonement was accomplished on Calvary's Cross - "once for all" as the Scriptures say. No other payment had to be made for man's sin.

I believe Serapha hit the nail on the head when he referred to the "place of the dead" (Sheol) where Christ went to "preach to spirits" There the merits of Christ's sacrifice were imparted to those saints of the Old Testament whose sins had only been covered by the blood of sacrifices but now, by Christ's once-for-all sacrifice, their sins were completely removed !

Ray

Faith In God · Jul 28, 2004

Third Day; Album: Offering II Song: Creed

"I believe that He who suffered was crucified buried and dead.
He decended into hell and on the third day He rose again."

dunno how good of an argument this is, but I toss it out there.

y'all, just a note; I don't believe the bible goes 100% either way on this issue, but even if i am wrong, this is not a point worth getting violent over, okay?
just a comment; I haven't read the whole thread, but some might end up getting very bitter at being disagreed at.

12volt_man · Jul 28, 2004

PleaseHelpMe said:
Well, there I have it Thanks alot Shawn.

Don't thank him just yet. Gen 3:16 is figurative, referring to Jesus' defeat over death and the grave by the atonement. Second, there is nothing in scripture to indicate that Satan was in Hades or that Jesus met him there.

As others have pointed out, "Hell" here is not clearly defined, as there are several words, each with different meanings, that translate into "Hell".

There is a heresy taught by Copeland, Hinn, Meyer, et al, that teaches that Jesus became a sinner on the cross and had to go to Hell to suffer as a sinner to earn His own salvation before He could earn ours.

This is known as the "Born Again Jesus" heresy or the "Jesus Died Spiritually" heresy. Don't fall for these.

Rafael · Jul 29, 2004

Holly3278 said:
Hmm, but doesn't forsake mean:

To give up (something formerly held dear); renounce: forsook liquor.

To leave altogether; abandon: forsook Hollywood and returned to the legitimate stage

If God had forsaken Jesus, why would he have either given up on him left or abandoned him??

Hello Holly. Remember, Jesus was not only God, but also a man that felt pain just as we do. The only difference was that Jesus had never broken His relationship with God once and was born without the father Adam. Jesus did not inherit the sin nature that we have, but was still fully a man. When Jesus died on the cross, the suffering He went through was like none other that will ever happen in this universe.
Sin seperates us from God. God will not look on it, and the very moment that Jesus bore yours and my sins on the cross, God had to look away and seperate from Jesus for that time. For a person that had always obeyed God and never denied Him once, Jesus must have felt even more alone there, hanging between heaven and earth, rejected by man, and, indeed, He felt forsaken by God for that moment. Was Jesus forsaken forever? Well, we know that answer, no. Because of His innocence, God raised Him from the dead to New and greater life, just as with us. We will follow after Him, the firstborn of many brethren.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Isaiah 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Isaiah 64:7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

TheMainException · Jul 29, 2004

I have leaned towards believing that he went to hell for three days, BUT...right before he died he said "It is finished." So doesn't that lead you to believe that maybe he didn't go to hell? Maybe he finished the work right then and then went to heaven for three days? I don't know, those are just some thoughts of my own.

Athanasian Creed · Jul 30, 2004

12volt_man said:
{snip}There is a heresy taught by Copeland, Hinn, Meyer, et al, that teaches that Jesus became a sinner on the cross and had to go to Hell to suffer as a sinner to earn His own salvation before He could earn ours.

This is known as the "Born Again Jesus" heresy or the "Jesus Died Spiritually" heresy. Don't fall for these.

Very good point !!

Ray

Crispie · Jul 31, 2004

Him being in the center of the earth and rising 3 days later is a figure of speach meaning he was in the grave for 3 days and came back to life, no more. Jesus said that he would be in paradise the same day he died, so he must have been in heaven.

cygnusx1 · Jul 31, 2004

butxifxnot said:
Third Day; Album: Offering II Song: Creed

"I believe that He who suffered was crucified buried and dead.
He decended into hell and on the third day He rose again."

dunno how good of an argument this is, but I toss it out there.

y'all, just a note; I don't believe the bible goes 100% either way on this issue, but even if i am wrong,

this is not a point worth getting violent over

Click to expand...

, okay?
just a comment; I haven't read the whole thread, but some might end up getting very bitter at being disagreed at.

Don't you just love the zany exaggeration ?

What do you mean "you are going to get me........................?"

You will have to catch me first!

PleaseHelpMe · Jul 31, 2004

Crispie, see, I don't know if that translation was correct.

This is some information I've picked up:

There are no commas/punctuation in Greek text, correct? When they translated the Bible, don't you think that was just a handy place to put it?

Rather then,

Verily, verily I say unto you, today you shall be in paradise with me.

but..

Verily, verily I say unto you today, you shall be in paradise with me.

I'm confoozed

Anyway, thats not of my own ideas, I heard it from another.

PaladinValer · Jul 31, 2004

Paradice is one of the two halves of Sheol; it is where the Righteous were in wait.

Athanasian Creed · Aug 1, 2004

PleaseHelpMe said:
Crispie, see, I don't know if that translation was correct.

This is some information I've picked up:

There are no commas/punctuation in Greek text, correct? When they translated the Bible, don't you think that was just a handy place to put it?

Rather then,

Verily, verily I say unto you, today you shall be in paradise with me.

but..

Verily, verily I say unto you today, you shall be in paradise with me.

I'm confoozed

Anyway, thats not of my own ideas, I heard it from another.

If Jesus had said "Verily, verily I say unto you today, you shall be with Me in paradise" it would not be grammatically correct. OF COURSE He was saying it on that particular day. He would have just said, "Verily, verily I say unto you, you shall be with Me in paradise" The Bible translators understood Christ to mean that He promised the thief THAT PARTICULAR DAY he would be in paradise with the Lord.

Ray

Grunt · Aug 1, 2004

LAWise520 said:
I have leaned towards believing that he went to hell for three days, BUT...right before he died he said "It is finished." So doesn't that lead you to believe that maybe he didn't go to hell? Maybe he finished the work right then and then went to heaven for three days? I don't know, those are just some thoughts of my own.

Except that John 20:17 says, "Jesus said to her, 'Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

Personal beliefs:

I think Jesus died on the cross and chose to take on the sins of the world, then descended to hell to take the suffering meant for us.

In the end, the mechanics aren't really that important.

Eucharista · Aug 1, 2004

Jesus did not go to the hell of the damned.

This place of the dead he went to was Sheol or Hades. The place of the dead.

Those in hell would in no way prosper from the Teachings of Jesus that we see in 1 Peter 3:19... where he went to preach to the spirits in prison that disobeyed during the time of noah.

Plus, those in Hel are without the grace of God and He would have brought hem grace.

Next, The thief did not go with Christ to Heaven that day, in a 24 hour period.
Heaven has no day or night, it is eternal day as the book of revelation tells us, and therefore there are no days in Heaven. Secondly, Christ told His followers after He rose from the dead that he had not yet ascended to the Father, who is in Heaven.

Jesus did not go to heaven for about 43 days after His death and it wasn't the hell of the damned that he went to it was the hell of the dead(place of the dead, known as sheol(hades).

This is the constant teaching of the Church.

but what do i know?

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