Did Jesus descend into Hell?

[joevberry3]

Did Jesus descend into Hell to take our place? If our punishment for sin would be Hell, and Jesus took our place 100% wouldnt that mean he was punished in Hell for our sins?
Please stick to the BIBLE and not sentimental reasoning.
God Bless

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Did Jesus descend into Hell to take our place? If our punishment for sin would be Hell, and Jesus took our place 100% wouldnt that mean he was punished in Hell for our sins?
Please stick to the BIBLE and not sentimental reasoning.
God Bless

Many believe that Psalms 88 is a picture of Jesus as he suffered the torments of hell. The exact moment is the evening before the resurrection. There is a case that this psalm could not refer to anyone else other than Jesus.

Psalms 88:1-18 YLT
1 A Song, a Psalm, by sons of Korah, to the Overseer, `Concerning the Sickness of Afflictions.' --An instruction, by Heman the Ezrahite. O Jehovah, God of my salvation, Daily I have cried, nightly before Thee,
2 My prayer cometh in before Thee, Incline Thine ear to my loud cry,
3 For my soul hath been full of evils, And my life hath come to Sheol.
4 I have been reckoned with those going down to the pit, I have been as a man without strength.
5 Among the dead--free, As pierced ones lying in the grave, Whom Thou hast not remembered any more, Yea, they by Thy hand have been cut off.
6 Thou hast put me in the lowest pit, In dark places, in depths.
7 Upon me hath Thy fury lain, And with all Thy breakers Thou hast afflicted. Selah.
8 Thou hast put mine acquaintance far from me, Thou hast made me an abomination to them, Shut up--I go not forth.
9 Mine eye hath grieved because of affliction, I called Thee, O Jehovah, all the day, I have spread out unto Thee my hands.
10 To the dead dost Thou do wonders? Do Rephaim rise? do they thank Thee? Selah.
11 Is Thy kindness recounted in the grave? Thy faithfulness in destruction?
12 Are Thy wonders known in the darkness? And Thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?
13 And I, unto Thee, O Jehovah, I have cried, And in the morning doth my prayer come before Thee.
14 Why, O Jehovah, castest Thou off my soul? Thou hidest Thy face from me.
15 I am afflicted, and expiring from youth, I have borne Thy terrors--I pine away.
16 Over me hath Thy wrath passed, Thy terrors have cut me off,
17 They have surrounded me as waters all the day, They have gone round against me together,
18 Thou hast put far from me lover and friend, Mine acquaintance is the place of darkness!

 

[joevberry3]

Many believe that Psalms 88 is a picture of Jesus as he suffered the torments of hell. The exact moment is the evening before the resurrection. There is a case that this psalm could not refer to anyone else other than Jesus.

Psalms 88:1-18 YLT
1 A Song, a Psalm, by sons of Korah, to the Overseer, `Concerning the Sickness of Afflictions.' --An instruction, by Heman the Ezrahite. O Jehovah, God of my salvation, Daily I have cried, nightly before Thee,
2 My prayer cometh in before Thee, Incline Thine ear to my loud cry,
3 For my soul hath been full of evils, And my life hath come to Sheol.
4 I have been reckoned with those going down to the pit, I have been as a man without strength.
5 Among the dead--free, As pierced ones lying in the grave, Whom Thou hast not remembered any more, Yea, they by Thy hand have been cut off.
6 Thou hast put me in the lowest pit, In dark places, in depths.
7 Upon me hath Thy fury lain, And with all Thy breakers Thou hast afflicted. Selah.
8 Thou hast put mine acquaintance far from me, Thou hast made me an abomination to them, Shut up--I go not forth.
9 Mine eye hath grieved because of affliction, I called Thee, O Jehovah, all the day, I have spread out unto Thee my hands.
10 To the dead dost Thou do wonders? Do Rephaim rise? do they thank Thee? Selah.
11 Is Thy kindness recounted in the grave? Thy faithfulness in destruction?
12 Are Thy wonders known in the darkness? And Thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?
13 And I, unto Thee, O Jehovah, I have cried, And in the morning doth my prayer come before Thee.
14 Why, O Jehovah, castest Thou off my soul? Thou hidest Thy face from me.
15 I am afflicted, and expiring from youth, I have borne Thy terrors--I pine away.
16 Over me hath Thy wrath passed, Thy terrors have cut me off,
17 They have surrounded me as waters all the day, They have gone round against me together,
18 Thou hast put far from me lover and friend, Mine acquaintance is the place of darkness!

Thanks for confirming what i believe.
God Bless

 

[Andry]

What did he do there?

 

[Andrew]

I believe that Jesus went down to 'hell'. The Bible does say that, but Christians differ on what he did there or why he went there.

I do not believe that he went down there to suffer some more (after the cross). It was for some other purpose.

1 Peter 3:19,20
19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

I believe it has something to do with proclaiming his victory to the demons in hell, and bringing out the old saints (eg Abraham) to bring them to heaven.

Hell is not so much a punishment as it is a place to house demons and the unsaved. In the OT, the punishment for sin is sickness, disease, poverty, death, etc (Read Deu 28). I dont think it ever says that the wages of sin is hell, but death, curses etc.

Thus, Jesus took all the punishment for our sins AT the cross. It was all done there and paid there to God's satisfaction, until he cried out "kula!" which means "complete" or "finished". So, I do not see why there should be a part 2 of suffering in hell if its already "complete".

The Psalm 88 does not really refer to Jesus being in hell. It could refer to his suffering when he was held captive in the dark dungeon in Caiphas the High Priest's house.

I was in Israel and they showed us this dungeon in Caiphas house. The prisoner is lowered into this pitch dark pit through a small hole at the top. In this dungeon is also the black shadow imprint on one of the walls. It shows a man with hands uplifted and on his knees. Some believe Jesus was kneeling there praying and worshipping God before his final hours. Maybe its then he quoted Psalm 88.

Anyway, take a look at the pixs...

 

[Gary777]

Yeah i think he sufferedn in hell and was revived by the holy spirit and risen physically on the third day. The fact that he was "risen from the dead on the third day", must mean that he was dead the during the three days before him beeing raised from death. Here are some verses that indicates that:

(i bet you already know that jesus said he would spend three days and nights in the heart of the earth according toe te prophet jonah. The description in jonah's book would indicate that jesus suffered in hell/hades)

Act 13:33 that God has fulfilled this promise for us to their children, when He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm: 'You are My Son, today I have begotten You.'

The key here is that jesus beeing raised from the dead is beeing prophecied in psalm 2 as "today i have begotten you". so in a sence, jesus here was the "firstborn of the dead" that day. Of course this is a spiritual rebirth, just as the one jesus talked about in john 3, not a physical rebirth. Therefore we must assume that he was spiritual dead in hell before the third day, or he wouldnt have to be "begotten" again.

In acts 2 it sais: Act 2:24 Whom God raised, thus doing away with the labor pains of death, because it was not possible for Him to be held by it.

That day jesus was raised, on the third day, the labor pains of death was done away with. Therefor he must have been suffering these pains of death, or he wouldnt have to be loosed from them.

Sorry, it's been some time since i've done a study on this interesting thing, but there are lost of more stuff on this,. but i have to dig into it again.
One key, btw, is to define the word death in a biblical/judaistic way. Death or to die, is not just to be seperated from God, as we often are simplisticly taught. Death is also portraid as a place, a kingdom, and even a power that have dominion over the unbelivers and even the creation, it is the last enemy that will be defeated in the world at jesus return. Therfor, when jesus took our death upon himself, it suddenly gets a more full meaning, not just beeing seperated from Gods precense, even though that was probably the worst part.


btw, i need to add one thing about the descent in to hell and the preaching to prisoners and taking prisoner captive and all of that.

It is clear that jesus did do all of that, but not during the three days.

Theres a scripture passage in matthew, a weird one:
Mat 27:50 But Jesus, again crying out with a loud voice, released His spirit.
Mat 27:51 And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth was shaken, and the rocks were split,
Mat 27:52 and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had passed away were raised;
Mat 27:53 and coming forth out of the tombs after His resurrection, they entered into the holy city and appeared to many.

It speaks here about some of theses prisoners in hell that were realeased and actualyy got to walk around in their bodies IN jerusalem! Thank god its in the bible, or we wouldnt belive it happened.
The interesting thing is that these people came out of their graves AFTER the resurection of jesus, not during the physical death or something, but AFTER the resurection. That means that the resurection had to occure before this release of the prisoners could take place.

This place, and others, shows that the preaching to the folks inhell and the taking captive prisoners etc. happened after the resurection and the ascention to heaven where jesus presented himself before the father as a priest with his blood (according to hebrews). It's not hard to belive that jesus came down to earth after that, because the bible sais that he was among the disciples for 40 days AFTER this before his final ascension ten days before pentecost.

Remember also when mary met jesus right efter they found the emoty grave and he said "do not touch me because i haven't gone to my father yet"...(this is in john 20)
But later he appeared to the disciples and then he told them to touch them and ate with them etc. So, it seems like he had to enter heaven in his priestly ministry with the blood, before he could come back and be touched and migle with us etc. That's at least how the priest in OT operated. when they was about to minister they had to be cleansed and couldnt touch any unclean thing, so it could mean something like that.

 

[Gary777]

I believe that Jesus went down to 'hell'. The Bible does say that, but Christians differ on what he did there or why he went there.

I do not believe that he went down there to suffer some more (after the cross). It was for some other purpose.

1 Peter 3:19,20
19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

I believe it has something to do with proclaiming his victory to the demons in hell, and bringing out the old saints (eg Abraham) to bring them to heaven.

Hell is not so much a punishment as it is a place to house demons and the unsaved. In the OT, the punishment for sin is sickness, disease, poverty, death, etc (Read Deu 28). I dont think it ever says that the wages of sin is hell, but death, curses etc.

Thus, Jesus took all the punishment for our sins AT the cross. It was all done there and paid there to God's satisfaction, until he cried out "kula!" which means "complete" or "finished". So, I do not see why there should be a part 2 of suffering in hell if its already "complete".

The Psalm 88 does not really refer to Jesus being in hell. It could refer to his suffering when he was held captive in the dark dungeon in Caiphas the High Priest's house.

I was in Israel and they showed us this dungeon in Caiphas house. The prisoner is lowered into this pitch dark pit through a small hole at the top. In this dungeon is also the black shadow imprint on one of the walls. It shows a man with hands uplifted and on his knees. Some believe Jesus was kneeling there praying and worshipping God before his final hours. Maybe its then he quoted Psalm 88.

Anyway, take a look at the pixs...

Its a misunderstanding that jesus suffered in hell for our sins, or that some ay that. THe bible is clear that the blood of jesus shed on the cross is the payment. no need to add anything.

In hell jesus had the "full load" of what death is on himself. Beacuse of the blood, and the righteousness released because of the shed blood, jesus could take on himself this "curse" and then overcome it for us. It's not a question of if he had to pay for our sins in hell. that was already done. it is what he overcame for us in the resurection.
A literal translation of col 2:15 shows that jesus overcame the demonic powers for our sake in the resurection. Sorry to say that this may be the most mistranslated verse in the bible.

So counclutions: He did suffer in hell, but not for our guilt. He took on himself our death/curse and all our consecvenses for sins in order to overcome them for us. This was done by his blood, as hebrews 13 sais. (he was raised because of his own blood). Also in Rom 4:25 it sais :"who was delivered up for our transgressions, and was raised for our justification." But this "for" (greek: "dia" is not tranlated like this in the rest of chap. 5, even though it is used some 11 times this place. It is supposed to be "trough" or "because OF". Thats what the word "dia " ALWAYS means. That means that jesus was raised BECAUSE OF our justification not FOR. seems like a minor thing, but it is actually very important. Because it then means that the blood that was shed on the cross for our sins was enough. When jesus on the third day was under the "labors of death" he was not suffering for our sins, it was already paid for. But BECAUSE of our justificattion that had already happened at the cross, he now could be raised and overcome all death, curse, demonic powers, sickness etc, and he did it too. Thats the POWER OF THE BLOOD! in action. And i think satan is working hard to keep it out from our attention, so that we wont know what salvation jesus has brought forth for us.

 

[enoch son]

He went down there to be burned up! His body had taken on all sin for all time. It burned up therefore so was all sin. 1 peter 1-12, 1 Cor. 3- 12-14, ROMANS 10-6-7 And Eph. 9-10

 

[joevberry3]

I also believe he was punished in Hell. Our punishment for sin is hell. So if he took our punishment, that would HAVE to be Hell. We are NOT crucified for our sins, we go to Hell for our sins.
God Bless

 

[Gary777]

I also believe he was punished in Hell. Our punishment for sin is hell. So if he took our punishment, that would HAVE to be Hell. We are NOT crucified for our sins, we go to Hell for our sins.
God Bless

Actually, the vages for our sin is death, and hell is the place where dead go. Sinners don't go there because of punishment, but because thats where they belong. They have the very nature of the one who is the ruler of that kingdom. They are not tormented by God in hell, but by the rulers of the kingdom of death. The final punishment is when hell/hades itself is cast into the lake of fire, gehenna. That has not happened yet.

If what you say is true, then Jesus must have been in Gehenna, not in Hades. He must have been the only person that actually has been in the lake of fire.

Also, the scripture is stating that the blood shed on the cross is what paid for our sins, not the blood shed pluss the torment in gehenna or hades.

No matter whay we belive we still are cleansed so in that sence it isn't really imortant. But, on the other hand, it is important to understand that Jesus overcame the kingdom of hell and all the demonic forces that is represented by it, in the ressurection. THis is where we have our victory. If we make this unclear then our faith will be weak. Thats why i think its important to be strict and clear about these things.

 

[harmmony]

I have read all the scriptures posted here in the hope of finding an answer to my own question about what Jesus might have done during the 3 days between his physical death and resurrection. I have not seen a single piece of evidence in any of the scriptures to support any real idea of what He did. I have seen single scriptures that hint at something, but basically I have found all the information I have read here to be pure speculation without any real evidence from the scriptures to support any hypothesis.

I really don't understand how Psalm 88 can be used to justify anything. A person in real pain as David would have been at points in his life could easily feel all the feelings expressed in this passage.

Everyone is entilted to their opinions on this subject of course, but I haven't seen anyone able to show me the supporting scriptures that prove their view. I will continue to seek out the answer, maybe it's not for us to know exactly what happened, only that Jesus died and was resurrected and so we have our salvation. Thank you Jesus.

 

[Andrew]

harmony,

If you want more scripture support, and a clearer argument, you can read my notes here:

http://sg.geocities.com/saltandlight5/giants.html

It explains in detail what this verse means:

1 Peter 3:19,20
19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

 

[Gary777]

I have read all the scriptures posted here in the hope of finding an answer to my own question about what Jesus might have done during the 3 days between his physical death and resurrection. I have not seen a single piece of evidence in any of the scriptures to support any real idea of what He did. I have seen single scriptures that hint at something, but basically I have found all the information I have read here to be pure speculation without any real evidence from the scriptures to support any hypothesis.

I really don't understand how Psalm 88 can be used to justify anything. A person in real pain as David would have been at points in his life could easily feel all the feelings expressed in this passage.

Everyone is entilted to their opinions on this subject of course, but I haven't seen anyone able to show me the supporting scriptures that prove their view. I will continue to seek out the answer, maybe it's not for us to know exactly what happened, only that Jesus died and was resurrected and so we have our salvation. Thank you Jesus.

Harmmony,
i think you are beeing to critical. My belifs about this are not buildt upon "pure speculations" at all, but on study of scripture. I wouldn't belive in the descencion of jesus into hell, unless i found it in the bible - not in one place but troughout scriptures.
The reason why psalm 88 and ohtre psalms like this (f.inst psalm 16) is thought to be prephetic about jesus in hell is becuase the word SHEOL is used, and even though this may be translated "grave" in some bibles it really is the hebrew name for where the dead spirits/souls went after their physcial death. ANyways, the psalmist couldn't be talking about themselves because obviosly they wern't dead or in sheol (or in the grave for that matter).
As a matter of fact, NT quotes these psalms and explains them to be prophetic about jesus suffering in hell.
We already discusses acts 2 quoting psalm 16, and acts 13 quoting psalm 2.

Acts 2 quoting psalm 16 is not pure speculation. It literally say that God raised jesus from the dead when he released him from the pains of death. THe bibele wouldn't say he was released from the pains of death at his resurrection unless he actually was in the pains of death. So that is a literal description of jesus suffering in hell before his ascension from it. And this is not hidden away in some obscure bible place, this is Peters first sermon on pentecost-day. The very first sermon ever in church history, and it is based upon the messianic psalm 2.

Psalm 18 is another one of these psalms that are written by david, but is actually about jesus' suffering. The reason we can know this is that the psalm is wuoted in both hebrews 2 and romans 15, and there states its about jesus. This psalm also describes jesus in hell (sheol) and how god rescues him. (btw, see that NT never claims that jesus jsut got out of hell,,,,god RAISED him, so he was actually saved from the pains of death). Paslm 18 is written after david almost got caught by saul but got away, but reading the psalm we understand that it is prophetic about messiah or david is overdoing it.

just see it:
Psa 18:4 The cords of death compassed me, And the floods of ungodliness made me afraid.
Psa 18:5 The cords of Sheol were round about me; The snares of death came upon me.
Psa 18:6 In my distress I called upon Jehovah, And cried unto my God: He heard my voice out of his temple, And my cry before him came into his ears.
Psa 18:7 Then the earth shook and trembled; The foundations also of the mountains quaked And were shaken, because he was wroth.
Psa 18:8 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, And fire out of his mouth devoured: Coals were kindled by it.
Psa 18:9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down; And thick darkness was under his feet.
Psa 18:10 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly; Yea, he soared upon the wings of the wind.
Psa 18:11 He made darkness his hiding-place, his pavilion round about him, Darkness of waters, thick clouds of the skies.
Psa 18:12 At the brightness before him his thick clouds passed, Hailstones and coals of fire.
Psa 18:13 Jehovah also thundered in the heavens, And the Most High uttered his voice, Hailstones and coals of fire.
Psa 18:14 And he sent out his arrows, and scattered them; Yea, lightnings manifold, and discomfited them.
Psa 18:15 Then the channels of waters appeared, And the foundations of the world were laid bare, At thy rebuke, O Jehovah, At the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.
Psa 18:16 He sent from on high, he took me; He drew me out of many waters.
Psa 18:17 He delivered me from my strong enemy, And from them that hated me; for they were too mighty for me.
Psa 18:18 They came upon me in the day of my calamity; But Jehovah was my

and on and on he goes....
so here and in the other psalms like this one, and f.isnt in jonahs prayer, in wich jesus sais is a foreshadow of his suffering, they all are in hell (sheol), they all are suffering there, they all call out to god to save them and he does.

 

[Trish1947]

If Jesus came to fulfill all rightousness, and the meaning of all the Livitical sacrifices this is a very good link to explain how he fullfilled them all.

http://www.tbm.org/jesussuffershell.htm

 

[joevberry3]

If Jesus came to fulfill all rightousness, and the meaning of all the Livitical sacrifices this is a very good link to explain how he fullfilled them all.

http://www.tbm.org/jesussuffershell.htm

Thanks Trish for posting the link to that site. It gave me more reason to believe what i have believed for a while now, and that is that Christ went to Hell. I have always wondered how he really paid the debt for our sins, if he didnt go to Hell. Since we all know the debt for sin is Hell, and if Jesus paid it he had to go to Hell.
God bless,
Joe

 

[hal]

He told the thief he would be with him in Paradise.
I believe that was abraham's bosom, or the "cool" side of Hell.
I believe that is also where the old testament saints were on "lay away" until the cross. Jesus preached to them and I believe those who accepted the gospel were resurrected with him.
Paradise is not Heaven.

 

[hal]

Also, I believe when He said "It is finished" going to Hell was not an additional needed act for the atonement. He went there to "set the captives free."

 

[Andry]

He told the thief he would be with him in Paradise.
I believe that was abraham's bosom, or the "cool" side of Hell.
I believe that is also where the old testament saints were on "lay away" until the cross. Jesus preached to them and I believe those who accepted the gospel were resurrected with him.
Paradise is not Heaven.

Hal raised a very good point. By the way, you're not really 91 are you?? And Gary777, I see you're passionate about this subject - wonderful.

Anyways, Hal raised a good point, and I haven't seen it raised anywhere in this thread (if I missed it, I apologize), but didn't Jesus say to the thief "TODAY you will be with me in Paradise." So no disagreement Jesus was 'dead' for three days and three nights, but not all that time was spent in hell/hades/place of the dead - it would seem to me Jesus actually spent very little time there; less than a day.

Comments?

 

[Iddie4him]

Actually in the scripture I have read, Christ tells the robber/thief that "This day you will be with me in paradise." And, Yes, Christ did descend into hell following the crucifixtion. After 3 days he rose again to fulfill the scriptures. I have read my Bible very carefully several times and I am quite sure about this.

 

[Iddie4him]

Read Luke Chapter 23, Verses 42-43. It says here......