If god made people with o.c.d did he also make people homosexual and pedophiles. I don't think anybody says I want to be gay or a pedophile when I grow up. Does Still love them. Are they still saved ?
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Did god make perverts
- Thread starter raven1
- Start date
I just had a thought that it doesn't make sense that he did so I am just going to believe in him just in case he there though so I won't go to he'll. Like I could fool god. I am just a big perverted agnostic freak how could I go to heaven. Aaaahhhhh!!!!!!
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SoldierOfSoul
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No, God does not make perverts, people make themselves into perverts. God made man good (in the beginning), but man made man evil, it was a a choice from the beginning and freewill still exists in mankind.
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tyield1102
Remember this: God is faithful even when we're not
does anyone else ever hate free will sometimes? ever feel that you are two different people?
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babychrist
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Boy. Does this bring back memories.
The thing about freewill, is that it's free--the will is free. If you feel anxious, afraid, or anything else besides a cool, articulated, 'What should I do in this situation?', your will is not truly free.
I use to hate freewill too, until I realized that I was confusing 'freewill', with 'want', because 'want' by it's very nature, attaches itself to the 'will'. To put it another way, there's usually an 'I' before 'want' as in, 'I want' .
I hope this is helpful. If not, I'm sorry. I'm having difficulty writing this morning-a panic attack has seemingly come out of nowhere.
God bless and uplift you.
BC
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I know a girl who started having homosexual a pedophilic impulses between the ages of 8 and eleven. surely no one is suggesting she choose to have these attractions. So where do they come from?
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so babychrist you are saying freewill are wants and things that make us anxious are not freewill.
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SoldierOfSoul
Senior Veteran
There are many factors that could have influenced or predertmined a thought process at such a young age. For one: abuse, when a child is abused they have conflicting reactions in their young mind of what happened and sometimes this sets them on a course of destruction in their thought life. Another possible explination is demonic oppression, if the child's parents live in sin, or if she/he is a product of an evil heritage demonic forces could attach themselves to the child, in any case without the sealed protection of Christ the child is left open to demonic influences unaware. These are some possible reasons but really the answer is: No one really knows why God allows these things to occur, but what we do know is that they are not His fault, all evil in the world can be traced back to the sin of man and God is completley innocent in all matters concerning justice and goodness. We live in a evil world and evil people do evil things in this world and this is what causes suffering, not God, God has only allowed it to continue for a pre-set time in history.
Blessings.
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So God made o.c.d. not other diseases or unwanted attractions like pedophilia or homosexuality. These people are just evil? interesting
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babychrist
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I think it's different for different people.
My step-sister is gay too, but only began to exhibit signs of said predisposition as a young adult. Her mother abandoned her when she was 13 and ever since has had 'mother issues'. Even before her mother left, they were not on the best of terms. I believe her predisposition to be loved by another woman (albeit sexually) is directly related to her unresolved issues with her mother.
Sexual need and emotional need are tightly interconnected, especially for women. So for many, whether it's homosexuality or pedophilia, or even heterosexuality, the sexual need, is really an emotional-relational need seeking bodily expression.
That's how I see it anyway.
Do you know if your friend was abused as a child?
BC
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SoldierOfSoul
Senior Veteran
No, God did not make OCD, God is not the maker of evil things, but He is the maker of creatures that have free will and He is the Judge of these creatures. When man sinned it perverted the creation and the curse that God pronounced on man effected the whole earth (which God had put under man's control). This curse is what has produced mental illness and of course the continuing sins of MAN such as rape, pedophilia and the like. Again, all evil can and should be traced back to the sin of mankind (which man still commits regularly).
But God is so loving that He refused to leave us in such a condition, but sent His Son Jesus Christ as the Redeemer of man to earth and we can now have restored fellowship, forgiveness of sins and eternal life (a eternity without evil or suffering) in Him.
Jesus will one day set up His kingdom on earth (though it will be a new earth) and all suffering will be done away with, He will wipe all tears from our eyes and we will enjoy Him forever. God is not finished with us yet. The suffering we endure, what the whole world endures is but for a season, Jesus will make all things right in the end, this is our sure hope in the Lord.
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babychrist
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I'm not quite sure what you're asking. Could you maybe rephrase your question?
In as much as I understand your question, no I'm not saying 'freewill' is the same as 'wants'. In regards to it's essence, 'will' is not the same as 'freewill'.
BC
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counselors have specualted but since she doesnt have any memory of such so that is all it can be. my theory on it is, people dont get to choose there attractions, diseases, ailments etc. but they can say this is my cross to bare and I can choose not to act on it if it hurts someone else or is a sin in Gods eyes. but as far as mental disorders go I do not see how God did not give us those things he gave people clef palets ( i dont know if spelling is right ) i dont see how he didnt give us mental disorders how can that be mans sinful nature. That is like saying that little girl choose her attractions. God lets everything be for a reason right. So isnt he involved in it. I mean he created me so he created my o.c.d right. He created that little girl so he created her attractions right. Even if they didnt exist at birth doesnt he allow it, choose what crosses we have to bare.
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I am not saying God is evil. I am just saying that I do not understand how it is a persons choice to have attractions that are not normal and they dispise or it is a persons choice to be mentally ill or how God did not at least set it in motion since he has ultimate control. He does right?
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SoldierOfSoul
Senior Veteran
First of all those are two completely different things morally: Homosexuality is sin. Mental illness is not a sin.
Someone may have homosexual attractions for a season and this (in my opinion) is NOT sin but the person who acts on those attractions commits sin. Although the attraction itself is a perversion of the original intent of creation it is not sin unless acted on and conceived in thought or a physical act. The bible makes clear that we are drawn to these sins because of our sinful NATURE (our heart is evil) and the devil tempts us when he knows our weaknesses in the flesh (for some this is homosexuality, for others idolatry and yet some pornography).
"but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed." (James 1:14)
But mental illness is not something we can choose, it is something we are born with, so your contrasting examples are not theologically correct. The bible says God is not the author of evil, if He puts something in our life that is hard to live with it was meant to be for our eternal good, but saying that God puts sin in a persons life is not biblical, it is blasphemy:
"When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone" (James 1:13)
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so if someone has attractions whether gay or pedophilic it is not sin unless they act. what about lust of any kind heterosexual, homosexual or pedophilic isnt it all a sin. What about doubting his existance I did not choose this. That little girl did not choose her issues. They people I know didnt choose to be gay. Is he just going to send people to hell for things they did not choose I dont get it. People are wired wrong through no fault of there own. If they are attracted to the same sex they are going to be drawn to look at them even if they choose not to act. How can that be there fault. A straight man looks at a girls butt while she is walking away but it is okay because he is wired that way but a man looks at another mans butt when he walks away because he is wired that way and it is not okay. I am not saying they should act but these same two people lust but only one is a sinner?
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SoldierOfSoul
Senior Veteran
Both examples would be sin.
I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying raven.
You must realize that humanity is a fallen race doomed to everlasting punishment, we are a grossly evil and perverse race capable of horrible evil. God did not WANT it this way, but He did ALLOW the possibility of creation to choose against Him. Why? I don't know, but what I do know is that He died to save us from this state, the cross is enough for me, Jesus proves God is on our side.
I know what I said is a little off topic but you are not understanding the predicament of humanity: we sin, because we are born with a sinful nature and this sinful nature desires the forbidden (some desire may be more perverse then others but all is sin). Lusting after a woman who is not your wife is sin just like homosexuality is sin. I'm not going to get into a discussion about which sins are worse then others...I will just say that Christ died for ALL sin and whatever we have gone through in this evil world, even at a young age...His grace is greater still and He will give us a new heart if we submit to Him (this goes for gays as well as straight).
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!!!!!MIGHT SPIKE!!!!!!!!
okay I am not even going to lie anymore that little girl is me and I am also gay but not practicing. I have been this way since I was 8. I have been to over 20 therapists. Tried at least 25 different meds. been through electric shock. Tried to shoot myself and begged to be locked up. I am a good mother and I help animals as for a living but I am bad raven because I have issues and good raven. I just do not understand why this has to be my life and now as if those stuggles arent enough I have doubt about God existing and worry evryday there is no heaven and I am going to be sent to hell for doubting and having attractions I didnt choose and the fear I wont see my little girl when I die because we just end. Dont get me wrong I am glad I am alive and I will never give up and say I do not believe in God at all but I dont understand why I will be sent to hell when I didnt choose any of this.
okay I am not even going to lie anymore that little girl is me and I am also gay but not practicing. I have been this way since I was 8. I have been to over 20 therapists. Tried at least 25 different meds. been through electric shock. Tried to shoot myself and begged to be locked up. I am a good mother and I help animals as for a living but I am bad raven because I have issues and good raven. I just do not understand why this has to be my life and now as if those stuggles arent enough I have doubt about God existing and worry evryday there is no heaven and I am going to be sent to hell for doubting and having attractions I didnt choose and the fear I wont see my little girl when I die because we just end. Dont get me wrong I am glad I am alive and I will never give up and say I do not believe in God at all but I dont understand why I will be sent to hell when I didnt choose any of this.
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SoldierOfSoul
Senior Veteran
I'm sorry for your struggles raven1 and I understand more then you realize. God does love you though raven and you do not have to be bad raven anymore. Jesus has taken that nature and crucified it on the cross.
We are born with a evil heart and sin has distorted innocence in humanity...I'm struggling with what to say to you raven...I want to be honest but I don't want to offend you, so please take what I say in love.
Life is very confusing sometimes and many things we do not understand...the questions that arise in life like "Why God why!?" will always be there until we submit our knowledge, will and understanding to the Lord there is no foundation for faith to grow.
We are sinners raven, not only in practice but from birth, we were born with a nature that was predisposed to and weak to sin. Our hearts are evil...we know this because the word of God says so, we must trust His word in this matter or we make Him a liar in our hearts and refuse His salvation that we need.
Think of it this way: How did you come to know of sin? Who created this knowledge of right and wrong in our minds called conscience? If we try and use evil as an excuse (whether in us or in the world) to disbelieve in God we are in essence denying God because of His goodness.
We know right from wrong because God has given us this capacity, the problem arises when we recognise that even from a young age this capacity was limited and easily yielded to what we knew was wrong but still did it anyway.
I'm not saying you were guilty of sin when you were a little girl, I'm just saying that your nature had a slant to want to commit evil because of your evil heart. This is not you alone, this is all of mankind, we are all in the same position of hopelessness against sin and evil in our lives until we are born again through faith in Jesus Christ.
He bore our sin by becoming sin for us, He took on our human nature and still was without sin...He was tempted (the bible says) in every way we are but still without sin. He does not leave us alone to fight a battle we cannot win, He came to give us life and that more abundantly, He came to set us free from our sinful nature and to make us slaves of righteousness. He is not your enemy, He is your God and He loves you now and forever.
One of my favorite verses:
"For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly." (Romans 5:6)
We are the ungodly (the opposite of God) and Jesus died for us even when we were weak.
In love, SoS
We are born with a evil heart and sin has distorted innocence in humanity...I'm struggling with what to say to you raven...I want to be honest but I don't want to offend you, so please take what I say in love.
Life is very confusing sometimes and many things we do not understand...the questions that arise in life like "Why God why!?" will always be there until we submit our knowledge, will and understanding to the Lord there is no foundation for faith to grow.
We are sinners raven, not only in practice but from birth, we were born with a nature that was predisposed to and weak to sin. Our hearts are evil...we know this because the word of God says so, we must trust His word in this matter or we make Him a liar in our hearts and refuse His salvation that we need.
Think of it this way: How did you come to know of sin? Who created this knowledge of right and wrong in our minds called conscience? If we try and use evil as an excuse (whether in us or in the world) to disbelieve in God we are in essence denying God because of His goodness.
We know right from wrong because God has given us this capacity, the problem arises when we recognise that even from a young age this capacity was limited and easily yielded to what we knew was wrong but still did it anyway.
I'm not saying you were guilty of sin when you were a little girl, I'm just saying that your nature had a slant to want to commit evil because of your evil heart. This is not you alone, this is all of mankind, we are all in the same position of hopelessness against sin and evil in our lives until we are born again through faith in Jesus Christ.
He bore our sin by becoming sin for us, He took on our human nature and still was without sin...He was tempted (the bible says) in every way we are but still without sin. He does not leave us alone to fight a battle we cannot win, He came to give us life and that more abundantly, He came to set us free from our sinful nature and to make us slaves of righteousness. He is not your enemy, He is your God and He loves you now and forever.
One of my favorite verses:
"For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly." (Romans 5:6)
We are the ungodly (the opposite of God) and Jesus died for us even when we were weak.
In love, SoS
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