Did Ellen White agree with scripture? Or did she add to & contradicted Herslef?

[YeshuamySalvation]

Yeshua My Salvation > There are many case where we find Ellen White either #1 adding to the bible # 2 contradicting it, & # 3 Contradicting herself.

Take for instance her statement on Patriarchs & Prophetes pg. 45, were she claims that Adam's height was much greater than that of men who now inhabit the earth. This is an addition not found anywere in scripture... I always woundered why Moses failed to write this in the book of Genesis? Did the L-rd fail to reveal this to Moses? Did he have to wait much over 2,000 years to reveal it to some modern day prophetess? Who in the world gave Ellen White the authority to add to Moses writings when the Torah is complete as scripture clearly indicates.....

In Patriarchs & Prophetes pg 74, she claims that it was " Through an angel messenger that the divine warning was conveyed.. However the bible tells us that it was G-d himself and it does not indicate that any angel messanger was present.. Gen 4: 6 -16 6 ¶ And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

8 ¶ And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

9 ¶ And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?

10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;

12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

13 ¶ And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

16 ¶ And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

Now who gave Ellen White the rights to add to Torah what is not there? there is nothing in the above scriptures that would indicate that an angel messanger was present as Ellen White would have people believe. We got to chose what to believe, either Ellen White or scripture, we cannot believe both because both do not agree.


Yeshua My Salvation > In pg 354 of Patriarchs & Prophetes she claims that the high priest [Cohen Gadol] took blood to the holy place of the santuary on a daily bases.. However the bible says that blood was never taken into the holy place... Not when a priest sinned, note please it was sprinkled before the veil [Lev 4: 3 -12].

Not when the community sinned, also sprinkled before the viel [Lev 4: 13 - 21].

Not when a leader sinned [Lev 4: 22 - 26] neither was it taken to the holy place when a person sinned [Lev 4: 27 - 35].

Notice that Ellen White clearly contradicted Torah when she claims that the sins of the people were "transferred" in figure to the Holy Place of the 'santuary' daily through the blood of the offering. The bible does not give us the slightest hint that this happens.

Yeshua My Salvation > In pg 645 Desire of Ages she says that when The constraining power of that love was felt by Judas. When the Saviour's hands were bathing those soiled feet, and wiping them with the towel, the heart of Judas thrilled through and through with the impulse then and there to confess his sin.

The bible does not record any such event as Judas wanting to confess his sins after recieving a foot wash a from the saviour, and later on hardening his heart against repentense as she stated.. My question is why did the gospel writers not see any of this? Does she also have the authority to add to what the gospel writers all ready wrote by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?


Yeshua My Salvation > In Desire of Ages pg 722 She claims that Judas Ascariots body was devoured by some phsycotic dogs.. However scripture does not say that any dogs were present.. Ellen White added to Acts 1: 18 What is not found, the bible does not record any crazy dogs feasting on Judas body.

Ellen White > In falling, his body had been horribly mangled, and dogs were now devouring it.


Yeshua My Salvation > And finally i'll leave it at this [FOR NOW] Great Contravercy pg 640.

Ellen White > [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The voice of God is heard from heaven, declaring the day and hour of Jesus' coming, and delivering the everlasting covenant to His people. Like peals of loudest thunder His words roll through the earth. The Israel of God stand listening, with their eyes fixed upward. Their countenances are lighted up with His glory, and shine as did the face of Moses when he came down from Sinai. The wicked cannot look upon them. And when the blessing is pronounced on those who have honored God by keeping His Sabbath holy, there is a mighty shout of victory.

[/FONT]Ellen White >[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Early writings pg 15, soon we heard the voice of God like many waters, which gave us the day and hour of Jesus coming. Also pages 34 & 285 of early writings.

[/FONT]Yeshua My Salvation >[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Matt 24:[/FONT]36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Matt 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

 

[woobadooba]

Yeshua My Salvation > There are many case where we find Ellen White either #1 adding to the bible # 2 contradicting it, & # 3 Contradicting herself.

Take for instance her statement on Patriarchs & Prophetes pg. 45, were she claims that Adam's height was much greater than that of men who now inhabit the earth. This is an addition not found anywere in scripture... I always woundered why Moses failed to write this in the book of Genesis? Did the L-rd fail to reveal this to Moses? Did he have to wait much over 2,000 years to reveal it to some modern day prophetess? Who in the world gave Ellen White the authority to add to Moses writings when the Torah is complete as scripture clearly indicates.....

In Patriarchs & Prophetes pg 74, she claims that it was " Through an angel messenger that the divine warning was conveyed.. However the bible tells us that it was G-d himself and it does not indicate that any angel messanger was present.. Gen 4: 6 -16 6 ¶ And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

8 ¶ And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

9 ¶ And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?

10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;

12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

13 ¶ And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

16 ¶ And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

Now who gave Ellen White the rights to add to Torah what is not there? there is nothing in the above scriptures that would indicate that an angel messanger was present as Ellen White would have people believe. We got to chose what to believe, either Ellen White or scripture, we cannot believe both because both do not agree.


Yeshua My Salvation > In pg 354 of Patriarchs & Prophetes she claims that the high priest [Cohen Gadol] took blood to the holy place of the santuary on a daily bases.. However the bible says that blood was never taken into the holy place... Not when a priest sinned, note please it was sprinkled before the veil [Lev 4: 3 -12].

Not when the community sinned, also sprinkled before the viel [Lev 4: 13 - 21].

Not when a leader sinned [Lev 4: 22 - 26] neither was it taken to the holy place when a person sinned [Lev 4: 27 - 35].

Notice that Ellen White clearly contradicted Torah when she claims that the sins of the people were "transferred" in figure to the Holy Place of the 'santuary' daily through the blood of the offering. The bible does not give us the slightest hint that this happens.

Yeshua My Salvation > In pg 645 Desire of Ages she says that when The constraining power of that love was felt by Judas. When the Saviour's hands were bathing those soiled feet, and wiping them with the towel, the heart of Judas thrilled through and through with the impulse then and there to confess his sin.

The bible does not record any such event as Judas wanting to confess his sins after recieving a foot wash a from the saviour, and later on hardening his heart against repentense as she stated.. My question is why did the gospel writers not see any of this? Does she also have the authority to add to what the gospel writers all ready wrote by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?


Yeshua My Salvation > In Desire of Ages pg 722 She claims that Judas Ascariots body was devoured by some phsycotic dogs.. However scripture does not say that any dogs were present.. Ellen White added to Acts 1: 18 What is not found, the bible does not record any crazy dogs feasting on Judas body.

Ellen White > In falling, his body had been horribly mangled, and dogs were now devouring it.


Yeshua My Salvation > And finally i'll leave it at this [FOR NOW] Great Contravercy pg 640.

Ellen White > [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The voice of God is heard from heaven, declaring the day and hour of Jesus' coming, and delivering the everlasting covenant to His people. Like peals of loudest thunder His words roll through the earth. The Israel of God stand listening, with their eyes fixed upward. Their countenances are lighted up with His glory, and shine as did the face of Moses when he came down from Sinai. The wicked cannot look upon them. And when the blessing is pronounced on those who have honored God by keeping His Sabbath holy, there is a mighty shout of victory.

[/FONT]Ellen White >[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Early writings pg 15, soon we heard the voice of God like many waters, which gave us the day and hour of Jesus coming. Also pages 34 & 285 of early writings.

[/FONT]Yeshua My Salvation >[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Matt 24:[/FONT]36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Matt 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Since we do not have a mod in here anymore I will take it upon myself to remind you of the rules.

Only SDAs are allowed to debate in this forum.

If you want to ask a question, then so be it. But as a non-SDA you are violating the rules of this forum by posting things like this.

Please refrain from doing this.

It is a marvel to me that so many professed Christians
bring so much hatred into our forum. Why not bring something positive into it?

 

[YeshuamySalvation]

Since we do not have a mod in here anymore I will take it upon myself to remind you of the rules.

Only SDAs are allowed to debate in this forum.

So, i still attend an S.D.A church [Seldom], and still am a member of the church.

If you want to ask a question, then so be it. But as a non-SDA you are violating the rules of this forum by posting things like this.

I don't need to ask questions on S.D.A belifes.. I already know what S.D.A.S believe and what Ellen White teaches.. I have a whole collection of her books and believe me i read them.

Please refrain from doing this.

It is a marvel to me that so many professed Christians

I'm not a professed Christian, i'm an ex S.D.A none Christian Jew that believes in the Messiah.

bring so much hatred into our forum. Why not bring something positive into it?

It is something very positive to bring up good arguments concerning Ellen Whites writings, if Adventist continue to insist that she is a true prophet i must put her through the biblical test to see if she passes it.. So far all she has done is fail the test of a true prophet of God.. No hatred brother, all i want is answeres [NOW]!!! Why do Adventist continue to insist that she is a true prophet when there is so many contradictions in her writings? I'm not trying to offend anyone, i'm just being a berean studious of God Word and not taking her word but searching scripture for myself to see if what she says is so.

 

[woobadooba]

So, i still attend an S.D.A church [Seldom], and still am a member of the church.

I don't need to ask questions on S.D.A belifes.. I already know what S.D.A.S believe and what Ellen White teaches.. I have a whole collection of her books and believe me i read them.

I'm not a professed Christian, i'm an ex S.D.A none Christian Jew that believes in the Messiah.

It is something very positive to bring up good arguments concerning Ellen Whites writings, if Adventist continue to insist that she is a true prophet i must put her through the biblical test to see if she passes it.. So far all she has done is fail the test of a true prophet of God.. No hatred brother, all i want is answeres [NOW]!!! Why do Adventist continue to insist that she is a true prophet when there is so many contradictions in her writings? I'm not trying to offend anyone, i'm just being a berean studious of God Word and not taking her word but searching scripture for myself to see if what she says is so.

Perhaps this website will clear some matters up for you:

http://www.ellen-white.com/

 

[Cliff2]

Perhaps this website will clear some matters up for you:

http://www.ellen-white.com/

I am yet to go into any of the links but the titles at least look interesting.

Thanks for that link.

 

[YeshuamySalvation]

Perhaps this website will clear some matters up for you:

http://www.ellen-white.com/

Yeshua My Salvation > Ok here are some of the issues at hand!!!

1. WAS THE PLAN OF SALVATION MADE AFTER THE FALL?


EGW: YES "The kingdom of grace was instituted immediately after the fall of man, when a plan was devised for the redemption of the guilty race" (Great Controversy, p. 347).


BIBLE: NO "For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you
were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the
precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake" (1 Peter 1:18-20).

BIBLE: NO "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in
his sight" (Ephesians 1:4).

S.D.A.S > Here D&D quote Ellen White saying that the "kingdom of grace" was instituted and the plan was "devised" immediately after the fall. What they failed to quote was Ellen White's statements that the plan had actually existed long before that (see Desire of Ages, p. 22, third paragraph in particular):

I understand that, and ive read it for myself, but because she got it right in the [Desire Of Ages pg. 22] does not mean she didn't get it wrong on the [Great Contro pg. 347], this is exactly why she contradicts herself as i mentioned earlier. The bible does not indicate that the kingdom of grace was instituted after the fall of man along with a plan to "reedem" the guilty race, but rather from "eternity" before the foundation of the world. This is a clear contradiction, and the best these commentators can do is say that she got it right on [pg. 21 Desire of Ages] while ignoring that she got it wrong in pg. 347 Great Contro.

S.D.A.S >"The plan for our redemption was not an afterthought, a plan formulated after the fall of Adam..." And this statement in the same book, p. 147: "...every act of Christ's life on earth was in fulfillment of the plan that had existed from the days of eternity." There are numerous statements like this in her writings. To get a balanced view of what Ellen White really said about this issue (and in its proper context) we recommend the chapter entitled "The Plan of Redemption" in the book Patriarchs and Prophets. The Bible has several texts like the ones listed above placing the Plan of Salvation before the creation of the world, but Revelation 13:8 is a bit ambiguous and says that Jesus was slain at the foundation of the world not before (KJV, NKJV, NIV, AMP, Weymouth, Young's, LTV). Technically Christ was slain "from the days of eternity" was He not? Did the prophet John make a mistake? No. The plan had to go into effect at the Fall of Adam and Eve, but when did Infinite Wisdom foresee sin and the need for a Savior? From the days of eternity, of course.
(Some may point out that some versions of the Bible use "the foundation of the world" to refer to when the Lamb's Book was written as opposed to when the Lamb was slain. However, the majority of the Bible scholars who put together the English Bible translations did not come to this conclusion. Of the major Bible versions King James, New King James, NIV, AMP, Weymouth, Young's, and LTV (Green) all point to "slain;" (the NIV says in the margin that it could be written the other way, and the AMP renders it both ways in the text itself). NASB has it pointing to the "Book," with the margin stating that it could be referring to "slain." The RSV and Darby do word it so that the "foundation" is referring to the writing in the Lamb's Book. Yet even without this text, Ellen White's statements don't contradict anything the Bible says in this regard. She agreed that the plan had been in existence from "the days of eternity.")

The problem here has nothing to do with Ellen White, but with our finite minds trying to grasp how a God who knows the future ever "plans" anything and when? After all, no matter what He does, He already knew He was going to do it, so when did He really decide to do anything? God's ways are "past finding out." (Job 9:10) This infinite subject is too much for the human mind. We're talking about Omniscience here. There are many examples in the Bible where God does something, and it seems it is not what He had originally "planned" to do. For just a small sample:
— Casting Satan out of heaven (Rev. 12:7-9). (When was that plan "devised"?)
— God Rejecting King Saul (1 Sam. 16:1)
— The plan in heaven as to how to get King Ahab to perish at Ramothgilead (1 Kings 22:19-22).
— God deciding not to do what He originally planned to do to the evil man or nation that repents (Jer. 26:3; 18:8).
— God deciding to answer the prayers of those who persevere in their petitions (Luke 18:7,8; 11:5-9).
— God deciding to destroy the earth with a flood (Gen. 6:6).
— God allowing King Hezekiah to live an additional 15 years after telling him he was about to die (2 Kings 20:1-6).
Now, when were these plans "devised"? God knew "from the days of eternity" exactly what He was going to do, and when He would do it. It is hard for us to understand how God can "make" any plans while already knowing the future perfectly. This is not a contradiction at all, but rather a subject that simply cannot be explained by (or to) mere human beings.

Here we have the commentators trying to confuse the issue by raising an argument about our finit minds not quite understanding the things of G-d, while hoping that people would forget that there is none the less a contradiction after all in Ellen Whites assertion that the kingdom of grace was something that was instituted at the fall of man along with a plan to reedem mankind.. They also asserted that we don't quite understand when Yeshua was slain was it before the creation of the world or at the foundation of the world? They quote Revelation 13:8 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Heres Revelation 13:8 in it's orginal word by word:


kai proskunhsousin autw panteV oi katoikounteV epi thV ghV wn ou gegraptai ta onomata en th biblw thV zwhV tou arniou esfagmenou apo katabolhV kosmou


Revelation 13:8 is extremly metaphorical, Yeshua was not slain literally at the foundation of the world, there is no white, red, black, or pale horses in heaven with fighters riding them. There are no disimbodyed souls of martyrs in heaven squeezed in the base of an altar pleading God to avenge there blood. [Rev 6:9] .. Yeshua does not appear in heaven in the form of a lamb [Rev.5:6].

But through the metaphorical and symbolic language as shown in the book of [Rev] we understand that the Savoiur was dead from the foundation of the world.
That is why he was chosen before the creation of the world because God already knew before hand that men would transgress.

The kingdom of grace was not something that was instituted at the fall as Ellen White stated, that would be to contradict 1Peter 1:18-20. God almighty was not taken by surprise when Adam and Eve sinned, he already knew that would happen, so he instituted the kingdom of grace before the foundation of the world, no plan was devised immediately after the fall of men but much before.

 

[woobadooba]

Yeshua My Salvation > Ok here are some of the issues at hand!!!

1. WAS THE PLAN OF SALVATION MADE AFTER THE FALL?


EGW: YES "The kingdom of grace was instituted immediately after the fall of man, when a plan was devised for the redemption of the guilty race" (Great Controversy, p. 347).


BIBLE: NO "For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you
were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the
precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake" (1 Peter 1:18-20).

BIBLE: NO "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in
his sight" (Ephesians 1:4).



I understand that, and ive read it for myself, but because she got it right in the [Desire Of Ages pg. 22] does not mean she didn't get it wrong on the [Great Contro pg. 347], this is exactly why she contradicts herself as i mentioned earlier. The bible does not indicate that the kingdom of grace was instituted after the fall of man along with a plan to "reedem" the guilty race, but rather from "eternity" before the foundation of the world. This is a clear contradiction, and the best these commentators can do is say that she got it right on [pg. 21 Desire of Ages] while ignoring that she got it wrong in pg. 347 Great Contro.


Here we have the commentators trying to confuse the issue by raising an argument about our finit minds not quite understanding the things of G-d, while hoping that people would forget that there is none the less a contradiction after all in Ellen Whites assertion that the kingdom of grace was something that was instituted at the fall of man along with a plan to reedem mankind.. They also asserted that we don't quite understand when Yeshua was slain was it before the creation of the world or at the foundation of the world? They quote Revelation 13:8 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Heres Revelation 13:8 in it's orginal word by word:


kai proskunhsousin autw panteV oi katoikounteV epi thV ghV wn ou gegraptai ta onomata en th biblw thV zwhV tou arniou esfagmenou apo katabolhV kosmou


Revelation 13:8 is extremly metaphorical, Yeshua was not slain literally at the foundation of the world, there is no white, red, black, or pale horses in heaven with fighters riding them. There are no disimbodyed souls of martyrs in heaven squeezed in the base of an altar pleading God to avenge there blood. [Rev 6:9] .. Yeshua does not appear in heaven in the form of a lamb [Rev.5:6].

But through the metaphorical and symbolic language as shown in the book of [Rev] we understand that the Savoiur was dead from the foundation of the world.
That is why he was chosen before the creation of the world because God already knew before hand that men would transgress.

The kingdom of grace was not something that was instituted at the fall as Ellen White stated, that would be to contradict 1Peter 1:18-20. God almighty was not taken by surprise when Adam and Eve sinned, he already knew that would happen, so he instituted the kingdom of grace before the foundation of the world, no plan was devised immediately after the fall of men but much before.

Honestly, I am not The Defender of Ellen White. In fact, I don't even agree with some of the things she had said.

However, from what I've seen, a lot of people take her thoughts out of context, and assume that she meant something that she never intended to convey.

In any case, I am an SDA not because of what she said, but because of what I have seen in the Bible, and this church in my opinion is closer to the truth than every other church out there.

 

[OntheDL]

Yeshua My Salvation > Ok here are some of the issues at hand!!!

1. WAS THE PLAN OF SALVATION MADE AFTER THE FALL?


EGW: YES "The kingdom of grace was instituted immediately after the fall of man, when a plan was devised for the redemption of the guilty race" (Great Controversy, p. 347).


BIBLE: NO "For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you
were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the
precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake" (1 Peter 1:18-20).

BIBLE: NO "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in
his sight" (Ephesians 1:4).



I understand that, and ive read it for myself, but because she got it right in the [Desire Of Ages pg. 22] does not mean she didn't get it wrong on the [Great Contro pg. 347], this is exactly why she contradicts herself as i mentioned earlier. The bible does not indicate that the kingdom of grace was instituted after the fall of man along with a plan to "reedem" the guilty race, but rather from "eternity" before the foundation of the world. This is a clear contradiction, and the best these commentators can do is say that she got it right on [pg. 21 Desire of Ages] while ignoring that she got it wrong in pg. 347 Great Contro.


Here we have the commentators trying to confuse the issue by raising an argument about our finit minds not quite understanding the things of G-d, while hoping that people would forget that there is none the less a contradiction after all in Ellen Whites assertion that the kingdom of grace was something that was instituted at the fall of man along with a plan to reedem mankind.. They also asserted that we don't quite understand when Yeshua was slain was it before the creation of the world or at the foundation of the world? They quote Revelation 13:8 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Heres Revelation 13:8 in it's orginal word by word:


kai proskunhsousin autw panteV oi katoikounteV epi thV ghV wn ou gegraptai ta onomata en th biblw thV zwhV tou arniou esfagmenou apo katabolhV kosmou


Revelation 13:8 is extremly metaphorical, Yeshua was not slain literally at the foundation of the world, there is no white, red, black, or pale horses in heaven with fighters riding them. There are no disimbodyed souls of martyrs in heaven squeezed in the base of an altar pleading God to avenge there blood. [Rev 6:9] .. Yeshua does not appear in heaven in the form of a lamb [Rev.5:6].

But through the metaphorical and symbolic language as shown in the book of [Rev] we understand that the Savoiur was dead from the foundation of the world.
That is why he was chosen before the creation of the world because God already knew before hand that men would transgress.

The kingdom of grace was not something that was instituted at the fall as Ellen White stated, that would be to contradict 1Peter 1:18-20. God almighty was not taken by surprise when Adam and Eve sinned, he already knew that would happen, so he instituted the kingdom of grace before the foundation of the world, no plan was devised immediately after the fall of men but much before.

Please refrain from posting here. Your post is neither questions nor fellowships. You have proved time after time you're not open to reasoning. You don't see me go over there to MJ forum and post about how Talmud blasphemed Jesus. I'm sure if I did, the post will be prompted removed. So I'm asking you to show some self-respect and stay in Messianic Judaism forum.

 

[woobadooba]

So I'm asking you to show some self-respect and stay in Messianic Judaism forum.

He is welcomed here as long as he doesn't violate the rules of the forum.

Of course, he hasn't shown much respect for the rules thus far.

 

[OntheDL]

He is welcomed here as long as he doesn't violate the rules of the forum.

Of course, he hasn't shown much respect for the rules thus far.

That's the problem.

Anyone is welcome to come here and state their opinions. But please remember to respect others and their believes.

 

[YeshuamySalvation]

Please refrain from posting here. Your post is neither questions nor fellowships. You have proved time after time you're not open to reasoning.

Actually is quite the opposite, i dont need to ask questions on what Seventh day Adventist believe, I ALREADY KNOW WHAT THEY TEACH AND BELIEVE... I'm very opened to reasoning, what i'm not open to is attacks against scripture, i'm basically here to defend the word of God and compare it to Ellen White writings. Hence you should be proud that my attempt is to defend scripture from people who openly attack it.

You don't see me go over there to MJ forum and post about how Talmud blasphemed Jesus. I'm sure if I did, the post will be prompted removed. So I'm asking you to show some self-respect and stay in Messianic Judaism forum.

You neither understand Hebraic roots nor the language nor anything for that matter.. Over and over you shown me your lack of reasoning when confronted with what the orginal says as opposed to what your king James version says, you chose to hold on to what your king James version says because {YOU THINK} it seems to support what your prophete says.. Your attempt is not to defend scripture but to defend a so called prophete over scripture.. [I am not here to attack scripture] if it was like that then i would agree that all my posts should be removed... All i'm doing is putting a prophete through the biblical test as the Jewish bereans did when Paul preached, they certainly did not take Pauls word for it but seacrched the scritures daily to see if what Paul was saying was so [Act. 17:10 - 13] , they did some major scrutinizing, the difference is that Paul does not contradict himself and scripture as opposed to Ellen White.. And finally my attempt is not to defend a denomination nor the Talmud for that matter, all true believers either Jew or Gentile should be grafted into Israel that is what keeps us united as believers. I dont defend neither the rabbinical teachings nor Ellen Whites, i defend scripture period!!

 

[OntheDL]

Actually is quite the opposite, i dont need to ask questions on what Seventh day Adventist believe, I ALREADY KNOW WHAT THEY TEACH AND BELIEVE... I'm very opened to reasoning, what i'm not open to is attacks against scripture, i'm basically here to defend the word of God and compare it to Ellen White writings. Hence you should be proud that my attempt is to defend scripture from people who openly attack it.

No. You don't. If you really knew about the SDA doctrines, you'd have been one. But you really are not.

You neither understand Hebraic roots nor the language nor anything for that matter...

How do you know? I've never posted on those subjects there.

Over and over you shown me your lack of reasoning when confronted with what the orginal says as opposed to what your king James version says, you chose to hold on to what your king James version says because {YOU THINK}

So you are saying the Syriac Pershitta the "supposed" Babylonian Aramaic NT text is supperior to NT majority text which was written in a language that has the same alphabets and probably pronounced similiarly to the Paleo-Hebrew?
Typical messianic mindset.

it seems to support what your prophete says.. Your attempt is not to defend scripture but to defend a so called prophete over scripture.. [I am not here to attack scripture] if it was like that then i would agree that all my posts should be removed... All i'm doing is putting a prophete through the biblical test as the Jewish bereans did when Paul preached, they certainly did not take Pauls word for it but seacrched the scritures daily to see if what Paul was saying was so [Act. 17:10 - 13] , they did some major scrutinizing, the difference is that Paul does not contradict himself and scripture as opposed to Ellen White...

But you are still attacking our believes. Didn't forum rules say that? And you can only post questions and fellowships? We even extend you the courtesy of making comments. But if we don't agree, why can't you just drop it and comply with the basic common courtesy? Heard what you had to say. But don't agree. Lets move on please.

And finally my attempt is not to defend a denomination nor the Talmud for that matter, all true believers either Jew or Gentile should be grafted into Israel that is what keeps us united as believers. I dont defend neither the rabbinical teachings nor Ellen Whites, i defend scripture period!!

Thank you. But that's not what this forum is for...to debate with you over if what we believe is biblical.

 

[NewMan99]

MOD HAT ON​

This is a Congregation Forum and as such no debate is permitted. If you want to debate someone from another faith/congregation then you must do so in those forums that allow for such activities, such as General Theology. Please go to General Theology if you want to engage in debate.​

Thank you.​

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[YeshuamySalvation]

No. You don't. If you really knew about the SDA doctrines, you'd have been one. But you really are not.

Not so, S.D.A.S authority is Ellen White mine is scripture the two dont agree SORRY!!

How do you know? I've never posted on those subjects there.

We have posted on that many times and the best answeres you can provide on pure biblical fact from its orginal manuscripts, is that your right just because your right..

So you are saying the Syriac Pershitta the "supposed" Babylonian Aramaic NT text is supperior to NT majority text which was written in a language that has the same alphabets and probably pronounced similiarly to the Paleo-Hebrew?
Typical messianic mindset.

I challenge you to prove that anything that I said even implied any such thing. You invent strawmen to avoid addressing the actual point. The point is that Ellen White repeatedly fails the biblical test of a prophetess of God, and you have failed once more to provid any anweres other then trying to cloud the issue by bring up false nonsequiturs arguments, all in an attempt to create a smokes screen to confuse the points that i made in which you have no answeres for. Very typical of Seventh day Adventist!!

But you are still attacking our believes. Didn't forum rules say that? And you can only post questions and fellowships? We even extend you the courtesy of making comments. But if we don't agree, why can't you just drop it and comply with the basic common courtesy? Heard what you had to say. But don't agree. Lets move on please.

Well you are choosing to disagree with pure facts in which again you have no answeres for.

Thank you. But that's not what this forum is for...to debate with you over if what we believe is biblical.

Well i believe it's ok since i recently left the S.D.A church. I dont want to offend anyone nor debate, believe me i'm trying to do this in a good spirit.

 

[ttreg]

i know its too late and im breaking the rule myself but:the rules say that if a thread is made that is breaking a rule u arent suppose to respond just use the report button

 

[YeshuamySalvation]

i know its too late and im breaking the rule myself but:the rules say that if a thread is made that is breaking a rule u arent suppose to respond just use the report button

I understand ttreg, but my point is that i'm not doing anything wrong, i just recently left the S.D.A church for good and all i'm doing is testing the validity of a so called prophetess.. Isa 8:20 Says > 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

I noticed that Adventist love to pick and choose from her writings but even Ellen White herself does not give them that right, she says this "work" is either from God or from the devil.

"This work is of God, or it is not, God does nothing in partnership with Satan. My work . . .bears the stamp of God or the stamp of the enemy. There is no halfway work in the matter. The Testimonies are of the Spirit of God or of the devil." —Testimonies, Vol. 4, p. 230.

If Adventist do feel that her works do proceed from God then they should be able to provide people here with some answeres along with scriptural support for there claims that she is a true "prophetess."

Every time someone brings up a good point concerning Ellen Whites contradictions of scripture and herself, people want to act with cockiness and shrug it off instead of providing others with answeres as to why they believe she was truely lead by God though she made so many mistakes in her writings as ive shown on my first post.

 

[NewMan99]

MOD HAT ON​

YeshuamySalvation, you are breaking the rules. This is NOT a debate forum. If you have a desire to challenge SDA theology (which is precisely what you are trying to do here) then you MUST do so in a forum that permits debate (such as General Theology). Start a thread in GT if you want to. There are often times SDA members who frequent GT - and they may be willing to engage you in a discussion there. But THIS forum is not the place for a discussion of that nature.

This is the last warning I will give you. Any more debate here will result in an official action.

Thank you.

MOD HAT OFF ​

 

[djconklin]

I understand ttreg, but my point is that i'm not doing anything wrong, i just recently left the S.D.A church for good and all i'm doing is testing the validity of a so called prophetess.. Isa 8:20 Says > 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

I noticed that Adventist love to pick and choose from her writings but even Ellen White herself does not give them that right, she says this "work" is either from God or from the devil.

"This work is of God, or it is not, God does nothing in partnership with Satan. My work . . .bears the stamp of God or the stamp of the enemy. There is no halfway work in the matter. The Testimonies are of the Spirit of God or of the devil." —Testimonies, Vol. 4, p. 230.

If Adventist do feel that her works do proceed from God then they should be able to provide people here with some answeres along with scriptural support for there claims that she is a true "prophetess."

Every time someone brings up a good point concerning Ellen Whites contradictions of scripture and herself, people want to act with cockiness and shrug it off instead of providing others with answeres as to why they believe she was truely lead by God though she made so many mistakes in her writings as ive shown on my first post.

Anyone interested in seeing how the critics have been disproven over 50 times that EGW supposedly contradicted Scripture can find out for themselves at http://www.whiteestate.org/ and type in "bible contradiction" in the box above "Search Site".

 

[Sunrunner]

I wasn't aware that this was a debate forum.

 

[djconklin]

It's not supposed to be.