Akita Suggagaki
Well-Known Member
- Jul 20, 2018
- 10,448
- 7,492
- 70
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
There is a New Covenant. We are grafted into Christ.You keep saying this, despite scripture showing Gentiles are grafted into the Covenant Promise. I would not want to write myself out of the covenant, but we have free will.
According to plain scripture God's laws are written in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant Hebrews 8:10 instead of deleting them and Jesus is the Mediator of God's New Covenant promise that Gentiles are grafted into. Galatians 3:28-29 Colossians 3:11 Romans 11:11-24.There is a New Covenant. We are grafted into Christ.
I quoted Jesus John 14:15 you said the scripture I quoted from Jesus was in conflict with Jesus Himself, so you tell me. Either Jesus means what He said John 14:15 and John, 1 John 5:3 and God Exodus 20:6 or it doesn't. I believe Jesus to say exactly what He meant just as John, and as God .I give up. . .am I?
.
Contraire. . .the Apostle Paul is very clear on the impact of the cross for Jewish Christians.Adventist are about the only ones these days want to keep some of Torah, especially the Sabbath. I think that is because the Gospels and so much of the New Testament is addressed to Jews and they read it as if addressed to gentiles.
The impact of the Cross on Torah for Jews had not yet been worked out in the NT.
You tell me, you are the one who has set him against Matthew 22:37-40 along with PaulI quoted Jesus John 14:15 you said the scripture I quoted from Jesus was in conflict with Jesus Himself, so you tell me. Either Jesus means what He said John 14:15 and John, 1 John 5:3 and God Exodus 20:6 or it doesn't. I believe Jesus to say exactly what He meant just as John, and as God .
Jesus said, not SB in John 14:15 who does not contradict Himself in Matthew 22:37 and Jesus very clearly says, If we love Him keep His commandments and loving Him with all our heart is demonstrated when we keep the commandments, not by our disobedience. There is nowhere in scripture where Jesus says "do not" keep the commandments, but says the opposite- keep them. I'm going with Jesus, the apostles and God. Please do not try to spin what Jesus said out of His own mouth, as something I made up, like it came from me.You tell me, you are the one who has set him against Matthew 22:37-40 along with Paul
in Romans 13:8-10.
I was referring to Jews following Christ and their relationship to OT Torah.Contraire. . .the Apostle Paul is very clear on the impact of the cross for Jewish Christians.
The impact on the Jews is quite simple:
"Whoever does not believe in the Son stands condemned already." (John 3:18)
"Whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." (John 3:26)
Any other notions regarding the Jews not in agreement with the above are contra-Biblical and untrue.
Here's the problem: You assume that being grafted into "covenant membership" entails retention of the marker of covenant membership, namely the Law of Moses. We could, of course, be grafted into covenant membership with new markers for covenant membership. And that there are indeed such new markers is all over the New Testament.You keep saying this, despite scripture showing Gentiles are grafted into the Covenant Promise. I would not want to write myself out of the covenant, but we have free will.
Jesus said, not SB in John 14:15 who does not contradict Himself in Matthew 22:37 and Jesus very clearly says, If we love Him keep His commandments and loving Him with all our heart is demonstrated when we keep the commandments, not by our disobedience. There is nowhere in scripture where Jesus says "do not" keep the commandments, but says the opposite- keep them. I'm going with Jesus, the apostles and God. Please do not try to spin what Jesus said out of His own mouth, as something I made up, like it came from me.
Agreed. . .setting Scripture against itself is never a good thing.I'm not really liking this type of dialogue, so if you continue down this path its not something I plan on participating in.
Contraire. . .the Apostle Paul is very clear on the impact of the cross for Jewish Christians.
The impact on the Jews is quite simple:
"Whoever does not believe in the Son stands condemned already." (John 3:18)
"Whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." (John 3:26)
Any other notions regarding the Jews not in agreement with the above are contra-Biblical and untrue.
The Apostle Paul is very clear on the impact of the cross for the Jewish Christians, including their relationship to the Torah.I think most of us appreciate the life and saving work of Jesus. And like the early disciples we still discuss what it all means for us as we seek to live faithful lives. After 2,000 years and many Christian traditions we can agree that "Love"
I was referring to Jews following Christ and their relationship to OT Torah.
Than stop.Agreed. . .setting Scripture against itself is never a good thing.
See Acts 15, where the contingent from Jerusalem required only circumcision, not the whole law.
Paul certainly believes the law of Moses were abolished. And, again, the fact some Jews did not believe it was abolished is certainly not evidence that it was not, in fact, abolished.
That's called reading into the Scriptures instead of reading out of the Scriptures, eisegesis instead of exegesis.Acts 15:1 says otherwise. If a male adult is willing to undergo such a painful change as physical circumcision, it is understood that he will have little issues following the rest of the Law.
That's called reading into the Scriptures instead of reading out of the Scriptures, eisegesis instead of exegesis.
It wasn't about the law, it was about the necessity of entering into the covenant of Abraham for salvation.
And?The Jewish believers who stated Acts 15:1, is quoting OT scriptures, such as Exodus 12:48-49, and Numbers 9:13-14.
They are referring to Passover.But if you want to insist they are ONLY referring to physical circumcision, alright then, we can agree to disagree as usual.
Exodus 12:48-49 related only to Passover.
Gentile converts were not required to observe Passover, but if they wished to do so, they had to be circumcised.
Numbers 9:13-14 related only to Hebrews, who were required to celebrate Passover, and without a legitimate reason for not doing so, were to be cut off from their people.
Acts 15:1 states that circumcision (the sign of the covenant) was necessary for salvation.
Well actually it states:Acts 15:1 states that circumcision (the sign of the covenant) was necessary for salvation.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?