Did Adam sin?

This question is way to simple to have had all the above written in reply. I got tired and didn't read even all that was on page one.

There is no room for "opinions" on anything that is plainly taught in God's Word. So why do we ask questions and make comments that really have no bearing on the price of tea in China ?

Romans 5:14 (KJV)
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Romans 5:12 (KJV)
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:


Does not this answer the original questions rather explicitly?

In His Service,
Jim

Catherineanne said:

I lost mine years ago. I just pretend now. : )

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When my grandson was about four or so, he heard me moaning about having lost my marbles. Next time his Mom took him to "WalkMark" (we call it Walmart) he spent his money on his Nana...he bought me two bags of marbles and a package of play money (since he'd also heard me complain about not having any money).
But there is more to the story.
I took those two bags of marbles and put them in a "catch all" basket on my kitchen table.
About a week later my next oldest daughter came to visit and as she sat at the table drinking coffee, she took one of the bags of marbles and started to play with it. As she turned it in her hands, she managed to put a hole in the bag, and the marbles started to fall out...

Which leads me to the inescapable conclusion...
The reason I keep losing my marbles is because my kids keep taking them out to play with them...

Supreme said:

Yes, Adam sinned by taking the bite from the apple, when God has explicitly told him not to. It was this disobedience to God that led to Adam being banished from Eden.

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I have never understood where that came from, an apple is a seedbearing fruit,

Gen 1:29,
And God said, "Behold, I have given you every seed bearing herb, which is upon the Surface of the entire Earth, and every tree that has seed bearing fruit, it will be yours for food

Not only did Adam sin, but he blamed God for his sin. Go back and read it. When God asked him if he ate the forbidden fruit, he said "that woman you gave me, she provided it to me, and well, yeah, I ate it... but if you hadn't given me her, I wouldn't have done it." Well, that's not verbatim what he said, but that's the gist of it. He wasn't man enough to man up and own what he'd done. So his sin, in a way, was greater than Eve's.

fatboys said:

Why would God place the tree of knowledge of good and evil for them to be tempted.

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I saw this thread in my email newsletter. Has the answer to this been suggested already? OP, I think that they were ashamed and hid themelves from God makes it pretty self evident they felt guilty of sin.

jimdykes said:

There is no room for "opinions" on anything that is plainly taught in God's Word. So why do we ask questions and make comments that really have no bearing on the price of tea in China ?

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You're in the World Religion Forum, remember? We have different ideas about what constitutes God's Word.

Sure Adam sinned. Anything done against the commandments of God is sin. God told them to not eat of the tree and they disobeyed Him and thus we are where we are. To think that God would purposefully want or push them to eat of the tree in order to bring about His grand plan makes our existence nothing more than a movie directed by God Himself. Free will would be of no consequence and all this would be just one big game. Obviously, God knew they would do this because He is omniscient, but His plan could have changed if they had obeyed His Word and not been tempted to eat the fruit of that particular tree. There is much more to this topic than can be discussed in one post, but the answer to your question is yes, Adam sinned and fell short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). Jesus bless you!

People are asking that quesaton, now? Adam saw the light covering gone that was on Eve. He heard how she talked that was different than before. He knew what happened. He fell in front of Eve like Eve fell in front of the possessed serpent.

Catherineanne said:

No.

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Rubbish.

This thread is a shambles, I'm out.

jeanetteflint said:

Well now, the whole story is ridiculous. Isn't there a better way to bring about what you want (especially if you're God?!). The punishment was horribly severe. Who does that? Even human beings don't judge people that harshly. Why would a "loving" God do so? What a plan! It pretty much stinks! If God wanted people to be mortal, why not just make them that way in the beginning, instead of "testing" his creation, which is totally stupid because he already KNEW the outcome.

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Yeah, but there is probably tons missing from the story, that which is written down.

Example,
"Now let us make man in our image."

Who is the "our?"

The angels and heavenly beings in the heavenly realms, whom He had already created.
They dissagreed, "Nah, not a good idea."

So He made man in his own image, in His own image He made man.
(The classical commentries explain that man alone is endowed-like His Creator-with reason, a sense of morality and free will.)

So fast forward, Gen 3:22,
The Lord God said "Look man has become as one of us."

Why not, "Man has become as Me."

So what,s going on over here?

fatboys said:

im asking this question because there are many who believe that Adam is a dirty dog. Here is my reasoning to why they are not and were following the plan of God. Adam and Eve were placed in the garden of Eden. They were innocent of knowledge of good and evil. Satan was allowed to tempt them and Eve partook of the fruit and gave it to Adam. I believe that Adam and Eve disobeyed Gods law to not eat the fruit. God had told them not to eat of the fruit or they would die. Since there had not yet had death enter into the garden did they understand what the consequences of their choice? Since they did not know good and evil, could Adam and Eve understood what the law was and the consequences? They did disobey and as a result death came into the world. Sin also came into the world because of imperfection. I believe that to justice it does not matter if someone disobeys having full knowledge and understanding of the law broken or if someone is innocent of the law. It is still disobedience and there are consequences that must come as a result. The punishment is the same. Logic dictates that this was Gods plan all along because why would he allow satan to tempt them? Why would God place the tree of knowledge of good and evil for them to be tempted. I believe that God wanted Adam to eat the fruit so mortality would come to this earth as well so we could know good from evil. To experience the opposites of life so we could continue to progress. So to me Adam and Eve did not sin. They did transgress Gods law which had the same punishment.

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Luv UR chain of logic !!I'm of the who cares why they got booted out into the workforce. Some Angel/cop might have caught Adam w/a sheep & his descendants were 2 ashamed 2 mention it.We'll never know the whole story about anything,so why get frustrated trying.The Bible is a guide to righteous life not an auto-repair manual w/all the variables.In the words of Al Einstein,"I seek 2 know the mind of GOD, all the rest is just details."

fatboys said:

im asking this question because there are many who believe that Adam is a dirty dog. Here is my reasoning to why they are not and were following the plan of God. Adam and Eve were placed in the garden of Eden. They were innocent of knowledge of good and evil. Satan was allowed to tempt them and Eve partook of the fruit and gave it to Adam. I believe that Adam and Eve disobeyed Gods law to not eat the fruit. God had told them not to eat of the fruit or they would die. Since there had not yet had death enter into the garden did they understand what the consequences of their choice? Since they did not know good and evil, could Adam and Eve understood what the law was and the consequences? They did disobey and as a result death came into the world. Sin also came into the world because of imperfection. I believe that to justice it does not matter if someone disobeys having full knowledge and understanding of the law broken or if someone is innocent of the law. It is still disobedience and there are consequences that must come as a result. The punishment is the same. Logic dictates that this was Gods plan all along because why would he allow satan to tempt them? Why would God place the tree of knowledge of good and evil for them to be tempted. I believe that God wanted Adam to eat the fruit so mortality would come to this earth as well so we could know good from evil. To experience the opposites of life so we could continue to progress. So to me Adam and Eve did not sin. They did transgress Gods law which had the same punishment.

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Oh but they did sin. 1John 3:4 "Everyone who commits a sin then is doing a lawless deed, for sin is lawlessness [this is also translated as without Torah].

So YES Adam did sin in breaking the Torah [law] of YHVH. And I agree many times we break laws not understanding the ramifications or consequences and reap them later whether it be physically or spiritually. But they did sin. This is a fact that can not be refuted in Scripture.

jimdykes said:

This question is way to simple to have had all the above written in reply. I got tired and didn't read even all that was on page one.

There is no room for "opinions" on anything that is plainly taught in God's Word. So why do we ask questions and make comments that really have no bearing on the price of tea in China ?

Romans 5:14 (KJV)
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Romans 5:12 (KJV)
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:


Does not this answer the original questions rather explicitly?

In His Service,
Jim

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Yes adam has sinned and so are the present Adams.

Robban said:

Yeah, but there is probably tons missing from the story, that which is written down.

Example,
"Now let us make man in our image."

Who is the "our?"

The angels and heavenly beings in the heavenly realms, whom He had already created.
They dissagreed, "Nah, not a good idea."

So He made man in his own image, in His own image He made man.
(The classical commentries explain that man alone is endowed-like His Creator-with reason, a sense of morality and free will.)

So fast forward, Gen 3:22,
The Lord God said "Look man has become as one of us."

Why not, "Man has become as Me."

So what,s going on over here?

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That is a pretty easy question to answer. Originally the bible supported multiple gods so that bit in our image it is a reference to other gods. In fact god of the bible had a wife and there are other gods but that stuff has been taken out in favor of the only one god. So when god is saying don't worship any god(s) or idols, it is pretty much hinting towards other god(s) existing. In short simple answer there is more than 1 god there is probably many gods.

And a little info on gods wife her name is Asherah. http://news.discovery.com/history/religion/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.htm

So as far as i'm concerned the bible as of now with translations the original message to its readers is lost because, passages that were apart originally are gone.

fatboys said:

im asking this question because there are many who believe that Adam is a dirty dog. Here is my reasoning to why they are not and were following the plan of God. Adam and Eve were placed in the garden of Eden. They were innocent of knowledge of good and evil.

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Adam was blameless in his ways like Lucifer was morally, but he still had self-generated free will. He was a little creator
in God's universe placed in a beautiful garden/Eden. Adam did something that I believe most all of us would have done
in the same situation. I'm troubled by your use of "innocent of knowledge of good and evil" as though Adam had no
conscience being created in God's Image. I disagree if you believe that Adam had no moral conscience to struggle
with.... when he made his decision to die with Eve.

fatboys said:

Satan was allowed to tempt them and Eve partook of the fruit and gave it to Adam.

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Some believe that satan had just fallen from heaven due partially to jealousy of what God was doing with Adam and Eve.
Clearly Lucifer had issues of pride as well... so his fall was not so monolithic.

fatboys said:

I believe that Adam and Eve disobeyed Gods law to not eat the fruit. God had told them not to eat of the fruit or they would die. Since there had not yet had death enter into the garden did they understand what the consequences of their choice?

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Yet God had told them that they would die. In fact "dying ye shall die." How do we know that Adam didn't understand
what death meant? Clearly plants died by being eaten by herbivores...there are many animals which needed meat...
and those who misapply Romans 5:12 do not understand its context to apply to men and separation of fellowship from
Holy God (as well as physical death of men/women). I believe it is highly over simplistic to not allow certain verses
to be elliptical for the sake of concision in communication. I would have tremendous cognitive dissonance with such
a simplistic hermeneutic. Are we to believe no insects died before the fall? What did a spider eat?

Such rigid over simplicity misses the gist of the meaning of those verses. Adam had probably seen death from
various species in the animal kingdom who were not eating from the tree of life. Adam and Eve were eating from it.

fatboys said:

Since they did not know good and evil, could Adam and Eve understood what the law was and the consequences?

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It is true that they did not fully understand the consequences which need to be witnessed or experienced in order
to fully learn the ramifications of such consequences. This does not mean that they didn't have a moral conscience
to have some sense of "oughtness" (even if they didn't really know what evil was yet).

fatboys said:

They did disobey and as a result death came into the world. Sin also came into the world because of imperfection. I believe that to justice it does not matter if someone disobeys having full knowledge and understanding of the law broken or if someone is innocent of the law. It is still disobedience and there are consequences that must come as a result. The punishment is the same.

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I would say that death came to humankind...and perhaps because of God's prior knowledge of Adam's sin... God created
things in a temporary state because God knew Adam would disobey (which is sin). The galaxies/stars/planets are clearly
a temporary creation (notice I didn't say universe).

fatboys said:

Logic dictates that this was Gods plan all along because why would he allow satan to tempt them? Why would God place the tree of knowledge of good and evil for them to be tempted.

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God's plan can be inclusive of what God allows or what God knows will take place with free will as part of the
whole of all circumstances... I personally believe that there is something much much more sophisticated going
here with a possible infinite determiner (which is NOT a cause) which would demonstrate how God is fully justified
in allowing the inevitable with human free will and knowledge/experience/lack of loyalty/lack of faith/trust, etc.

To explain this, would take multiple posts... but it is sine qua non in understanding compatibility of human free
will in this schema alone (how God was fully justified in allowing Adam to sin... and in what way is moral evil
an inevitable byproduct of human freewill under certain conditions. It is a Neo-Federalist position rather than
a Realist' position related to the Fall).

fatboys said:

I believe that God wanted Adam to eat the fruit so mortality would come to this earth as well so we could know good from evil. To experience the opposites of life so we could continue to progress.

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Hold on here. Saying "God wanted Adam to sin" in non-sequitur. God doesn't "want" anyone to sin/disobey
or do what is morally not optimal for them to do. I agree with you that knowledge of contrasts are important
for our eternal state and part of God's plan... but it is very important to make distinctions between what God
allows to happen or knows will happen (and how God makes this part of His plan) verses God wanting us to sin.

The latter is error. It is often the result of looking at God with a monolithic view of His "will" as though God
were a man. God's desired "will" is distinct from God's sovereign will because the English word "will" is
in desperate need of modifiers in front of it when it comes to the sum total of all circumstances. "Will"
by itself is an insufficient word to address all of the dynamics of God's relationship to human freewill.
Mankind's human "will" is quite different from God's for several theological reasons.

fatboys said:

So to me Adam and Eve did not sin. They did transgress Gods law which had the same punishment.

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Sin means to "miss the mark" and the term was derived from archery. Clearly Adam missed the mark of trusting
God to redeem Eve in some way or did not beseech God to die in her place. If you look at Romans you will see
that "sin" entered into the world by Adam... so clearly Adam DID sin. He had a moral conscience and he
violated it. Now, we do this all the time because we are cursed with original sin.

What I really feel is missing from your discussion fatboys is Adam's motive to die with Eve rather than live
with God. Some systematic theologians agree with Arthur Custance (in his Door Way Papers) that Adam and
Eve shared a tremendous LOVE relationship. That Adam DID know what a horrible thing Eve had done (by
eating the fruit) and this is where Adam's lack of faith/trust came into play. Rather than trusting God that
God would redeem Eve in someway or have mercy on her (of course how could he know what mercy/grace
was?) or raise her back from death or restore her (his love mate), that Adam chose to die with her rather
than have faith that God would do what was best for Adam. This is all very multifaceted related not only
to salvation (faith) but also to Adam's lack of knowledge about God. How could Adam know how much
God loved Him? How could Adam know about God's Self-Sacrificing love? These require Jesus.

But please don't over simplify and say that "God wanted it all to happen so He could someday send
Jesus." Often times the simple answer is either the wrong answer.. or the partial answer. In this
case I would argue that "God wanted Adam to sin" is categorically wrong. Question everything.

Rygaku said:

That is a pretty easy question to answer. Originally the bible supported multiple gods so that bit in our image it is a reference to other gods. In fact god of the bible had a wife and there are other gods but that stuff has been taken out in favor of the only one god. So when god is saying don't worship any god(s) or idols, it is pretty much hinting towards other god(s) existing. In short simple answer there is more than 1 god there is probably many gods.

And a little info on gods wife her name is Asherah. http://news.discovery.com/history/religion/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.htm

So as far as i'm concerned the bible as of now with translations the original message to its readers is lost because, passages that were apart originally are gone.

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Some or many have many gods and only one World.

I have only one God and two Worlds.

The one who breathed of Himself into man, the breath of Life.

fatboys said:

im asking this question because there are many who believe that Adam is a dirty dog. Here is my reasoning to why they are not and were following the plan of God. Adam and Eve were placed in the garden of Eden. They were innocent of knowledge of good and evil. Satan was allowed to tempt them and Eve partook of the fruit and gave it to Adam. I believe that Adam and Eve disobeyed Gods law to not eat the fruit. God had told them not to eat of the fruit or they would die. Since there had not yet had death enter into the garden did they understand what the consequences of their choice? Since they did not know good and evil, could Adam and Eve understood what the law was and the consequences? They did disobey and as a result death came into the world. Sin also came into the world because of imperfection. I believe that to justice it does not matter if someone disobeys having full knowledge and understanding of the law broken or if someone is innocent of the law. It is still disobedience and there are consequences that must come as a result. The punishment is the same. Logic dictates that this was Gods plan all along because why would he allow satan to tempt them? Why would God place the tree of knowledge of good and evil for them to be tempted. I believe that God wanted Adam to eat the fruit so mortality would come to this earth as well so we could know good from evil. To experience the opposites of life so we could continue to progress. So to me Adam and Eve did not sin. They did transgress Gods law which had the same punishment.

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Yes Adam sinned. Eve was deceived in that she fell into Satan's trap when he said to her "Has G-d said..." and she added to what G-d said. G-d said dont eat of it... Eve said don't eat and we may not even touch it...

Yes it was G-d's plan all along. How else could man have free will? Doesn't scripture say in Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Transgress and sin are the same. Eve was deceived, Adam KNEW what he was doing. For the sake of his wife and out of love he ate fully well knowing he was sinning.

The real question is this... what would have happened had they on the spot repented? Instead Eve blames the serpent and Adam blames G-d

bling said:

Would Adam and Eve have been the best all human (not divine) beings, which could be cratered?

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Yes. IMHO they were brilliant. I personally believe that the pre flood civilization had incredible technology. Up to and including the ability to manipulate human DNA

bling said:

Would there genes have been as good as genes could be made since no mutations would have occurred in them?

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Yes... until later generations began to manipulate the human genome and corrupted mankind

bling said:

Adam at least is described as being “very good” by God’s standard, so would that be as good as a being could be created?

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The universe is beyond amazing in its grandeur and splendor so yeah, Adam and Eve would by today's standards be considered perfect. Perfect in physical, emotional and intellect

bling said:

Who raised (or programmed) Adam and Eve to adulthood?

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They were created as adults

bling said:

Who taught Adam and Eve the meaning of all the words God would use (including the word “die”)?

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G-d Adam and G-d walked together in the "cool of the day" I believe they were likely in the Garden for a long time before they fell.

bling said:

If Adam and Eve were not the best human representatives than the fact that better humans were not given the opportunity to live in the Garden is unfair.

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they were the best far, far, far better than anyone alive today by a very, very wide margin

bling said:

Just because Adam and Eve did not know “good and evil” (which is something they did not need to know at the time) does not mean they did not know: “right and wrong”. I may be wrong to play next to a cliff but is it evil?

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There is a difference between being obedient and having the knowledge of good and evil. G-d created them knowing full well that man would fall.

bling said:

There is a ton of stuff Adam and Eve and all of us learn from their Garden experience and some needed to be learned through experience early on. People even today will at some point in their life ask: “How could a Loving God allow this____ tragedy to happen”? What they are really asking for is: “why are we not all in a Garden type situation no: tragedies, hardship, illness or death.

The problem is as Adam and Eve have shown us is: the Garden is a lousy place for humans to fulfill their earthly objective.

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A Loving G-d does not allow __________ to happen. Bad things happen as a result of the fall of man. Man was given DOMINION over the earth. The earth and all that is in it was subject to man in the garden. When he fell he gave that dominion over to sin and specifically to Satan.

It is because Sin entered both the world and Man that tragedy occurs. Much of it is man acting on his evil inclination. The rest (natural disasters) are a result that ALL of creation fell when man fell.

How about this - Adam knew that he shouldn't eat the fruit when she brought it to him. But what if Adam loved Eve so much that when he learned that she had already eaten it, he went along and sinned with her so that she wouldn't be alone in being judged?