Did Adam and Eve eat?

Aman777 · Feb 18, 2014

Originally Posted by TLK Valentine

Darth Vader thought the same as well. So what?

Originally Posted by Aman777

Do you always identify with evil?

It just occurred to me -- it's funny how all you see is the evil, and forget that the saga in its entirety focuses on his fall and redemption.

Isn't redemption a major theme for you guys? Kind of hard to miss...

Dear Valentine, Not for me since I don't watch movies. They bore me. All I know about Darth Vader is that he was a villian in the Star Wars movies which I didn't watch. Sorry, but I didn't know Darth was a good guy. His mask made him look like a bad guy. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

TLK Valentine · Feb 18, 2014

Aman777 said:
Dear Valentine, Not for me since I don't watch movies. They bore me. All I know about Darth Vader is that he was a villian in the Star Wars movies which I didn't watch. Sorry, but I didn't know Darth was a good guy. His mask made him look like a bad guy. God Bless you.

Well that's unfortunate, since you missed out on a great story and a potential witnessing tool

The prequels illustrated Anakin Skywalker's rise to pwer and fall into evil, becoming Darth Vader. While the prequels were panned by critics and fans alike, it's interesting to note that Anakin's story starts off as an ideal allegory for Christ:

Born of a virgin
Great powers and abilities, with an oath to use them for others
Believed to be the subject of a prophecy which would bring about peace and harmony....

The list goes on.

Of course, the story separates from Christ at one key plot point -- Christ resisted the tempations offered to him by the devil in the desert, whereas Anakin accepts Palpatine's offer to give him the power to protect his loved ones... which is his first step down the dark path.

It's an interesting theological question -- what happens when a would-be messiah goes bad?

The original trilogy takes place about 20 years after the prequels, which includes Vader's son, convinced that there is still some good in him, striving to bring him back -- which he does, at the end of Return of the Jedi.

So you see, viewed as one continuous story, we have the rise, fall, and redemption of man... quite the interesting story, actually.

SkyWriting · Feb 20, 2014

FredHoyle said:
I did and there is no answer just as there's no answer to these questions, was the boy with his finger in the hole in the dyke wearing shoes or boots? was the boy who cried wolf fair or dark? they're from stories just like the bible stories and were meant to convey messages and nothing more..

Hey Fred, your not supposed to be talking until you produce 1/2 of 1% of the bible that you consider wrong. You said 50% but I'm cutting you slack. That's 9 full text pages of problems or .05% error, mistakes, confusing stuff, what-have-you.

The Bible was intended to be historically accurate. Everything that can be verified has been confirmed correct. Many passages may not be able to be confirmed. But the volume of confirmed history suggests the rest is accurate. I choose 100% because I gain the most insights from that stand. Those who think less gain far fewer insights. And they get grumpy all the time. Grumpy people fail more.

PsychoSarah · Feb 20, 2014

SkyWriting said:
So do you think that was an accident?
Or that modern critics were the first to notice?

I highly doubt that was an accident, the bible has had plenty of material removed from it, so it isn't as if that is just going to get stuck in there without anyone noticing.

What is off about it is that they don't match up well to each other, and people, for whatever reason, tend to combine the most positive aspects of both when teaching the Jesus origin.

PsychoSarah · Feb 20, 2014

SkyWriting said:
Hey Fred, your not supposed to be talking until you produce 1/2 of 1% of the bible that you consider wrong. You said 50% but I'm cutting you slack. That's 9 full text pages of problems or .05% error, mistakes, confusing stuff, what-have-you.

The Bible was intended to be historically accurate. Everything that can be verified has been confirmed correct. Many passages may not be able to be confirmed. But the volume of confirmed history suggests the rest is accurate. I choose 100% because I gain the most insights from that stand. Those who think less gain far fewer insights. And they get grumpy all the time. Grumpy people fail more.

Actually, most of the biblical stories have no evidence of ever happening, especially those in the Old Testament, although there are plenty that have no historical record in the New Testament as well. This is a really big problem, considering that the times and places a lot of these events supposedly took place occurred in areas where people would have kept records of them. Sure, in a few of the cases those records could have had mishaps, but there is no way all of them should be gone.

The few biblical events that seem to at least be loosely based on real events tend to be the least fantastic, as far as proof of god is concerned. Others are provably wrong, as is the case with how Jacob got striped animals.

The issue is that most of the bible cannot be verified and contradicts reality, and historical records from multiple sources often pick out flaws in the bible timeline. You know how king Herod was the one who supposedly ordered the slaughter of innocents? Unfortunately for the bible, no King Herod was alive during Jesus's lifetime, the closest one being dead for roughly a decade before Jesus was born, and the next on wouldn't come into power until after Jesus was dead.

DogmaHunter · Feb 20, 2014

SkyWriting said:
The Bible was intended to be historically accurate. Everything that can be verified has been confirmed correct.

You don't actually believe this, do you? Please tell me you don't...

SkyWriting said:
Many passages may not be able to be confirmed. But the volume of confirmed history suggests the rest is accurate

It does not. The quran mentions a few confirmed historic things as well... therefor, mohammed flew to the heavens on a winged horse? Come on now..

SkyWriting · Feb 25, 2014

DogmaHunter said:
You don't actually believe this, do you? Please tell me you don't...
It does not. The quran mentions a few confirmed historic things as well... therefor, mohammed flew to the heavens on a winged horse? Come on now..

When you die, you enter the spiritual realm. What happens there is has very loose ties with our reality.
Perhaps a "flying horse" is the best description somebody could come up with for their vision.

Was their vision from God? It doesn't seem so to me.

SkyWriting · Feb 25, 2014

PsychoSarah said:
Actually, most of the biblical stories have no evidence of ever happening, especially those in the Old Testament, although there are plenty that have no historical record in the New Testament as well. This is a really big problem, considering that the times and places a lot of these events supposedly took place occurred in areas where people would have kept records of them. Sure, in a few of the cases those records could have had mishaps, but there is no way all of them should be gone.The few biblical events that seem to at least be loosely based on real events tend to be the least fantastic, as far as proof of god is concerned. Others are provably wrong, as is the case with how Jacob got striped animals.The issue is that most of the bible cannot be verified and contradicts reality, and historical records from multiple sources often pick out flaws in the bible timeline. You know how king Herod was the one who supposedly ordered the slaughter of innocents? Unfortunately for the bible, no King Herod was alive during Jesus's lifetime, the closest one being dead for roughly a decade before Jesus was born, and the next on wouldn't come into power until after Jesus was dead.

I don't see any supporting data for any of your claims.
But you give me the chance to support mine.

Bringing the Ancient World to Life - Biblical Archaeology Society

Biblical Archaeology's Top Ten Discoveries of 2013 | Christianity Today

Associates for Biblical Research

SkyWriting · Feb 25, 2014

PsychoSarah said:
I highly doubt that was an accident, the bible has had plenty of material removed from it, so it isn't as if that is just going to get stuck in there without anyone noticing. What is off about it is that they don't match up well to each other, and people, for whatever reason, tend to combine the most positive aspects of both when teaching the Jesus origin.

Again, "they don't match up well". How is it that "conflicting" accounts end up in the same book together? That sounds like a stupid way to found a religion. You realize that every word was debated by scores of people? Isn't it much more likely that you haven't spent near enough time understanding the intent of the writings than the Bible being a sloppy collection of disjointed stories?

http://www.essentialbibleblog.com/2013/03/top-10-reasons-bible-is-true.html

TLK Valentine · Feb 25, 2014

SkyWriting said:
Again, "they don't match up well". How is it that "conflicting" accounts end up in the same book together? That sounds like a stupid way to found a religion.

It's a stupid way to tell a history, but if the book's not telling straight up history, then it's moot.

You realize that every word was debated by scores of people?

Is all they did debate, or did they edit as well?

Isn't it much more likely that you haven't spent near enough time understanding the intent of the writings than the Bible being a sloppy collection of disjointed stories?

Could be you're both misunderstanding the intent...

DogmaHunter · Feb 25, 2014

SkyWriting said:
When you die, you enter the spiritual realm.

Evidence of this claim?

SkyWriting said:
What happens there is has very loose ties with our reality.

Evidence of this claim?

SkyWriting said:
Perhaps a "flying horse" is the best description somebody could come up with for their vision.

Errr... the flying horse part is not something that happened after mohammed died. This was during his life.

SkyWriting said:
Was their vision from God? It doesn't seem so to me.

Why not?

EternalDragon · Feb 25, 2014

DogmaHunter said:
Evidence of this claim?

Evidence of this claim?

Luke 24 and this verse:

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

selfinflikted · Feb 25, 2014

EternalDragon said:
Luke 24 and this verse:

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Not evidence.

DogmaHunter · Feb 25, 2014

EternalDragon said:
Luke 24 and this verse:

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Pointing to bible verses is just pointing to the original claim that you repeated.

I'm asking for evidence of the claims, not the source of the claims.

EternalDragon · Feb 25, 2014

DogmaHunter said:
Pointing to bible verses is just pointing to the original claim that you repeated.

I'm asking for evidence of the claims, not the source of the claims.

What kind of evidence do you want? Someone coming back from the dead and telling you (already happened) or taking you there and showing you?

Even when Jesus came back, some people that witnessed it firsthand were not convinced. What else do you need?

TillICollapse · Feb 25, 2014

EternalDragon said:
What kind of evidence do you want? Someone coming back from the dead and telling you (already happened) or taking you there and showing you?

Plenty of people claim to die and experience events while they are "dead". So even in those instances it is anecdotal evidence and direct testimony from the individual involved. Speaking for myself, I often appreciate hearing from the person who ACTUALLY experienced something: what they saw/heard/experienced/etc. If they are merely telling me what someone else experienced, okay, but I'd rather get it from the direct person involved if I can.

As far as someone taking another person there and showing them ... sure that might be a great way to demonstrate it.

Claiming truth is one thing, demonstrating it is another.

Even when Jesus came back, some people that witnessed it firsthand were not convinced. What else do you need?

And some were convinced, according to scripture. And there are people who have claimed to witness "miracles" and believed as well.

Are you able to provide your own eye witness testimony concerning the matter, or demonstrate it ?

HitchSlap · Feb 25, 2014

EternalDragon said:
What kind of evidence do you want? Someone coming back from the dead and telling you (already happened) or taking you there and showing you?

Even when Jesus came back, some people that witnessed it firsthand were not convinced. What else do you need?

He can always call me.

FredHoyle · Feb 26, 2014

SkyWriting said:
When you die, you enter the spiritual realm.

Why on earth would you allow yourself to believe such ridiculous nonsense?

Do all animals 'enter the spiritual realm' or is it just man? if it is why do you think that is?
it's because we are the only animals that can imagine a 'spiritual realm' that's why,
it's your imagination making you think it's possible, my dog can't imagine it so it's not going to happen to him.

Because of our imaginations we get to live forever while all the other animals just die.

DogmaHunter · Feb 26, 2014

EternalDragon said:
What kind of evidence do you want?

Well, you tell me. How do you propose we test / verify the claim?

EternalDragon said:
Someone coming back from the dead and telling you (already happened) or taking you there and showing you?

That would still be a claim. You know what a claim is right?

EternalDragon said:
Even when Jesus came back, some people that witnessed it firsthand were not convinced

You keep saying this, but "jesus coming back" is again yet another claim that I have not seen supported by evidence.

EternalDragon said:
What else do you need?

A way to verify or test the claim independently. Asking me to take your (or anyone else's) word for it, is not what I had in mind when I asked for evidence.

FredHoyle · Feb 26, 2014

DogmaHunter said:
Asking me to take your (or anyone else's) word for it, is not what I had in mind when I asked for evidence.

Then you're out of luck because it's all they have.

It usually goes something like this........
You can take my word for it because I read it in a book so it must be true.
I was raised to believe it so it must be true, would I believe it if it wasn't true? ask anyone in my church.
I believe it and I know lots of other people who also believe it so it must be true.
"What evidence do you have that it's true?" I have just given you a load of evidence, what more do you want?

Creationists are raised to believe that words and faith are all the evidence they need,
of course that only applies to their religion, when it comes to their daily life.......different rules apply.

Did Adam and Eve eat?

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