determinism by denomination

[nathanielfirst]

hi, I am new here and attempting to find info on comparatively, which denominations believe in predestination/ determinism and which believe it the least, like i know any Calvinist is going to stress it more than a Lutheran, but I'm trying to find the same sort of comparison between ALL - Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Methodist, Adventist, you name it.
any ideas?
-nathanael

 

[Sphinx777]

Predestination (also linked with foreknowledge) is a religious concept, which involves the relationship between God and His creation. The religious character of predestination distinguishes it from other ideas about determinism and free will. Those who believe in predestination, such as John Calvin, believe that before the creation God determined the fate of the universe throughout all of time and space.

 

[Rhamiel]

I would say that the Catholic Church believes that only through His grace can we have any faith or are able to do any good works, but we have to cooperate with the grace of God

 

[itisdeliciouscake]

I think the only denomination that completely renounces predestination is RCC, other than that all other denominations don't directly specify what their belief on this is. (except calvinism)

 

[MrPolo]

Catholics certainly do not renounce predestination. And while we do not consider ourselves a "denomination", I understand what nathanielfirst is looking for.

Here is a fairly thorough treatment by Dr. Ludwig Ott (whose book is used to teach priests the faith) on predestination.

The two prevailing understandings of predestination are Molinism and Thomism.

 

[Rhamiel]

why would you say the Catholic Church renounces predestination? we believe that God knows who will be saved, and that it is only through His grace that we can be saved, that is not too differant from Armianism

 

[itisdeliciouscake]

why would you say the Catholic Church renounces predestination? we believe that God knows who will be saved, and that it is only through His grace that we can be saved, that is not too differant from Armianism

really?

I thot I heard somewhere that the Pope and the RCC Catechisms rejected Predestination.

 

[Rhamiel]

we reject the Calvinist understanding of it, God knows the future, He knows who will be saved and who will not be

 

[Zoness]

If I understand right RCC and Orthodox believe in Predestination but not the total depravity of man which is Calvinist terms basically sets us as the scum of existance totally incapable of coming to God, he comes to us. Methodists and all affiliated branches subscribe to the ideas that you can easily become elect by the grace of god and through faith and the elect are NOT predetermined, people can (but shouldn't) freely resist God's grace and the idea that salvation is conditional upon continued faith.

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

hi, I am new here and attempting to find info on comparatively, which denominations believe in predestination/ determinism and which believe it the least, like i know any Calvinist is going to stress it more than a Lutheran, but I'm trying to find the same sort of comparison between ALL - Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Methodist, Adventist, you name it.
any ideas?
-nathanael

The terms predestination and determinism are actually two different concepts. Determinism is the idea that everything has already been predetermined. Many atheists are determinists since they hold the universe is one giant cause and effect.

Predestination is a term found in the Bible (Rom 8:29-30, Eph 1:4; 1:11). Its a concept thats acknowledged by every Christian denomination. Predestination is about God's choice of specific people and nations. Predestination does not say that all things have already been predetermined.

If a Christian is a determinist, then they must conclude that:
1) God created evil and
2) (by definition) they must deny any personal responsibility.

However the overwhelming majority of Christians hold that
1) God did not create evil, and
2) that humans do have personal responsibility.

So Christian determinists are very rare.

Personally I think its easier to see the issue in terms of God's sovereignty and human responsibility. In a philosophical sense both seem incompatible. However they are true at the same time because both concepts are found in Scripture. Christian denominations are going to acknowledge both to a certain degree, and some emphasize one more than the other. There are also different views within each denomination, as one poster pointed out a few RCC differences which include Molinists.

As for denominations themselves:
Most of the churches with "Reformed" or Presbyterian in its name have been traditionally Calvinist. So their emphasis is heavily on God's Sovereignty. The Eastern Orthodox churches have a heavy emphasis on human responsibility.
The RCC traditionally has an emphasis on human responsibility. Among Protestants, Lutherans give equal emphasis to both without attempting to reconcile either. The Restoration Movement churches, such as the Christian Churches, Disciples of Christ and Churches of Christ, place a heavy emphasis on human responsibility. The same is true with Methodist and Holiness churches, as well as the Pentecostal groups. Episcopalians have traditionally had a mixture of positions.


LDG

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Everyone has to work out his own salvation with fear and trembling. When it comes to salvation there is no predestination. This is the Adventist perspective.

 

[Rhamiel]

by predestination I mean God knows the future, it is not like it will be a surprize for Him who ends up in Heaven, He knows everything, so in that way it is kinda predestioned

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

by predestination I mean God knows the future, it is not like it will be a surprize for Him who ends up in Heaven, He knows everything, so in that way it is kinda predestioned

Foreknowledge: To know what will be.
Predestination: To cause what will be.
Apples and oranges.

I know the sun will come up tomorrow.
I don't cause it to rise.




.

 

[Thekla]

it is confusing:

determine can mean (in English) figure out OR make happen
so predetermine is which one ?

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

it is confusing:

determine can mean (in English) figure out OR make happen
so predetermine is which one ?

To predetermine means to foreordain or to predestine. It is an active choice rather than passive.

CaliforniaJosiah has figured out that the sun will rise tomorrow.
But he isn't going to make the sun rise.


LDG

 

[PROPHECYKID]

it is confusing:

determine can mean (in English) figure out OR make happen
so predetermine is which one ?

But remember to predetermine and to predestinate are two different things.