Desperately Lost

[AllAlone]

I am not good at this sort of thing but i am desperately in need of advice. I am 21 years old and have been raised in a evangelical christian household. I have also attended a very strict private christian school all my life up until college. I am decently versed in the Bible and have a decent understanding of it.
My problem arises in that over the past 5 years I have been repeatedly ostracised by many christians (which i were very close to) because of my beliefs. I am just wondering if there are any other christians out there who believe what i do and if there are any churchs who hold my same beliefs. For sake of time i am just going to make a list of certian beliefs which i am been critized for.

1.) I do not believe that the old testimate is to be read literally. While i believe that the stories are losely based a actual events, i dont not believe that they all occured exactly as they are written. They were not written to be an historical account of the world but rather to teach certian spiritual truths.
2.) I believe in both evolution and the big bang theory for the creation of the universe. From what i have read i the Bible i see no reason God could not have created the universe and mankind in these manners. God created the universe and God created science and i dont see why he couldnt have used science to create the universe.
3.) I am extremely against guns.
4.) I feel that if one is going to call themself pro-life (refering to abortion) because it is murder them they must also protest against war and capital punishment. What is murder other than one human killing another.

I feel as though i am rambling, and if i have written anything in a hostile tone then i appologize. I have been put through so much over the past several years and it is weighing heavily on me. I do believe in God and i do believe in the death and ressurrection of Jesus Christ. I would really like some advice or input. I really Hope that there is someone out there who can help.

 

[Calminian]

I am not good at this sort of thing but i am desperately in need of advice. I am 21 years old and have been raised in a evangelical christian household. I have also attended a very strict private christian school all my life up until college. I am decently versed in the Bible and have a decent understanding of it.
My problem arises in that over the past 5 years I have been repeatedly ostracised by many christians (which i were very close to) because of my beliefs. I am just wondering if there are any other christians out there who believe what i do and if there are any churchs who hold my same beliefs. For sake of time i am just going to make a list of certian beliefs which i am been critized for.

1.) I do not believe that the old testimate is to be read literally. While i believe that the stories are losely based a actual events, i dont not believe that they all occured exactly as they are written. They were not written to be an historical account of the world but rather to teach certian spiritual truths.
2.) I believe in both evolution and the big bang theory for the creation of the universe. From what i have read i the Bible i see no reason God could not have created the universe and mankind in these manners. God created the universe and God created science and i dont see why he couldnt have used science to create the universe.
3.) I am extremely against guns.
4.) I feel that if one is going to call themself pro-life (refering to abortion) because it is murder them they must also protest against war and capital punishment. What is murder other than one human killing another.

I feel as though i am rambling, and if i have written anything in a hostile tone then i appologize. I have been put through so much over the past several years and it is weighing heavily on me. I do believe in God and i do believe in the death and ressurrection of Jesus Christ. I would really like some advice or input. I really Hope that there is someone out there who can help.

There are Christians that believe as you do. I would consider your beliefs illogical and I could go through them one by one, but you seem to be more concerned with finding support (not a bad thing). The truth is, the views you hold are the majority opinion these days (unfortunately). You should have no problem finding support.

One thing that may help you with relations with your family and friends would be a good dialog on the subject here, with someone that holds their views. Even if you don't agree with them you may at least come to respect them more which may help your relationships.

Curious. You say God created science? Science is simply a method of investigation. Why would you believe God created it instead of man? Perhaps you meant to say God created a deterministic materialistic universe. This is why science works so well in our world. But the Bible (which I realize you don't believe) also says God bypasses natural processes at times. This would cause a terrible problem for scientific investigation being that science must assume a non-miraculous environment (methodological naturalism).

Science is a very misunderstood method. It cannot verify nor falsify miracles. It must assume they don't exist beforehand. Once you understand that you can formulate a better more accurate epistemology. Blind acceptance of methodological naturalism is actually a very flawed epistemology—one which it seems your basing all four of you're objections on.

Just some thoughts. I hope you believe I'm only trying to help.

 

[Spectre01]

I will say this: that if you believe in God, and the Resurrection of Christ, than you are not alone. If you believe that Christ died for you, than you must know that He loves you, which He does. I would advise to read the book of Romans, which is an overview of what Christ did for us all. Revelation 3:20 is good as wellI know that God will help put it in perspective for you. Dont listen to everybody, open up and trust in God. I pray that you will come to know Christ, as I have, and that His love will be shown to you. If you put faith in Christ, you wont be all alone anymore.

God Bless

 

[Roadmap]

I will say this: that if you believe in God, and the Resurrection of Christ, than you are not alone. If you believe that Christ died for you, than you must know that He loves you, which He does. I would advise to read the book of Romans, which is an overview of what Christ did for us all. Revelation 3:20 is good as wellI know that God will help put it in perspective for you. Dont listen to everybody, open up and trust in God. I pray that you will come to know Christ, as I have, and that His love will be shown to you. If you put faith in Christ, you wont be all alone anymore.

God Bless

WOW. The wisdom of youth! I appreciate your words here.

Okay.. as for me, I will love you but not agree with you. I don't think any of us, however, would think of ostracizing you. You do have beliefs that are different than mine, but I think you were very good in putting them forth to us. You were not hostile.

I can't convince you in this one message but I do believe the Old Testament is literal, and I believe God created the world just like He said He did in the Old Testament. As far as guns, I think you have a reasonable opinion there. I personal don't object to them, but don't own any. That is something personal. As far as pro-life. I don't think any of us want war, but sometimes it becomes a necessary event in order to resist evil forces. Just some of my quick thoughts. I am no Bible authority, so won't claim to be an expert.

But as a believer in Jesus Christ as your Saviour, I accept you as my Christian brother!

Remember... a lot of the Christian walk centers on Faith. Not everything is clear cut, and we need to avoid just using our finite human intellect to decipher things.

My two cents....hmmm...maybe that was three cents.

 

[ebia]

I am not good at this sort of thing but i am desperately in need of advice. I am 21 years old and have been raised in a evangelical christian household. I have also attended a very strict private christian school all my life up until college. I am decently versed in the Bible and have a decent understanding of it.
My problem arises in that over the past 5 years I have been repeatedly ostracised by many christians (which i were very close to) because of my beliefs. I am just wondering if there are any other christians out there who believe what i do and if there are any churchs who hold my same beliefs. For sake of time i am just going to make a list of certian beliefs which i am been critized for.

1.) I do not believe that the old testimate is to be read literally. While i believe that the stories are losely based a actual events, i dont not believe that they all occured exactly as they are written. They were not written to be an historical account of the world but rather to teach certian spiritual truths.

Spot on.

2.) I believe in both evolution and the big bang theory for the creation of the universe. From what i have read i the Bible i see no reason God could not have created the universe and mankind in these manners. God created the universe and God created science and i dont see why he couldnt have used science to create the universe.

See above.

4.) I feel that if one is going to call themself pro-life (refering to abortion) because it is murder them they must also protest against war and capital punishment. What is murder other than one human killing another

.

You have said nothing that is outside of mainstream, orthodox, Christianity.

 

[Roadmap]

AllAlone!

I want to apologize. I have been thinking about your post, and my earlier post. I answered somewhat in haste the first time; wanting to be of help to you.
But in reconsidering, your post wasn't for my kind of response. You are seeking like minded folks, and I am not one of them. Well, I can almost guarantee that you will find many lurking somewhere around the Forum. Be patient if that is truly what you want. I would never force someone to believe differently than they want to believe.
I am available if you ever want to share with me via private messages. But I do pray that God will give you direction, and you will hear Him and not the voices of people. May God bless you!

 

[Jim47]

I am not good at this sort of thing but i am desperately in need of advice. I am 21 years old and have been raised in a evangelical christian household. I have also attended a very strict private christian school all my life up until college. I am decently versed in the Bible and have a decent understanding of it.
My problem arises in that over the past 5 years I have been repeatedly ostracised by many christians (which i were very close to) because of my beliefs. I am just wondering if there are any other christians out there who believe what i do and if there are any churchs who hold my same beliefs. For sake of time i am just going to make a list of certian beliefs which i am been critized for.

1.) I do not believe that the old testimate is to be read literally. While i believe that the stories are losely based a actual events, i dont not believe that they all occured exactly as they are written. They were not written to be an historical account of the world but rather to teach certian spiritual truths.
2.) I believe in both evolution and the big bang theory for the creation of the universe. From what i have read i the Bible i see no reason God could not have created the universe and mankind in these manners. God created the universe and God created science and i dont see why he couldnt have used science to create the universe.
3.) I am extremely against guns.
4.) I feel that if one is going to call themself pro-life (refering to abortion) because it is murder them they must also protest against war and capital punishment. What is murder other than one human killing another.

I feel as though i am rambling, and if i have written anything in a hostile tone then i appologize. I have been put through so much over the past several years and it is weighing heavily on me. I do believe in God and i do believe in the death and ressurrection of Jesus Christ. I would really like some advice or input. I really Hope that there is someone out there who can help.

So what is it that you are looking for support for your beliefs, or are you looking for the truth as you do not yet understand or believe it?

Why would God write a detailed account of His creation if it wern't true? and the other scriptures you do not accept?

I once shared some doubts about certain scriptures myself, and having read the bible a number of times I knew most scripture. So I decided that my intelligence was not on a par with God's and that I was not able to deny the truth in scripture just because I had a hard time understanding some of it. It was at that point that most of my misunderstandings started to clear up and I could see plainly the truth in God's Word.

Let me ask you- is it better to search for support? or to search for truth? Even Satan has support, but we as Christians should seek the truth I pray.

 

[starelda]

I am not good at this sort of thing but i am desperately in need of advice. I am 21 years old and have been raised in a evangelical christian household. I have also attended a very strict private christian school all my life up until college. I am decently versed in the Bible and have a decent understanding of it.
My problem arises in that over the past 5 years I have been repeatedly ostracised by many christians (which i were very close to) because of my beliefs. I am just wondering if there are any other christians out there who believe what i do and if there are any churchs who hold my same beliefs. For sake of time i am just going to make a list of certian beliefs which i am been critized for.

1.) I do not believe that the old testimate is to be read literally. While i believe that the stories are losely based a actual events, i dont not believe that they all occured exactly as they are written. They were not written to be an historical account of the world but rather to teach certian spiritual truths.
2.) I believe in both evolution and the big bang theory for the creation of the universe. From what i have read i the Bible i see no reason God could not have created the universe and mankind in these manners. God created the universe and God created science and i dont see why he couldnt have used science to create the universe.
3.) I am extremely against guns.
4.) I feel that if one is going to call themself pro-life (refering to abortion) because it is murder them they must also protest against war and capital punishment. What is murder other than one human killing another.

I feel as though i am rambling, and if i have written anything in a hostile tone then i appologize. I have been put through so much over the past several years and it is weighing heavily on me. I do believe in God and i do believe in the death and ressurrection of Jesus Christ. I would really like some advice or input. I really Hope that there is someone out there who can help.

I'm so sorry to hear that you've been ostracised. I personally believe pretty much the same as you do. I don't think the OT should be taken literally, I believe God created us through the big bang and evolution, I'm also totally against guns (which it's quite easy to be in this country since most are) and capital punishment (again quite easy to do in this country since we don't have that here). Basically, what I'm trying to get across is that there are other Christians which believe as you do.

 

[Momma2H]

1.) I do not believe that the old testimate is to be read literally. While i believe that the stories are losely based a actual events, i dont not believe that they all occured exactly as they are written. They were not written to be an historical account of the world but rather to teach certian spiritual truths.
2.) I believe in both evolution and the big bang theory for the creation of the universe. From what i have read i the Bible i see no reason God could not have created the universe and mankind in these manners. God created the universe and God created science and i dont see why he couldnt have used science to create the universe.
3.) I am extremely against guns.
4.) I feel that if one is going to call themself pro-life (refering to abortion) because it is murder them they must also protest against war and capital punishment. What is murder other than one human killing another.

I will say that I agree with you about The Big Bang Theory being a possible method God used in order to ceate the universe. It doesn't say how he created the universe in the Bible, just that He did, so who are we to say in which way He did or didn't create it. The Big Bang Theory has been proven, but the only thing I don't agree with that the scientists think it that it "just happened". God made it happen. As far as evolution, I can't agree with you on that one b/c it clearly says in the Bible that God created man, not apes that turned into man.

The others, I can't particularly agree with, so I won't resond to those. I'm sure every Christian has some different beliefs than others, but the main thing that we should all agree on is that Jesus died on the cross for our sin and rose again, so that we can spend eternity with Him in heaven, but we have to accept Him as our Savior first. And that he will be coming again someday soon, so we need to be ready.

 

[Calminian]

So what is it that you are looking for support for your beliefs, or are you looking for the truth as you do not yet understand or believe it?

Why would God write a detailed account of His creation if it wern't true? and the other scriptures you do not accept?

I once shared some doubts about certain scriptures myself, and having read the bible a number of times I knew most scripture. So I decided that my intelligence was not on a par with God's and that I was not able to deny the truth in scripture just because I had a hard time understanding some of it. It was at that point that most of my misunderstandings started to clear up and I could see plainly the truth in God's Word.

Let me ask you- is it better to search for support? or to search for truth? Even Satan has support, but we as Christians should seek the truth I pray.

These are pretty much my thoughts as well. I'm surprised by some of the replies so far. For instance:

It doesn't say how he created the universe in the Bible, just that He did, so who are we to say in which way He did or didn't create it.

What books are they reading? I think the Judeo-Christian creation account is probably more detailed that any other. It's one thing to say you don't believe it, but another to say it offers no details.

I'm also curious. For those who wish to allegorize all the old testament stories, why do you not also allegorize the new testament stories, such as the Resurrection? At least you'd be consistent. Do you not realize the OT is foundational to the NT? At least liberals like Bishop Spong allegorize everything.

My fear is that the OPer's belief in the resurrected Christ may be short lived having no foundation. The second Adam (Jesus) came as a result of the fall of the first Adam. If the first Adam was mythology, why wouldn't a mythological second Adam be sufficient?

 

[Calminian]

In fact, the sower parable comes to mined.

Matt. 13:6 “But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away.
Matt. 13:21 “yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

Are you sure it's wise to encourage him to disregard the root of the old testament?

 

[Calminian]

In fact, the sower parable comes to mined.

Matt. 13:6 “But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away.
Matt. 13:21 “yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

Are you sure it's wise to encourage him to disregard the root of the old testament?

 

[Momma2H]

In fact, the sower parable comes to mined.

Matt. 13:6 “But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away.
Matt. 13:21 “yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

Are you sure it's wise to encourage him to disregard the root of the old testament?

I only agreed with him about the Big Bang Theory being probable, not that the OT isn't true or literal. BTW, I read the New King James version of the Bible. The Bible didn't record every single detail of every single event, so who's to say how God really created the universe b/c we're not God and we weren't there. I think the Big Bang Theory is probable, but one key element has been left out, which is that it was done by God's hand. That's my opinion on the matter. I'm not encouraging the OP whatsoever to to disregard the root of the old testement.

 

[Jim47]

I only agreed with him about the Big Bang Theory being probable, not that the OT isn't true or literal. BTW, I read the New King James version of the Bible. The Bible didn't record every single detail of every single event, so who's to say how God really created the universe b/c we're not God and we weren't there. I think the Big Bang Theory is probable, but one key element has been left out, which is that it was done by God's hand. That's my opinion on the matter. I'm not encouraging the OP whatsoever to to disregard the root of the old testement.

God gave us every detail we need, and it wasn't done by a bang. He clearly states it was done by "His Word". Yes quite hard for us to understand how that is possible as we are mere humans and we can't even change the color of our hair by "our word"

The following is the NIV version but its not much different from the NKJV

Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Ge 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
Ge 1:3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.
Ge 1:4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.
Ge 1:5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
Ge 1:6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water."
Ge 1:7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so.
Ge 1:8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
Ge 1:9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so.
Ge 1:10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.
Ge 1:11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so.
Ge 1:12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
Ge 1:13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
Ge 1:14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years,
Ge 1:15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so.
Ge 1:16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.
Ge 1:17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth,
Ge 1:18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good.
Ge 1:19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
Ge 1:20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky."
Ge 1:21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Ge 1:22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth."
Ge 1:23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
Ge 1:24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so.
Ge 1:25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
Ge 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
Ge 1:27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
Ge 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
Ge 1:29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.
Ge 1:30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.
Ge 1:31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
Ge 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
Ge 2:2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.
Ge 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

 

[silastheDM]

I think this is a good example of Augustine's famous words: In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things love.
While I strongly disagree with you, AllAlone, as long as you do believe and accept the essentials of the faith I will consider you a brother in the faith (albeit a weaker one). Paul (a Pharisee who absolutely believed in the "Old Testament") presented these essentials to be: "that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve." (1 Cor 15:3-5).
As many have said above me, if you are looking for support, I'm sure you will find it here. If you are looking to dialogue concerning your differences with the Evangelical community (I wouldn't put your issue concerning guns on that list; while I own them and enjoy using them, I don't see them as having any relevance to my religious devotion and life), you will also find many willing participants.

 

[ebia]

What books are they reading? I think the Judeo-Christian creation account is probably more detailed that any other. It's one thing to say you don't believe it, but another to say it offers no details.

The "how" is poetic, not factual. In that sense it offers no details of the how.

I'm also curious. For those who wish to allegorize all the old testament stories, why do you not also allegorize the new testament stories, such as the Resurrection? At least you'd be consistent. Do you not realize the OT is foundational to the NT? At least liberals like Bishop Spong allegorize everything.

"I'm also curious. For those who wish to turn into 20th Century style history all the old testament stories, why do you not also turn into 20th century style history the psalms and new testament parables and metaphors? At least you'd be consistent. Do you not realize the OT is foundational to the NT?"

I'm not allegorizing anything - I'm taking it for what it is.

My fear is that the OPer's belief in the resurrected Christ may be short lived having no foundation. The second Adam (Jesus) came as a result of the fall of the first Adam. If the first Adam was mythology, why wouldn't a mythological second Adam be sufficient?

You seem to be confusing the descriptions with the events they are describing. The first Adam is mythological, but stand for something very, very real - our choice to separate ourselves from God. The problem is real - it's just the description that is non-literal - so it requires a real solution. That (real) solution happens to be described to us in partially factual accounts, but bear in mind that even then much of the language used to do so is metaphorical, allegorical, etc ("Jesus is the Lamb of God" doesn't mean he is small, cuddly and goes "baa" a lot.)

A 20th Century, hyper-literal, materialistic world view misses all the subtlety and nuance neccessary to a decent theology that is best described through a mix of history, mythology, poetry, legend, parable, liturgy,...

 

[bunnysfriend]

hey, loads of christians believe like you do. you believe in God and the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ? you have faith, surely thats all that really matters? im pretty sure you dont have to be a conservative fundamentalist to be a christian. check out the liberal theology section, the guys there share the a few of the same views as you, they helped me out loads when i worried about all these sorts of things.

 

[Momma2H]

God gave us every detail we need, and it wasn't done by a bang. He clearly states it was done by "His Word". Yes quite hard for us to understand how that is possible as we are mere humans and we can't even change the color of our hair by "our word"

The following is the NIV version but its not much different from the NKJV

Ok, I've read these verses many times before. From my point of view, the Big Bang Theory has been proven scientifically and I've seen programs on tv about it all the time. It all makes perfect sense. Like I said before, the only part I disagree with is that it "just happened". I know God made it happen.

It took God 7 whole days to create the heavens and the earth. Don't you think since he's such a mighty and awesome God that if He was just going to say it and it was created that it would take less than 7 days? Like a mere second or as long as it takes Him to say it. I'm not saying it didn't happen that way, but I think He made it so complex just to show us how awesome He really is. I think with everything He created, including us, He put a whole day's worth of work into us, which is why we're so intricate and all of our details are so magnificent. So, this is what I think...

 

[Jim47]

Ok, I've read these verses many times before. From my point of view, the Big Bang Theory has been proven scientifically and I've seen programs on tv about it all the time. It all makes perfect sense. Like I said before, the only part I disagree with is that it "just happened". I know God made it happen.

It took God 7 whole days to create the heavens and the earth. Don't you think since he's such a mighty and awesome God that if He was just going to say it and it was created that it would take less than 7 days? Like a mere second or as long as it takes Him to say it. I'm not saying it didn't happen that way, but I think He made it so complex just to show us how awesome He really is. I think with everything He created, including us, He put a whole day's worth of work into us, which is why we're so intricate and all of our details are so magnificent. So, this is what I think...

As one person said earlier in this thread, there is no physical evedience that God exhists. This is quite true, and therefore there is no way to prove that God created the heavens and earth. As for it taking Him 7 days instead of just a moment, I'm sure God could have done it in a moment, but wouldn't that draw even more doubt into peoples faith who is weak?

The danger is not accepting the creation account as written is this: if you doubt creation then what else to do you doubt? When and where do you draw the line with your doubts and fears? Do you maybe doubt that Jesus really did come to rescue us? Do you doubt that He was raised from the dead? One little doubt can lead into many other doubts until one's faith is ship wrecked. I do not chastise anyone for faith that is weak, I am just trying to show the dangers in doubting, especially to those who are brand new believers. Does that make sence?

 

[Calminian]

The "how" is poetic, not factual. In that sense it offers no details of the how.

Can you offer any evidence from the text that it is meant poetically? Tell me what you see in the creation narrative that is different from what you see in the gospel narratives.

"I'm also curious. For those who wish to turn into 20th Century style history all the old testament stories, why do you not also turn into 20th century style history the psalms and new testament parables and metaphors? At least you'd be consistent. Do you not realize the OT is foundational to the NT?"

Trust me ebia you're confused about this. I allow the authors to convey what is literal and what is not. This is called exegesis. The issue has nothing to do with literal vs. non-literal. This is a strawman.

I'm not allegorizing anything - I'm taking it for what it is.

Yet you are withholding your methods. Tell us why you've decided Genesis is figurative and Matthew is not.

You seem to be confusing the descriptions with the events they are describing. The first Adam is mythological,

but stand for something very, very real

Many believe the same about Jesus and the Resurrection. To them you’re a hyper literalist. Tell me why they're wrong.