Depth of sin

[jameshjr]

Hello all,

i was hoping to get some opinions from more experienced Christians on something that i have been thinking a lot about recently: that being, the depth of our sins.

Every moment we could be doing more; we could always love a neighbor more than we do; we're never going to be as good as we ought to be.etc. etc.

So if that is true, then we are always falling short of Jesus's teachings and therefore we are always sinning.

If that's the case, then how do we not feel guilty all the time?

I know that Jesus died for our sins and paid the punishment for them, but to continue (unavoidably) sinning makes me feel shame and guilt anyways.

Is it possible to get to a stage where we accept that we are always sinning and be 'comfortable' with it, as Jesus died for us because we are sinners; and that all we can do is repent continually and thank God for the salvation He has given to continual sinners?

I guess i was hoping to be corrected, where i am wrong; or to have people whom have been caught on this and gotten past it.

thanks all.

 

[Lawrence87]

We tend not to feel guilty all the time because we don't have the self awareness to even realise the depths of our sinfulness.

It goes further than not doing what we ought to do, even the good we do is tainted by sin. I don't acknowledge my sinfulness through genuine humility, I do it because I think it pleases God because I want blessings from God for myself, I want eternal life, I want this, I want that. I can't think of any good deed that I have done with pure intentions, it's either been to please others or to please myself (even if it is done under the pretense of doing it to please God). We can do no good. This should not be cause for despair though, we should just put our entire being at God's mercy, because we cannot do anything good for ourselves. Even this view of things is not without conceit, even saying I can do nothing good I say so because I think it will please God and thus will elevate me somehow, there is no escape from it.

 

[jameshjr]

Hello Lawrence87, thanks for the reply.

So we ARE always sinning. So i am lazy, worthless, useless, vain, self-serving, conceited etc etc.

So what is the answer? to acknowledge this and ask for forgiveness?

 

[Lawrence87]

Hello Lawrence87, thanks for the reply.

So we ARE always sinning. So i am lazy, worthless, useless, vain, self-serving, conceited etc etc.

So what is the answer? to acknowledge this and ask for forgiveness?

You may get different answers, but yes essentially acknowledge your weakness before God, ask for His strength and mercy.

Try not to become too caught in guilt and shame, or to give up trying to live in a way that is pleasing to God. Just continue to acknowledge your weakness before God, as Him to reveal the extent of your sin to you, and as you realise just how much of a sinner you are use this for two things, firstly to put your trust in Chirst. You cannot escape your sin by your own efforts, you need Christ. And also looking at your own weakness use this as your means to stop judging and condemning others.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Hello all,

i was hoping to get some opinions from more experienced Christians on something that i have been thinking a lot about recently: that being, the depth of our sins.

Every moment we could be doing more; we could always love a neighbor more than we do; we're never going to be as good as we ought to be.etc. etc.

So if that is true, then we are always falling short of Jesus's teachings and therefore we are always sinning.

If that's the case, then how do we not feel guilty all the time?

I know that Jesus died for our sins and paid the punishment for them, but to continue (unavoidably) sinning makes me feel shame and guilt anyways.

Is it possible to get to a stage where we accept that we are always sinning and be 'comfortable' with it, as Jesus died for us because we are sinners; and that all we can do is repent continually and thank God for the salvation He has given to continual sinners?

I guess i was hoping to be corrected, where i am wrong; or to have people whom have been caught on this and gotten past it.

thanks all.

Words Are Seeds & Produce Life Or Death

Pro 18:21 Death & life are in the power of the tongue & they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof
(MY NOTE: We shall reap the fruit of the words we speak.)

Job 22:28 Decree a thing & it shall be established to you
(MY NOTE: Decree means, speak, proclaim, command)

Gen 1: "God SAID! (9 different times) & SAW the fruit of His good speech.

Ps 103:20 Bless the LORD, ye his angels, who excel in strength, & do his commandments, hearkening to the voice of his word
(MY NOTE: Mighty angels act on God's Spoken Words)

Throughout His ministry, Jesus, spoke: to fig trees, raging storms, sickness, water to wine, disease, demon possession, even death & ALL obeyed His words.

Pro 16:24 Pleasant words are as an honeycomb, sweet to the soul & health to the bones

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
(MY NOTE: Faith comes by hearing God's Spoken Word)

Rom 10:
9 If you will confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus & shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved
(MY NOTE: CONFESS & Believe!)

jameshjr,
I would recommend, take your understanding that you were bought with a price. Jesus paid ALL your sin debt in full. Leave sin & all the negative injustice it commands & pivot your speech to the positive aspects of life found in Christ.

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Daily recommended Decree/Command/Confession for a start:
I'm Redeemed/Forgiven/Eternally Saves by faith in Jesus sin atoning death & resurrection. I am more then a conquer in Christ (Rom 8:37) I can do all things thru Christ that strengthens me. (Phil 4:13) I am the righteousness of God thru Christ (2 Cor 5:21) Best wishes, JJ

 

[Micaiah-Imla]

I know that Jesus died for our sins and paid the punishment for them, but to continue (unavoidably) sinning makes me feel shame and guilt anyways.

According to scripture our past sins were forgiven, not future:

"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" (Romans 3:24-25)

Which is why this scripture should be sobering to believers:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." (Hebrews 10:26-27)

"For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God." (1 John 3:20-21)

 

[Astrifer]

I would first like to give my personal take, and then I will give general advice to you specifically.

Humans have inherited the effects of Adam and Eve's Original Sin in the Garden of Eden. While through Christ's sacrifice we may be forgiven for our sins, the tendency to sin remains. Your question is concerned with the guilt concerning our inability to smother the human inclination to sin. As a Catholic, the effects of Original Sin is something I (and the Church) take very seriously. The Sacrament of Penance gives us the opportunity to be forgiven for those sins which we accumulate as we go about living. It is an opportunity to have our sins washed away. If you sin, then you can go to Confession and be absolved. This is one of the many things I enjoy about Catholicism.

Now, some advice you may feel more pertinent to you as a non-Catholic. We are called to act like Christ, but as sinful humans, we cannot perfectly be like Christ - it is simply impossible. You should not necessarily be "comfortable" with sinning; rather, you should come to terms with your inability to fully divorce yourself from the tendency to sin. Do not stop trying to resist sin, but don't put impossible expectations on yourself. Finally, I would like to note that the fact you're feeling concerned/guilty about this indicates you have a desire to follow Christ, which is a laudable thing when compared to many of the people of our time.

 

[Lost4words]

We are indeed all sinners.

We have to try our best to be Holy. But, knowing that when we do fall, we have Our Lord to turn to. He is always there with open arms for us. Repent. God always forgives.

 

[jameshjr]

You may get different answers, but yes essentially acknowledge your weakness before God, ask for His strength and mercy.

Try not to become too caught in guilt and shame, or to give up trying to live in a way that is pleasing to God. Just continue to acknowledge your weakness before God, as Him to reveal the extent of your sin to you, and as you realise just how much of a sinner you are use this for two things, firstly to put your trust in Chirst. You cannot escape your sin by your own efforts, you need Christ. And also looking at your own weakness use this as your means to stop judging and condemning others.

Thanks Lawrence, i think that is a great answer an in line with what i was interpreting to be true; and amen to your point about using the knowledge of the extent of our sin to not judge others: it is something that goes hand in hand with this.

 

[jameshjr]

Words Are Seeds & Produce Life Or Death

Pro 18:21 Death & life are in the power of the tongue & they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof
(MY NOTE: We shall reap the fruit of the words we speak.)

Job 22:28 Decree a thing & it shall be established to you
(MY NOTE: Decree means, speak, proclaim, command)

Gen 1: "God SAID! (9 different times) & SAW the fruit of His good speech.

Ps 103:20 Bless the LORD, ye his angels, who excel in strength, & do his commandments, hearkening to the voice of his word
(MY NOTE: Mighty angels act on God's Spoken Words)

Throughout His ministry, Jesus, spoke: to fig trees, raging storms, sickness, water to wine, disease, demon possession, even death & ALL obeyed His words.

Pro 16:24 Pleasant words are as an honeycomb, sweet to the soul & health to the bones

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
(MY NOTE: Faith comes by hearing God's Spoken Word)

Rom 10:
9 If you will confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus & shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved
(MY NOTE: CONFESS & Believe!)

jameshjr,
I would recommend, take your understanding that you were bought with a price. Jesus paid ALL your sin debt in full. Leave sin & all the negative injustice it commands & pivot your speech to the positive aspects of life found in Christ.

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Daily recommended Decree/Command/Confession for a start:
I'm Redeemed/Forgiven/Eternally Saves by faith in Jesus sin atoning death & resurrection. I am more then a conquer in Christ (Rom 8:37) I can do all things thru Christ that strengthens me. (Phil 4:13) I am the righteousness of God thru Christ (2 Cor 5:21) Best wishes, JJ

Hello brotherjj, thanks for the message. there was a lot to take in there. I can see that you think it very important to speak in accord with Jesus's teachings and it is something i will try and keep more in mind going forward. I also like the daily confession you posted, i think that is a good thing to try to think f before i leave the house every morning.

 

[jameshjr]

According to scripture our past sins were forgiven, not future:

"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" (Romans 3:24-25)

Which is why this scripture should be sobering to believers:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." (Hebrews 10:26-27)

"For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God." (1 John 3:20-21)

Hello Micaiah-Imla, thanks for the message.

It is my understanding that Jesus died for all of our sins: past present and future. Though your quotes are good, however am believing more firmly that we are all sinning or at least falling short of Gods standards almost all the time, therefore if that is true, i do not think that God would condemn us for sinning after accepting Jesus as our Lord and saviour. I found this article made form an interview with John Piper that was on this subject:

Does the Bible Say True Christians Never Sin?

 

[jameshjr]

I would first like to give my personal take, and then I will give general advice to you specifically.

Humans have inherited the effects of Adam and Eve's Original Sin in the Garden of Eden. While through Christ's sacrifice we may be forgiven for our sins, the tendency to sin remains. Your question is concerned with the guilt concerning our inability to smother the human inclination to sin. As a Catholic, the effects of Original Sin is something I (and the Church) take very seriously. The Sacrament of Penance gives us the opportunity to be forgiven for those sins which we accumulate as we go about living. It is an opportunity to have our sins washed away. If you sin, then you can go to Confession and be absolved. This is one of the many things I enjoy about Catholicism.

Now, some advice you may feel more pertinent to you as a non-Catholic. We are called to act like Christ, but as sinful humans, we cannot perfectly be like Christ - it is simply impossible. You should not necessarily be "comfortable" with sinning; rather, you should come to terms with your inability to fully divorce yourself from the tendency to sin. Do not stop trying to resist sin, but don't put impossible expectations on yourself. Finally, I would like to note that the fact you're feeling concerned/guilty about this indicates you have a desire to follow Christ, which is a laudable thing when compared to many of the people of our time.

Hello Astrifer, thank you for the message, it was very concise and i followed all of it.

i think i am becoming more aware of how deep and pervasive our sin nature is, which i guess is a good thing.

God bless.

 

[jameshjr]

We are indeed all sinners.

We have to try our best to be Holy. But, knowing that when we do fall, we have Our Lord to turn to. He is always there with open arms for us. Repent. God always forgives.

Hello Lost4words, thank you for the message, it was a great way of sum up of what i have taken from the thread.

 

[Micaiah-Imla]

@jameshjr

I would strongly recommend spending a lot more time reading a good translation of the holy scriptures (like the KJV) and less time listening to men like John Piper.

"But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings." (Jeremiah 23:22)

 

[jameshjr]

@jameshjr

I would strongly recommend spending a lot more time reading a good translation of the holy scriptures (like the KJV) and less time listening to men like John Piper.

"But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings." (Jeremiah 23:22)

Thank you for the reply. when i dont know the answer to a question, i tend to watch youtube videos or find articles as i do not yet know the bible well enough to find quotes. You dont like John?

 

[Micaiah-Imla]

You dont like John?

I love John, as we are commanded by the Lord to love our enemies. I just hate his teachings. I spend a lot of time reading the scriptures:

"Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way." (Psalms 119:104)

 

[BrotherJJ]

Hello brotherjj, thanks for the message. there was a lot to take in there. I can see that you think it very important to speak in accord with Jesus's teachings and it is something i will try and keep more in mind going forward. I also like the daily confession you posted, i think that is a good thing to try to think f before i leave the house every morning.

Hi James,
A few more words of encouragement

REMISSION
KJV Dictionary Definition: REMISSION
Forgiveness; pardon; that is, the giving up of the punishment due to a crime; as the remission of sins. Matt. 26. Heb. 9.
(MY NOTE: Remission = Pardon.)

Thayer's Greek Lexicon, G859: REMISSION
1. release, as from bondage, imprisonment, etc.: Luke 4:18 (19) (Isaiah 61:1f; Polybius 1, 79, 12, etc.).
2. forgiveness, pardon, of sins (properly, the letting them go, as if they had not been committed, remission of their penalty:
(MY NOTE: Remission = FORGIVENESS, PARDON, of sins (properly, the letting them go, as if they had not been committed.)

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
(MY NOTE: It's Belief/ faith in Christ's sinless shed blood & resurrection that provides Full Pardon/Remission for sins.)

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the """purchased possession""" unto the praise of his glory.
(MY NOTE: This EARNEST/God's Holy Spirit that indwells us: Is our covenant promise keeping God/Christ's, 1st installment, down payment, a guaranteed promised/pledge to the PURCHASED POSSESSION/done deal, of the believers eternal life inheritance.

Eph 4:30 The Holy Spirit of God, whereby """ye are sealed unto the day of redemption"""
(MY NOTE: Sealed with Christ Holy Spirit until the day of redemption)

Holy Spirit verses as a Seal/Promise 2 Cor 1:22, 2 Timothy 1:14, 2 Cor 5:5.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the """gift of the Holy Ghost""".
(MY NOTE: The Holy Spirit is a GIFT from God.)

Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the """gift of the Holy Ghost""".
(MY NOTE: The Holy Spirit is a GIFT from God. Gifts are given, not earned)

Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(MY NOTE: The Eternal life giving Holy Spirit is an irrevocable GIFT given by a trustworthy God. Thru Faith placed in Jesus sin atoning death & resurrection)

Final thought: The Heb 10 verse invariably taken out of context. The in context atrocity these Hebrews, in the verse, are guilty of:

After knowing that Jesus was their long promised Messiah/Redeemer they (to avoid Pharisee persecution) brought animal sin offerings to the temple priests.

I know you haven't nor ever will do this, because, there in NO temple (destroyed 70 AD) to bring an animal sin sacrifice to.

Find additional resources here:
If we are sinning willfully after we receive, there remains no more sacrifice for sins

Heb 10 overall context:

"BETER SACRIFICE" is the context in the following:
Verse's: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 11, 12.

"New Better Covenant" is the context in:
Verse's: 9, 10, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21.

In 18 of the first 21 verses context is:

"BETTER SACRIFICE or NEW BETTER COVENANT"

Taking 1-2 verses (post#6) & building a doctrine is problematic to say the least. Shalom, JJ

 

[Psalm 27]

Hello all,

i was hoping to get some opinions from more experienced Christians on something that i have been thinking a lot about recently: that being, the depth of our sins.

Every moment we could be doing more; we could always love a neighbor more than we do; we're never going to be as good as we ought to be.etc. etc.

So if that is true, then we are always falling short of Jesus's teachings and therefore we are always sinning.

If that's the case, then how do we not feel guilty all the time?

I know that Jesus died for our sins and paid the punishment for them, but to continue (unavoidably) sinning makes me feel shame and guilt anyways.

Is it possible to get to a stage where we accept that we are always sinning and be 'comfortable' with it, as Jesus died for us because we are sinners; and that all we can do is repent continually and thank God for the salvation He has given to continual sinners?

I guess i was hoping to be corrected, where i am wrong; or to have people whom have been caught on this and gotten past it.

thanks all.

I haven’t got past it. I feel guilty ALL the time (All have fallen short). In the past I, busied myself with ‘works’ which does help my feelings, but I now realise that I probably wasn’t actually doing The Lord’s will, just trying to please Him (and church).

I may be wrong, but I now believe that

1. praising and worshipping Him is all i can do (until He tells me different).

2. Give Bibles to the unsaved.

3. Help people whenever I get an opportunity.

4. try to love and pray for others.

5. Try not to sin.

Ps. I have been delivered of certain sins/addictions, where I thought I had to ‘master’ them. I also believe in entire sanctification

 

[jameshjr]

I love John, as we are commanded by the Lord to love our enemies. I just hate his teachings. I spend a lot of time reading the scriptures:

"Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way." (Psalms 119:104)

I love John, as we are commanded by the Lord to love our enemies. I just hate his teachings. I spend a lot of time reading the scriptures:

"Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way." (Psalms 119:104)

That is fair. Though i heard one of his podcast clips yesterday, where the caller asked him a question and said that he spends a lot of time listening to johns podcasts; and to johns credit, he said that the man should spend less time listening to him and others and more time reading the bible: which is something i am guilty of and need to adjust my ratios in this regard.

 

[jameshjr]

Hi James,
A few more words of encouragement

REMISSION
KJV Dictionary Definition: REMISSION
Forgiveness; pardon; that is, the giving up of the punishment due to a crime; as the remission of sins. Matt. 26. Heb. 9.
(MY NOTE: Remission = Pardon.)

Thayer's Greek Lexicon, G859: REMISSION
1. release, as from bondage, imprisonment, etc.: Luke 4:18 (19) (Isaiah 61:1f; Polybius 1, 79, 12, etc.).
2. forgiveness, pardon, of sins (properly, the letting them go, as if they had not been committed, remission of their penalty:
(MY NOTE: Remission = FORGIVENESS, PARDON, of sins (properly, the letting them go, as if they had not been committed.)

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
(MY NOTE: It's Belief/ faith in Christ's sinless shed blood & resurrection that provides Full Pardon/Remission for sins.)

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the """purchased possession""" unto the praise of his glory.
(MY NOTE: This EARNEST/God's Holy Spirit that indwells us: Is our covenant promise keeping God/Christ's, 1st installment, down payment, a guaranteed promised/pledge to the PURCHASED POSSESSION/done deal, of the believers eternal life inheritance.

Eph 4:30 The Holy Spirit of God, whereby """ye are sealed unto the day of redemption"""
(MY NOTE: Sealed with Christ Holy Spirit until the day of redemption)

Holy Spirit verses as a Seal/Promise 2 Cor 1:22, 2 Timothy 1:14, 2 Cor 5:5.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the """gift of the Holy Ghost""".
(MY NOTE: The Holy Spirit is a GIFT from God.)

Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the """gift of the Holy Ghost""".
(MY NOTE: The Holy Spirit is a GIFT from God. Gifts are given, not earned)

Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(MY NOTE: The Eternal life giving Holy Spirit is an irrevocable GIFT given by a trustworthy God. Thru Faith placed in Jesus sin atoning death & resurrection)

Final thought: The Heb 10 verse invariably taken out of context. The in context atrocity these Hebrews, in the verse, are guilty of:

After knowing that Jesus was their long promised Messiah/Redeemer they (to avoid Pharisee persecution) brought animal sin offerings to the temple priests.

I know you haven't nor ever will do this, because, there in NO temple (destroyed 70 AD) to bring an animal sin sacrifice to.

Find additional resources here:
If we are sinning willfully after we receive, there remains no more sacrifice for sins

Heb 10 overall context:

"BETER SACRIFICE" is the context in the following:
Verse's: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 11, 12.

"New Better Covenant" is the context in:
Verse's: 9, 10, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21.

In 18 of the first 21 verses context is:

"BETTER SACRIFICE or NEW BETTER COVENANT"

Taking 1-2 verses (post#6) & building a doctrine is problematic to say the least. Shalom, JJ

BrotherJJ thank you for the scripture, and i will have a look at the article.