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That's rather different than the direct cut and dry statement of "no salvation outside the Catholic Church" which you said the Catholic Church teaches.Church teaching:
"The members of the Church are those who have validly received the Sacrament of Baptism and who are not separated from the unity of the confession of the Faith, and from the unity of the lawful communion of the Church."
No it is not. A valid Baptism makes one part of His Body, which is His One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church (Catholic Church). Now whether one then separates from Her after Baptism is the question.That's rather different than the direct cut and dry statement of "no salvation outside the Catholic Church" which you said the Catholic Church teaches.
If you are really interested there is an extensive narrative in the Catholic Catechism: Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 9 PARAGRAPH 3That's rather different than the direct cut and dry statement of "no salvation outside the Catholic Church" which you said the Catholic Church teaches.
I'm glad to see there are many Catholics not afraid to proclaim the truth.They say that all the time on the message boards.
Those that began your denomination were heretics. You have arrived here through no fault of your own. If you are not Catholic, you have learned a little. We invite you to the fullness of the faithI'm glad for Vatican II, in part because reclassifying me from "heretic" to "separated brethren" is quite an upgrade.
It sounds to me like you are making the human mind the arbiter of truth. Paraphrase,” I want to find a group that teaches the Bible the way I think it should be taught.”Saying that a healthy Christian outlook is to say "I have searched and the group I am in is teaching what I find the Bible to teach" is a healthy POV Then to stay on that road of looking into what the Bible says and checking that things still match up with the group you are in (or else finding they do not) is the right path and that is what Timothy found out according to the Apostle Paul.
Timothy accepted the light he had - and when he got more light - he made the necessary change.
But that just shows why we can't claim that someone with a flaw in their theology is not saved - Paul said Timothy was saved as a child
The "nobody saved but us" led the Jews down a very bad road and in the dark ages it lead to things like "the doctrine of discovery" and the "extermination of heretics" in the LATERAN IV declaration
It sounds to me like you are making the human mind the arbiter of truth.
Because no one else will be thinking for you in your choices ... which you alone will be held accountable for according to 2 Cor 5:10Paraphrase,” I want to find a group that teaches the Bible the way I think it should be taught.”
It is Christian because the Christian Bible tells us that God ordained that we all have to make choices and all are held accountable for those choices.How is that Christian?
Indeed the Bible calls us to repentance - but we have to "choose" to repent or resist in rebellion. That is just the way it is.We need to be called to repentance.
Which does not happen until we choose Christ, accept the gospel... choose to submit.Our thoughts are wrong and we need to be conformed to the mind of Christ.
You won't be "obeying in your sleep" -- to obey you must hear and then choose to act as Paul reminds us in Rom 2:13 "it is not the HEARERS of the LAW that are just before God, but the DOERS of the LAW will be justified"The Bible says that God desires obedience rather than sacrifice.
And continued by every one who hears/reads the Gospel chooses to accept and then passes that on to their children.His Church was founded at Pentecost by the Holy Spirt through the Apostles.
No doubt - we live in a sea of truth, error, and also truth-mixed with error. We must choose.Many groups competed with them at the time and still do today.
Because they wrote scripture and told us what correct doctrine is.How do you know that you have the Apostolic faith?
You cannot play the Bible - you have to read it and be guided by the Holy SpiritThe Bible is an instrument. You can play it
That is where it ends up - we have to choose... no one will choose for us.Your choice
You still did not answer the question. How do you know that you are in the truth? So far you have only put forth your own understanding of the Bible as proof, and then want to blame the Holy Spirit if you are wrong, as He is your only other appeal.God sovereignly ordains that humans have free will even though we only have finite knowledge. By definition that means each person will be accountable for their own choices as they are forever encountering truth, error and truth-mixed-with error. We ask the supernatural guidance of God the Holy Spirit to guide us in this life.
You call that role of individual responsibility "arbiter of truth" but you don't have any way of handing your brain over to someone else - so however you choose to label it -- it is the same result.
Because no one else will be thinking for you in your choices ... which you alone will be held accountable for according to 2 Cor 5:10
"each one of us must stand before the judgment seat of Christ to give an account"... 2 Cor 5:10
"it is appointed unto man - once to die and then comes the judgment" Heb 9.
There is no way out of it.
It is Christian because the Christian Bible tells us that God ordained that we all have to make choices and all are held accountable for those choices.
Indeed the Bible calls us to repentance - but we have to "choose" to repent or resist in rebellion. That is just the way it is.
Which does not happen until we choose Christ, accept the gospel... choose to submit.
"I stand at the door and KNOCK, if anyone OPENS the door - I will come in" Rev 3.
You won't be "obeying in your sleep" -- to obey you must hear and then choose to act as Paul reminds us in Rom 2:13 "it is not the HEARERS of the LAW that are just before God, but the DOERS of the LAW will be justified"
Matt 7 Jesus speaks of those that hear His words AND then choose to DO what He said as "building their house on a Rock"
And continued by every one who hears/reads the Gospel chooses to accept and then passes that on to their children.
No doubt - we live in a sea of truth, error, and also truth-mixed with error. We must choose.
Because they wrote scripture and told us what correct doctrine is.
"they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - WERE SO" Acts 17:11
Christ demonstrates that model for us in Mark 7:6-13 -- as He slam hammered the traditions and doctrines of the One True nation church started by God at Sinai - with infallible systems of succession of high priest -- that went wrong over time. so we choose to walk as He walked
You cannot play the Bible - you have to read it and be guided by the Holy Spirit
. 20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth. ...26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27 And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him remains in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you remain in Him.
John 16 "The Spirit of Truth will guide you into all truth"
That is where it ends up - we have to choose... no one will choose for us.
Read the Bible - believe the Bible. Guided by the Holy Spirit who authored the Bible.You still did not answer the question. How do you know that you are in the truth?
Indeed - I am not accessing another person's "mind" when I post. I am posting what I understand to be true - as you are also doing.So far you have only put forth your own understanding of the Bible
Nope this is not a "blame game" - this is the path of sola-scriptura testing that Christ demonstrated in Mark 7:6-13. And the told us to follow His example.as proof, and then want to blame the Holy Spirit if you are wrong
Hence the "Sola scriptura testing" detail above.There are many spirits other then the Holy Spirit that will attempt to guide men.
Not true as we see in 1 John 2The promise of leading into all truth and the gates of hell not prevailing was given to the Church, not to individuals.
Fine - so was Paul and Luke as we see in Acts 17:11 whee they are approved for using that methodArius was as a sola scripturist.
Same was true of Christ, of Paul, of John in 1 John 2. That did not make them "Wrong"He believed he was right
Not true.When you preach the Bible, you are playing it like an instrument
So do you. You have an interpretation that you want others to follow.
Agree with that part - your eternity depends on whether you submit to scripture, to the Word of God - or else setup your own "experience" as the judge of scripture ignoring it as it suits you. It is an important detail to consider.How do you known that you are playing the right tune and not in error like Arius? Your eternity depends on it.
The Church does not teach those who are not Catholic are automatically damned. That's heresy.That's rather different than the direct cut and dry statement of "no salvation outside the Catholic Church" which you said the Catholic Church teaches.
That's really wonderful. So, will I, as a Protestant Christian, spend some time in Purgatory after I die, or will I enter heaven directly because Purgatory does not exist?The Church does not teach those who are not Catholic are automatically damned. That's heresy.
And just to add something……I’m a former Catholic, currently Lutheran LCMS. If Purgatory exists, do non Catholics go there?That's really wonderful. So, will I, as a Protestant Christian, spend some time in Purgatory after I die, or will I enter heaven directly because Purgatory does not exist?
To try to clear up some confusion in this topic, let's just note what the Catechism of the Catholic Church explicitly says on the subject (footnotes removed):That's rather different than the direct cut and dry statement of "no salvation outside the Catholic Church" which you said the Catholic Church teaches.
The purification spoken of in the Bible is what Catholics call purgatory. Catholics believe the Bible is the Word of God, so believe you me that purification exists although we know almost nothing about it.That's really wonderful. So, will I, as a Protestant Christian, spend some time in Purgatory after I die, or will I enter heaven directly because Purgatory does not exist?
But will A Protestant go to Purgatory to be purified? IOW, do Protestants go to heaven?The purification spoken of in the Bible is what Catholics call purgatory. Catholics believe the Bible is the Word of God, so believe you me that purification exists although we know almost nothing about it.
I highly suggest you research prayers for the dead in the early church. This is an entirely different topic.That's really wonderful. So, will I, as a Protestant Christian, spend some time in Purgatory after I die, or will I enter heaven directly because Purgatory does not exist?
YesBut will A Protestant go to Purgatory to be purified? IOW, do Protestants go to heaven?
What qualifies as a valid baptism?The Church teaches, all validly Baptized people who die in a state of Grace attain Heaven. As Scripture and the Church both teach, we may need to be purified.
Trinitarian formula.What qualifies as a valid baptism?
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