Defunding Planned Parenthood

Miss Shelby · Aug 3, 2015

MikeK said:
No, it is mostly adults.

I wonder then, why in heaven's name it would be suggested that 16 year old girls mandatorily get a birth control implant that they can opt out of later. I am not directing this at you. The idea is the most insane that I have heard in a while. And doesn't it defeat the whole pro choice argument of letting females decide what to do with their bodies? Besides that, there ARE still some good girls out there. It's so unrealistic to ask a teenage girl who isn't even sexually active to get an implant. No, not 'ask' but mandate. Nuts.

Miss Shelby · Aug 3, 2015

to whoever posted that USA today article about the Catholic hospital, it's not a big surprise that many rogue forms of Catholic establishments exist.

brewmama · Aug 4, 2015

Miss Shelby said:
to whoever posted that USA today article about the Catholic hospital, it's not a big surprise that many rogue forms of Catholic establishments exist.

If it was in Colorado, it's true that the unborn is not protected legally, hence the lack of murder charges at the woman who cut the baby out of another woman's womb, subsequently the baby died.

Not to mention this sad story...
http://www.lifenews.com/2015/07/29/...-baby-on-their-grill-not-charged-with-murder/

This happens because pro abortion activists absolutely refuse to allow a fetus to be considered a person. It's a legal call, not necessarily the Church's.

ebia · Aug 4, 2015

rubyinprogress said:
Just because they are "non-profit" doesn't mean no one is profiting.

That's exactly what the phrase means. It means that any income from one service is ploughed back into another. There are no members, or owners, to pay out to.

lucen15 · Aug 4, 2015

MoonlessNight said:
I don't think I've ever seen a report which defends Planned Parenthood which doesn't get its numbers from either Planned Parenthood itself or the Guttmacher institute.

I bet Marlboro wishes that it had it so good.

I actually did a lot of digging the last time this "study" (really a press release claiming "only 3% of Planned Parenthood's services are abortions") came up and I found some interesting things.

Here you will see that about 11-13% of Planned Parenthood's clients receive abortions. It also turned out that 9-30% of their income (it wasn't possible to be more precise due to lack of data) comes from abortions.

Here you will see that 96% of the services that Planned Parenthood provided to pregnant women were abortions and that they conducted about a third of the abortions performed in the US.

No matter how you look at it the "only 3% of services are abortion" figure is highly misleading. Abortion is a key part of their business.

The only data on the other side comes from Planned Parenthood's own press releases, with their own counting methods. But would you trust a Marlboro press release which said that secondhand smoke was not dangerous?

Yeah i wished that your facts weren't completely twisted i should have known better than to think someone with such an alien agenda would accept basic facts, no 96 % of services provided are not abortions, if they were it would be an estimated 10560351.36 abortions provided in 2010, while i do know that they do make money from the organs of the fetuses and then sell it to hospitals and scientists for research they try to charge enough to cover only the transportation expenses something that you'd see if you actually watched the footage of the WHOLE story right here:

Armoured · Aug 4, 2015

As I was saying said:
Oh dear oh dear. The questions get more stupid by the minute.

translation: Don't ask questions I can't answer.

Armoured · Aug 4, 2015

Miss Shelby said:
I wonder then, why in heaven's name it would be suggested that 16 year old girls mandatorily get a birth control implant that they can opt out of later. I am not directing this at you. The idea is the most insane that I have heard in a while. And doesn't it defeat the whole pro choice argument of letting females decide what to do with their bodies? Besides that, there ARE still some good girls out there. It's so unrealistic to ask a teenage girl who isn't even sexually active to get an implant. No, not 'ask' but mandate. Nuts.

I never said anything about "mandatory", but please, do continue to strawman a suggestion made in good faith while failing to provide any better ones.

Armoured · Aug 4, 2015

Rhamiel said:
murder and contraception are both moral evils and if done with full knowledge and freedom then they are mortal sins that will condemn a soul to hell for all eternity

so yes, they can be compared to one another
though murder is much more evil
it is a difference of degree, not of kind

So, you're telling me that after you succeed in banning abortion, contraception is next on the block?

paulm50 · Aug 4, 2015

MikeK said:
Tax dollars should not go to Planned Parenthood.

Are you prepared to pay more taxes to support the children?

More taxes for more schools, better health care, more housing, benefits for the unemployed, etc. Or does your responsibility for the children end after conception?

The US has a major problem with population growth. It either reduces it or those with good jobs pay a lot in taxes, to stop the poor rebelling.

MikeK · Aug 4, 2015

paulm50 said:
Are you prepared to pay more taxes to support the children?

Absolutely!

More taxes for more schools, better health care, more housing, benefits for the unemployed, etc. Or does your responsibility for the children end after conception?

I think our taxes are too low and our safety nets too small. I have been blessed with a modestly good career and I see no reason why I or others in my shoes shouldn't want to provide the best upbringing we can to all children.

Fantine · Aug 4, 2015

Is anyone sure how this money is dispensed? Is $528 million just handed over or is it given as "fees for services?" For example, if Medicaid pays $20 for a pap smear, and Planned Parenthood gives 50,000 pap smears, is $1 million for pap smears? And if they gave pap smears to 100,000 people would they get $2 million?

We have already established that, because of the Hyde Amendment, there is no reimbursement for abortions, so that's off the table.

If this money goes to them as fees for services, and they are providing the services, I think it would be illegal to deny them reimbursement if the services were performed by licensed medical professionals.

grandvizier1006 · Aug 4, 2015

Fantine said:
Is anyone sure how this money is dispensed? Is $528 million just handed over or is it given as "fees for services?" For example, if Medicaid pays $20 for a pap smear, and Planned Parenthood gives 50,000 pap smears, is $1 million for pap smears? And if they gave pap smears to 100,000 people would they get $2 million?

We have already established that, because of the Hyde Amendment, there is no reimbursement for abortions, so that's off the table.

If this money goes to them as fees for services, and they are providing the services, I think it would be illegal to deny them reimbursement if the services were performed by licensed medical professionals.

That doesn't sound like a loophole? "uh, yeah, we'll give you your organs for free, just pay shipping and handling!" I just think taking unborn babies and harvesting their organs without consent is barbaric, much worse than anything that liberals say is "hateful and bigoted". So I'd ssimply want there to be some law that says no organ harvesting without consent--and since fetuses aren't considered human beings, they can have the woman getting the abortion agree to it. If a woman is asked and agrees to allow her baby to be used in that way, ok.

If this was a person's cat, for example, being harvested for its organs if the vets tried and failed to,save it from some life-threatening illness, I'm sure the owners would not like having their cat's organs harvested without their consent, eh?

Miss Shelby · Aug 4, 2015

Armoured said:
I never said anything about "mandatory", but please, do continue to strawman a suggestion made in good faith while failing to provide any better ones.

It's a very pitiful idea regardless. You didn't think that one through, did you? As for my contribution, I raise my daughters to make moral decisions. So far they have. I also suggest that maybe fathers stay with their families. I have all of these really outlandish ideas about stuff like that, problem is, it requires everyone to take responsibility for themselves and their own. Can we teach more of that stuff, or should we just suggest that girls get implanted with birth control devices at the first sign of menses?

MoonlessNight · Aug 4, 2015

lucen15 said:
Yeah i wished that your facts weren't completely twisted i should have known better than to think someone with such an alien agenda would accept basic facts, no 96 % of services provided are not abortions,

I did not say that 96% of services provided were abortions, but that 96% of services provided for pregnant women were abortions.

It is true that the average client of Planned Parenthood is not there to get an abortion. But if a pregnant women walks into a Planned Parenthood clinic, it is overwhelmingly likely that it is for an abortion.

In any case the methodology for the stats that I got is listed in the linked posts. They are only "twisted" to the extent that they don't follow Planned Parenthood press releases.

pdudgeon · Aug 4, 2015

paulm50 said:
Are you prepared to pay more taxes to support the children?

More taxes for more schools, better health care, more housing, benefits for the unemployed, etc. Or does your responsibility for the children end after conception?

The US has a major problem with population growth. It either reduces it or those with good jobs pay a lot in taxes, to stop the poor rebelling.

The U.S. does not have a major problem with population growth due to the number of births.
Growth in births has slowed down in recent years and is now barely above replacement level.
There is a growth in the number of immigrants, but that's another topic.

one thing that you have forgotten is that those children who are not aborted will grow up and get jobs and start contributing to the unemployment benefits,
the health care, the taxes, and the social security fund. Some of them will become doctors, nurses, med techs, teachers etc.

but if those same children are aborted then we will see lower numbers in the social security fund, fewer doctors, etc.
In other words, when the generation that is aborting children gets older, who will be there to take care of them?
swords have two edges for a very good reason---if one side doesn't get you, the other one will.

Arcangl86 · Aug 4, 2015

brewmama said:
All the clinics that will get the money instead, that don't do abortions.

You mean like the majority of Planned Parenthood clinics? Most of them don't provide abortions.

Rhamiel · Aug 4, 2015

Armoured said:
So, you're telling me that after you succeed in banning abortion, contraception is next on the block?

oh no, I do not want to ban contraceptives
I think getting drunk is evil too
but I would never make it illegal

WarriorAngel · Aug 4, 2015

lucen15 said:
Yeah i wished that your facts weren't completely twisted i should have known better than to think someone with such an alien agenda would accept basic facts, no 96 % of services provided are not abortions, if they were it would be an estimated 10560351.36 abortions provided in 2010, while i do know that they do make money from the organs of the fetuses and then sell it to hospitals and scientists for research they try to charge enough to cover only the transportation expenses something that you'd see if you actually watched the footage of the WHOLE story right here:

WarriorAngel · Aug 4, 2015

Arcangl86 said:
You mean like the majority of Planned Parenthood clinics? Most of them don't provide abortions.

O really?
So you have the information to show us.. im guessing.

brewmama · Aug 4, 2015

Arcangl86 said:
You mean like the majority of Planned Parenthood clinics? Most of them don't provide abortions.

Really? Where do you get your info?

"4. Planned Parenthood’s business model is centered on abortion. Former Planned Parenthood clinic director Abby Johnson has written that she was given an abortion quota, and was even told by her superiors to “double the number of abortions” in order to bring in more revenue.[vii] Abortion patients constitute 12 percent of Planned Parenthood clients -- 332,000 of 3 million unduplicated clients in its most current report. 37 percent of all Planned Parenthood clinic income revenue is from abortion procedures, according to conservative estimates. Planned Parenthood has issued a directive instructing that all affiliates must have at least one clinic that performs abortion by 2013.[viii] According to an NBC news report from December 2012, out of the “74 regional affiliates” a handful of those affiliates chose to leave the organization, rather than comply with the policy. [ix]"
http://www.sba-list.org/suzy-b-blog/top-12-reasons-defund-planned-parenthood-now

And no, I meant all the clinics that help men, women and children, as opposed to just women, and actually provide services like mammograms, which PP doesn't.

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