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AV1611VET

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Wiccan_Child said:
The set of people, myself included, who do not know who wrote the Bible.
If you know who wrote the Bible, please, tell us, and give your reasoning.
Click to expand...

See Post 79.
 
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FishFace

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AV1611VET said:
His name is right on the cover.

Click to expand...

Did you read the front cover? The Bible was not authored by itself.

Like you guys do your "science" books?
Click to expand...

Name one science book which you think someone I think is infallible. Or any other person who accepts evolution.

Or if yours said, "By Carl Sagan" --- same thing, right?
Click to expand...

Yes. Because I could have swapped the cover, or I could have had a new cover printed, or the author could have been lying, or delusional.

Indeed, we can never have absolute proof of authorship. We can have very solid evidence of authorship, and in most cases, "By X" is good enough, but if your absolute certainty in what the book says relies on who wrote it, then it's not absolutely certain unless you're absolutely certain of the author, is it?

And you're not absolutely certain of the author. Not at all.
 
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FishFace

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AV1611VET said:
More than that --- the Bible proves so.
Click to expand...



So you know the Bible is true because...
The Bible is authored by an infallible God which you know because...
The Bible says it's authored by an infallible God which you know is true because...
The Bible is true because...The Bible is authored by an infallible God which you know because...
The Bible says it's authored by an infallible God which you know is true because...
The Bible is true because...The Bible is authored by an infallible God which you know because...
The Bible says it's authored by an infallible God which you know is true because...
The Bible is true because...
The Bible is authored by an infallible God which you know because...
The Bible says it's authored by an infallible God which you know is true because...
The Bible is true because...
The Bible is authored by an infallible God which you know because...
The Bible says it's authored by an infallible God which you know is true because...
The Bible is true because...

Get the picture?
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Inan3 said:
Yes, authors usually do that.
Click to expand...
Consider the following: God hasn't written the Bible, and the true author(s) pretended that God had written it.
How is this distinguishable to God actually writing it?

If you see a book accredited to Carl Sagan, how do you know it was actually written by him?
 
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Inan3

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How do I know that you are really writing to me. Are you actually Wiccan-Child? Give us a break!

The real question is how do you know that all that science data that was written down as your "so called" evidence was not fudged. You don't? From the posters I have seen here and the way they purposefully twist things I would have no doubts that others, just as self incriminating as you all, would not also, do the same and twist a little here, fudge a little there. When I first came on I thought, maybe I was a little hard on this evolution bit, but when I have been presented with the overwhelming evidence of the methods and tactics of those posting here I am more convinced that I was right.
 
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Inan3

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Luk 6:25 Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

Get the picture?
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Inan3 said:
How do I know that you are really writing to me. Are you actually Wiccan-Child? Give us a break!
Click to expand...
Because you are responding to whoever wrote the text. You don't know who I am, you don't know if there are millions of individuals who have identicle accounts to my own.
But the evidence suggests that Wiccan_Child is one user, given the nature of the forum, the similarity in all Wiccan_Child's posts, etc.
There is no proof, but there is evidence.
That said, you don't know who Wiccan_Child is. Is it male? Female? Asian? European? South African? Buddhist? Hindu? Atheist? Evolutionist? Creationist? You don't know, but you can reasonably assume.

However, when we consider the Bible, the style of writing changes dramatically; hell, it even changes languages towards the end.

There is no evidence to support the claim that the Bible was written, or even inspired, by God.

Inan3 said:
The real question is how do you know that all that science data that was written down as your "so called" evidence was not fudged.
Click to expand...
Because it is reasonable to make such assumptions.

For example, how do you know that the photons hitting your retina are not manipulated in some way? How do you know that what you are percieving isn't the product of a highly advanced VR unit, and that you aren't just some brain in a jar?
You don't?
But you assume otherwise.
How do you know Israel exists? How do you know Australia exists? How do you know that, when you travel there, you aren't being flown to some alien geography? How do you know the global continents are as they are?
You don't.
But you assume otherwise.

Likewise, it is pragmatic to assume that surveys done are valid: that is what peer review is for.

Inan3 said:
You don't? From the posters I have seen here and the way they purposefully twist things I would have no doubts that others, just as self incriminating as you all, would not also, do the same and twist a little here, fudge a little there.
Click to expand...
Wow, chip on your shoulder much?
Could you give us an example of 'fudging' in plethora of evidence for Common Descent (or any other scientific theory)?

Inan3 said:
When I first came on I thought, maybe I was a little hard on this evolution bit, but when I have been presented with the overwhelming evidence of the methods and tactics of those posting here I am more convinced that I was right.
Click to expand...
Tin foil hats! Get your tin foil hats!
 
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peteos

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You don't? From the posters I have seen here and the way they purposefully twist things I would have no doubts that others, just as self incriminating as you all, would not also, do the same and twist a little here, fudge a little there.
Click to expand...

You think the evidence for common descent is a massive conspiracy of fudged data spanning 150 years, and tens of thousands of scientists from all over the world?
 
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Aron-Ra

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Inan3 said:
Luk 6:25 Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

Get the picture?
Click to expand...
Aah yes, the empty threat. Cornered against reason, the desperate creationist is forced to pull out this pathetic squirt-gun again; as if any truly "superior" being would judge us solely on whether we're gullable enough to believe impossible nonsense despite all evidence to the contrary.
 
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AV1611VET

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TheOutsider said:
I take it you have never heard of Ghost Writers.
Click to expand...

Whee! --- Did you set yourself up for this one!

2 Peter 1:21 said:
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Click to expand...

 
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Inan3

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Wiccan_Child said:
However, when we consider the Bible, the style of writing changes dramatically; hell, it even changes languages towards the end.

There is no evidence to support the claim that the Bible was written, or even inspired, by God.
Click to expand...

No one has ever claimed otherwise. The personality of the one being used by God always comes through.

Not that it is going to matter to you that I say this but regardless, there is plenty of evidence in peoples lives that one could "assume" as you say, that it is reasonable to believe that God has inspired the writings of the Bible. It is more than just a natural book.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Inan3 said:
No one has ever claimed otherwise. The personality of the one being used by God always comes through.
Click to expand...
Do elaborate.

On the contrary, the beneficial effects of theological beliefs has no weight whatsoever on the validity of the beliefs themselves. Belief in an afterlife may be very comforting, but this comfort is hardly proof of the afterlife itself.
Indeed, this 'placebo' effect is evident no matter what religion you look at. By your logic, we should call all religions true. So why don't you?
 
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Loudmouth

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Inan3 said:
The real question is how do you know that all that science data that was written down as your "so called" evidence was not fudged. You don't?
Click to expand...

Correct. All of the data could be fudged. The cool thing about science is that you can check the data yourself. Do humans and chimps really share 200,000 orthologous ERV's? If the data is fudged then it would be revealed by sequencing the human and chimp genomes in your own lab. You don't believe that the CMB anisotropy is real? Send up your own satellite and measure it. You don't believe that rocks contain a specific amount of isotopes? Measure it yourself. You don't believe that Lucy is intermediate between humans and our common ancestor with chimps? Look at the fossil yourself.

The evidence that science uses is objective and repeatable. Therefore, theories are not based on authority but on evidence that is independent of any one person.

But how does this work in religion? I don't believe that the Bible was inspired by God or any supernatural deity. So what objective evidence can you give me that says otherwise? None.

From the posters I have seen here and the way they purposefully twist things I would have no doubts that others, just as self incriminating as you all, would not also, do the same and twist a little here, fudge a little there.
Click to expand...

Prove it. Either supply the evidence or withdraw the claim. I mean it. This is perhaps the 5th time you have accused thousands of scientists of lying and yet you have not supplied once iota of evidence to support your case.

Did you watch the tv show "House" last night? There is an idea that runs through many of the episodes. If there are several diagnoses possible they always pick the ones that are treatable. Why? Because if the person is dying of an untreatable condition then they have already lost. This is exactly the mode that creationists are in. They have lost if the evidence is not fudged so they pretend that the evidence is faked. It's the only choice they have.
 
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